IPA burnout

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Gadjobrinus said:
"Balance" is in the eyes of the beholder. In other words, for you, cool.

Oh, coming from Cali and cooking a ton of SW, bring it on.:ban:
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That is why I said people from out east. And that is a generalization, which I know I shouldn't do, but more often than not I get complaints from my midwestern and east living friends. People from out west seem to mostly love the hot stuff. Nothing better than a big bowl of Carne Adovada and a bottle of Project Dank.
 
Miraculix said:
Yesterday I had a landlord ale and I think I figured out what I do not like about British ales in general, at least about the ones I had here in the South of UK.

They are all painfully sweet to my German Pilsener influenced taste and I think I really really do not like the crystal malt character that they all show so highly accentuated. I heard you say that the ales from the north should be way dryer than the southern counterparts. What would you recommend as two or three (best would be easy to get here in the South) typical northern English ales?
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Tim Taylor beers are always difficult in cask, as the yeast works slowly and they need much more cellar conditioning than almost any other mainstream beer. Almost no pub gives it long enough in cask, and there's definitely been pints when the dominant flavour has been conditioning sugar. It's great when the cellarwork has been up to scratch but it's consistently the most underconditioned beer I come across. And it's a shame, because it's usually in pubs that are trying to make a bit of an effort on the cask front (it's the most expensive trad bitter in the wholesale market, so they're taking a bit of a hit to put it on the bar). I've not had the bottles in a while, can't imagine they're as good as well-kept cask but they're probably better than a lot of what you get in pubs.

And condition is vital for trad brown bitter - even the good ones only have a pretty short period of a few hours mebbe where they're truly great, they soon decline into "OK" and then into "why do people drink this stuff?".

It's tempting to send you to the Black Country to get a proper pint of Batham's Best, which is just glorious and a good example of the dry style of trad brown beer. There's a very slight hint of toffee sweetness to start with, but then it's all dry and bitter.

But you're not going to get Batham's locally - they keep distribution very tight so you pretty much have to go up to Stourbridge/Dudley/Wolverhampton to find it, the odd cask makes it to GBBF but that's about all. In terms of easy to find stuff, probably Black Sheep.

But I tend to think more in terms of the Manchester tradition which has its roots in pre-1981 Boddington's - paler than trad bitter, and much more dry and bitter. Modern Boddies just isn't the same (but again it's maybe worth trying just to get some idea, just realise that it's a pale shadow of what it was), things like Marble's Pint and Lees' MPA are pretty good attempts to bring together that tradition with a nod to modernity. I've seen MPA in supermarkets down south, they've started doing Pint in cans (after a bit of fuss about them being 500ml cans...). But it's merging into the pale n hoppy thing - you could argue that Boddies is the true ancestor of the APA, but there does seem to be a distinct Manc spin on it, they tend to have more pilsner and sugar in the grist (so lighter and drier), and are just that bit more bitter compared to many southern equivalents. I guess Track Sonoma is one of the benchmarks there. I know we're getting rather away from trad brown beers, but the whole Manc/Boddies thing is a notable regional style in its own right.
 
Not quite sure what you're asking about BU:GUs? In the .8s looks fine for a best, possibly a smidge high for a strong - the more bitter strong ones call themselves IPAs.

Gadjobrinus said:
"Balance" is in the eyes of the beholder.
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Not really. With beer it's pretty easy, there's four ingredients and you should be able to perceive all four of them in a balanced beer. The beholder may prefer the taste of an unbalanced beer, but that preference doesn't make the beer balanced.

Of course, a cuisine based on strong sauces is only necessary when there's a history of poor-quality and half-rotten meat - they didn't need to invent curry in Aberdeenshire or on Romney Marsh, because the local meat is so great on its own....
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Not quite sure what you're asking about BU:GUs? In the .8s looks fine for a best, possibly a smidge high for a strong - the more bitter strong ones call themselves IPAs.



Not really. With beer it's pretty easy, there's four ingredients and you should be able to perceive all four of them in a balanced beer. The beholder may prefer the taste of an unbalanced beer, but that preference doesn't make the beer balanced.

Of course, a cuisine based on strong sauces is only necessary when there's a history of poor-quality and half-rotten meat - they didn't need to invent curry in Aberdeenshire or on Romney Marsh, because the local meat is so great on its own....
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You'd commented on Mary's range of beers, using BU:GU and English bitters as a guideline. I was just asking if a ratio of 88 and 82.7 was a reasonable set for a best bitter and strong bitter, respectively. In other words, high 80's for a best, and low 80's, with the other "sweetish" elements I mentioned, for a strong.

On "balance," it was a bit of a riposte to Devin, who gave some slight to my use of the word. I'm really saying, to each his own, because quantifying taste - "a Parker 95 point Bordeaux is so much better than that lousy 89 point Burgundy!" - is useless, and I truly, truly loathe it. My cooking of haute cuisine was, for me, an act of love, and I'm serious. It's what drove me since I was 12 or so, to learn and master its traditions, and share, give it over. I got out because I couldn't do it any longer but more, because it deeply saddened me its cost meant not everyone could partake of it.

So, enough screwing around. Perhaps "fine" is a better word. "That's a fine pint" is all that matters in the, gullet, of the beholder.

Balance and cuisine. Yes. Just don't tell the French their haute cuisine isn't theirs, but rather Italian. "Balance" was brought to Henry II's court by an Italian lady by the name of Catherine de Medici. ;)

Edit: Adding, I have made many beers I, friends and family, judges (first and only entry, so that doesn't go far, admittedly) have enjoyed. To toot my own horn, Matt Brynildson once told me, "you have the touch. You should keep at it." I've lost the feeling I have a touch for much anymore. Bereft of a lot left as flotsam behind. I have to find what remains and try to smile and the pleasure it gives myself, and others.

So I could keep on going by what I do. But I have to tell you, as I love English ales, I'd like to steal the body and soul of the English palate, and English approach. So brother I will tap your knowledge, and that of your compatriots.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Tim Taylor beers are always difficult in cask, as the yeast works slowly and they need much more cellar conditioning than almost any other mainstream beer. Almost no pub gives it long enough in cask, and there's definitely been pints when the dominant flavour has been conditioning sugar. It's great when the cellarwork has been up to scratch but it's consistently the most underconditioned beer I come across. And it's a shame, because it's usually in pubs that are trying to make a bit of an effort on the cask front (it's the most expensive trad bitter in the wholesale market, so they're taking a bit of a hit to put it on the bar). I've not had the bottles in a while, can't imagine they're as good as well-kept cask but they're probably better than a lot of what you get in pubs.

And condition is vital for trad brown bitter - even the good ones only have a pretty short period of a few hours mebbe where they're truly great, they soon decline into "OK" and then into "why do people drink this stuff?".

It's tempting to send you to the Black Country to get a proper pint of Batham's Best, which is just glorious and a good example of the dry style of trad brown beer. There's a very slight hint of toffee sweetness to start with, but then it's all dry and bitter.

But you're not going to get Batham's locally - they keep distribution very tight so you pretty much have to go up to Stourbridge/Dudley/Wolverhampton to find it, the odd cask makes it to GBBF but that's about all. In terms of easy to find stuff, probably Black Sheep.

But I tend to think more in terms of the Manchester tradition which has its roots in pre-1981 Boddington's - paler than trad bitter, and much more dry and bitter. Modern Boddies just isn't the same (but again it's maybe worth trying just to get some idea, just realise that it's a pale shadow of what it was), things like Marble's Pint and Lees' MPA are pretty good attempts to bring together that tradition with a nod to modernity. I've seen MPA in supermarkets down south, they've started doing Pint in cans (after a bit of fuss about them being 500ml cans...). But it's merging into the pale n hoppy thing - you could argue that Boddies is the true ancestor of the APA, but there does seem to be a distinct Manc spin on it, they tend to have more pilsner and sugar in the grist (so lighter and drier), and are just that bit more bitter compared to many southern equivalents. I guess Track Sonoma is one of the benchmarks there. I know we're getting rather away from trad brown beers, but the whole Manc/Boddies thing is a notable regional style in its own right.
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Mate, honestly a great read. Thanks for all the Infos in there, much appreciated. I will be off for a long weekend in Germany now and after that I will try to get hold of one or two of the ones you have mentioned.

I never thought about the conditioning time when buying beer, except for ipas. My landlord was store bought and bottled, so I do not know whether it was good or not... Probably not. One day I will travel far north to see Schottland and maybe some pubs will cross my way during the travel ;)
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
Being technically correct is merely an artificial constraint. And if you feel compelled to make your beer conform to the technical demands of others, and seek their blessing before you can come to fully enjoy it yourself, it is also a sickness.
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I think it's really just homebrew nerds being homebrew nerds. I'm guilty of it too but not because I'm looking to conform to the demands of others. It is my beer afterall...
After about 5-6 years of brewing I'm looking to up my game. I've always dug my beer if it turned out well but I'm now trying to nail styles and actually learn the art of brewing. I don't think there's anything wrong with either school of thought. We just talkin beer over here! :mug:
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Of course, a cuisine based on strong sauces is only necessary when there's a history of poor-quality and half-rotten meat - they didn't need to invent curry in Aberdeenshire or on Romney Marsh, because the local meat is so great on its own....
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Not unlike Tabasco [brand] hot pepper sauce which was originally invented back in the days before refrigeration to disguise the taste of spoiled meat as it was putrifying. Once we start over-flavoring/over-hopping beer to disguise its true malty, yeasty essence, we've lost something.
 
Apart from a few individual experiences, I've never enjoyed IPAs. My brother brewed a batch called "pineapple express" from a kit, that was a really good beer, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head that didn't taste to me like new carpeting smells. Yeck. I live near a Lagunitas brewery in Chicago and they have a few good beers but most of their beers are, IMHO, overly hopped. I don't get the macho fascination with high alpha beers. It reminds me of those guys who sit around eating ghost pepper hot sauce that is clearly painfully hot, but they insist they enjoy it. Whatever floats ur boat I guess, Mr. Nippleclamps. I prefer estery, phenolic yeast character and a good, dry malty flavor.
 
I hear you..same thing happening to me..i still love a few IPA's but I'm losing the taste for the most part..lately I been all about balanced beers..i think its more of a challenge to brew a really nice balanced beer anyway so it drives me to become a better brewer...The IPA trend was fun but I'm over it
 
An actual "IPA" can be quite tasty. The 150 IBU paint remover that people are making, is a different story.

I can just imagine the brewers conversations... "hey Joe, this batch tastes like crap!" "No problem, throw another 20 pounds of cascade in it, and make up a cool name. Nobody will notice"

What's going to be fricken hilarious is when the extreme hop fad ends and brew pubs are going to have to make real beers with quality and balance to satisfy the customers. They will no longer be able to hide behind hops.
 
What would be an example for a classic ipa brewed like those from back in the days times when it was actually really brewed to last the long trip to India?
 
Miraculix said:
What would be an example for a classic ipa brewed like those from back in the days times when it was actually really brewed to last the long trip to India?
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I found this one in an article at byo.com. It's supposed to be an 1868 India Pale Ale. I guess 100 IBU isn't such a new idea after all.

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.067 FG = 1.015
IBU = 100+ SRM = 6 ABV = 7.1%

Ingredients
14 lbs. (6.4 kg) Maris Otter pale ale malt
51 AAU UK Goldings hops (90 min.) (10.25 oz./0.29 kg at 5% alpha acids)
3 oz. (85 g) UK Goldings hops (dry hop)
White Labs WLP017 (Whitbread Ale) or Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread Ale) or Safale S-04 yeast
2⁄3 cup corn sugar (if priming)

Step by Step
Mash grains with hot water (1.2 qts./lb.) at 150–152 °F (66–67 °C) for 1 hour. Run off and sparge to collect about 6 gallons (23 L) of wort. Bring to a boil and add the bittering hops, boil 90 minutes. Cool to 65–70 °F (18–21 °C) and pitch with yeast, preferably two packs prepared previously as two 1-qt. (1-L) starters. Ferment 5 days, rack to secondary and add the dry hops in a sanitized weighted muslin bag. After 1–2 weeks rack to keg or bottle and prime or carbonate in the usual way.

*This is a lot of hops, which will likely result in loss of wort in the residue when racked. I have used Goldings for this to follow the original as closely as possible. However, it is more practical to replace these with 29 AAU Progress hops (3.6 oz./102 g at 8% alpha acids).
 
I get the idea of burnout. I am actually losing interest in "chasing" the new styles. Don't really care about NEIPAs, milkshake ipas, etc. I kind of think the apex of the bitter IPA was Arrogant Bastard. Since then...meh. The last really hopped beers I made, IPAs of course, was a couple of years ago. Since then I have focused on trying to go back to more balanced and low ABV brews, with an emphasis on bitters and some lagers.
 
Devin said:
It is funny how irked people get by the IPA craze. I love IPAs. The more hops, the better. The more "unbalanced", the better. Sure, I like other beers also - but I will take a good, high IBU IPA over others most of the time.

People that complain about how "strong" and "out of balance" and "turpentineish" IPA's are remind of friends from out east that come and visit me here in New Mexico and complain about how intense and spicy our food is here. It's not my fault that your delicate senses can't handle the intensity. Quitchyerbitchin.

:D
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Cool story, bro.

Now can you at least envision why someone with a more refined palate might feel frustrated going to restaurant after restaurant after restaurant and finding that their only food options are:
1. any of 12 dishes smothered in habaneros,
2. soggy french fries, and
3. maybe a salad?

The problem isn't that hoppy beers exist (except when they're maliciously mislabeled, IE overproof IPAs sold as "barleywines") it's that they're so absurdly overrepresented in terms of actual commercial offerings and popular consciousness. There's no reason a bar shouldn't have a good IPA or two on, and there's no excuse for a bar with 6 India Whatever Whatevers out of 10 beer offerings and nothing on darker than an amber, not even Guinness.
 
I love IPAs so much I’m developing a new style I call Pilsner IPA. It’s basically a Pilsner malt bill, lager yeast, and German noble hops without restraint. Lots of late hops and a good steep. It’s fantastic!
 
IPA sales remain strong, at least they were for 2016, where IPA sales achieved huge growth and easily are way more popular than any other craft style. Note that there isn't a separate category for Imperial high ABV IPAs. Drinkers like to get wasted, one of the big reasons high ABV brews are popular.
It will be interesting to see the 2017 numbers, but I don't see the general public burning out on IPAs anytime soon.

https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/2016-top-selling-craft-beer-styles-us
 
SoCal-Doug said:
An actual "IPA" can be quite tasty. The 150 IBU paint remover that people are making, is a different story.

I can just imagine the brewers conversations... "hey Joe, this batch tastes like crap!" "No problem, throw another 20 pounds of cascade in it, and make up a cool name. Nobody will notice"

What's going to be fricken hilarious is when the extreme hop fad ends and brew pubs are going to have to make real beers with quality and balance to satisfy the customers. They will no longer be able to hide behind hops.
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Is real beer like true beer. Do you have a recipe? ;)
 
NoIguanaForZ said:
Cool story, bro.

Now can you at least envision why someone with a more refined palate might feel frustrated going to restaurant after restaurant after restaurant and finding that their only food options are:
1. any of 12 dishes smothered in habaneros,
2. soggy french fries, and
3. maybe a salad?

The problem isn't that hoppy beers exist (except when they're maliciously mislabeled, IE overproof IPAs sold as "barleywines") it's that they're so absurdly overrepresented in terms of actual commercial offerings and popular consciousness. There's no reason a bar shouldn't have a good IPA or two on, and there's no excuse for a bar with 6 India Whatever Whatevers out of 10 beer offerings and nothing on darker than an amber, not even Guinness.
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Ahh. Forgive me. I forgot that I am in the presence of people with such advanced palates. I not very sophisticated, ya see....

Oh, and there is a fine excuse why bars carry 6 India Whatevers and no ambers....money. The unsophisticated masses with sub-level sensory perception really enjoy the India Whatevers and buy the hell out of them and don't buy much of the darker beers.
 
California wine made the mistake of trying to dazzle judge's palates. Judges get palate fatigue, so winemakers had to hit the overdrive harder and harder. Enter Parker, who lauds this style of wine here and abroad and lo and behold, people who make this kind of wine make a lot of money. People who show restraint, who have an easy touch with the grape (I'm thinking in particular of pinot noir, a very delicate fruit and one that requires transparency), get left behind.

That's money. That's the market. It says nothing about the quality of a given palate, it only says that a given palate makes money.

I'm sick of overwraught, cloying, imbalanced beers. What you would call greatness, I believe. I'd like to get so many British ales I believe are exceedingly well crafted, and balanced; drinkable, balance. What you would call gutless, I believe. I'd like them, but the best chance I had, the local "premium" place that carries decent wine, spirits, etc., their beer rep said it's just impossible. "Everybody wants those hop bombs."

It's preference. Enjoyment. Zero to do with snobbery. I know I'll continue to ask for them, and try to make them.
 
Last week the owner of a local brewery was working the bar with a trainee. He handed us a tap list sheet. I sampled a cream ale and a stout. All the rest (10 ish taps) were noted as being mega hoppy in one form or another.

We chatted about brewing for a bit and here comes the two glasses. The cream ale was pretty good (had it been on nitro it would have been even better). The stout had enough hops to completely overpower every bit of malt. Honest to God, it was like drinking diesel fuel mixed with isopropyl alcohol with a few drops of coffee in it for aroma. I ordered a pint of the cream as we chatted more (I think he liked having a couple customers to hang out with, that could speak brewing).

He could tell I wasn't going to finish the stout sample and said "you aren't into the hop thing huh?" I explained its like thin crust pizza, it's just not my thing. He tells us "I been brewing for over 15 years. I love the small batches i do for my own consumption, but honestly, I can't drink any of this $hit. It's what sells so I make it". I asked if he has tried a simple Saison, Pilsner or Irish Red. He's said tried them all, but the kegs don't empty for months.

I ordered another cream and asked if IPA's are really that yummy to that many people or is it a fad". He thinks it's 50/50 and said to watch the people around us. See how many cringe as they drink, as if they just took a spoonful of pure tannin or shot some nasty cheap tequila. He said that many people just force themselves to swallow glass after glass. He pointed out a couple in a booth and said that the guy just ordered a "Quadruple IPA" for his lady friend. She was visibly angry and gagging after the first sip and the guy laughed. I said "So it's like sneaking a vomit flavored jelly bean into the candy dish or pranking a buddy" he said "Exactly!".

So... My opinions stand. Yes, some people dig it. Some just want to be cool, tough-guy or keep up with the Jones's. Kudo's to these brewers that learn and use basic supply and demand to earn a living. The "Pet Rock" sold millions. If people want it, take their money and smile all the way to the bank! It is not a "advanced palate" or snobby thing at all.
 
shoreman said:
There’s quite a few recipes in this book
https://www.brewerspublications.com...s-recipes-and-the-evolution-of-india-pale-ale

The amount of hops in those recipes is large - like a lb for 5 gallons and most of that is bittering.
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Ron Pattinson has dug up plenty of IPA recipes over the years, both on his blog and if you poke around Google Books - it's always courteous to buy a book if you're using the recipe though.

Although the weight of hops seems large, you have to remember that this would have been before the days of cold chains and protective atmospheres/mylar vacuum packs, so you have to wonder a bit as to what state the hops were in. In air at room temperature, the half life of alpha acids in hops can be less than six months.

Also you have to consider what varieties were being used - for instance Tolhurst was widespread in Mid Kent between the wars, and I've seen that analysed at just 2.2% alpha, it was definitely the "cheap and cheerful" hop with great yields of not so good hops (as well as a notoriously poor keeper). One would hope that as premium beers IPAs would get the premium hops like EKG, but when have big brewers ever taken the more expensive option....?

In terms of commercial beers - all the "original" ones have suffered through the 20th century and are now a pale shadow of what they were, your best bet are the breweries that make heritage recipes, such as the guys at the Burton museum and Beer Nouveau (who even made the infamous cock ale for IndyMan this year).
 
I finally tried a couple different styles in the last month, have to say I don't care for a brown, the tatanka from BJs restaurant is ok, Octoberfest is not bad, I really liked the Eliseian Punking. But I still preferred the taste of a good IPA
 
I guess in a way, IPAs have become the BMC of craft beer. Overshadowing all the the other great styles the can be had.

I love IPAs, and if my favorite breweries need to produce 70% IPAs to attract the trendy hipsters and turn a profit, I’m ok with that. I’ll still enjoy the other styles they offer.
 
Cool story, bro.

Now can you at least envision why someone with a more refined palate might feel frustrated going to restaurant after restaurant after restaurant and finding that their only food options are:
1. any of 12 dishes smothered in habaneros,
2. soggy french fries, and
3. maybe a salad?

The problem isn't that hoppy beers exist (except when they're maliciously mislabeled, IE overproof IPAs sold as "barleywines") it's that they're so absurdly overrepresented in terms of actual commercial offerings and popular consciousness.
Click to expand...

I like tasting my food with beer. The alcohol and flavors should complement or contrast with the food, not cover it up. That said, it's a hoot going to the local BuyRite and seeing half the beers sold off the shelf - they're IPA's of one sort or another. Grodziskie and saison ....yeah, it's there, but ya haft a dig to find it. At least I know the IPA's are fresh.
I laughed when the Indian owner had trouble pronouncing one of my favored German seasonal Festbiers - not openly, but afterwards, and now I'm afraid that might mean I'm a closet beer Nazi in need of rehab.
 
I agree completely with the sentiment that it is about personal preference and what you like. I think that is why a lot of us got into homebrewing in the first place - to experiment with things and make what you like. I just find it funny that people get so riled up about the IPA craze. In the end, who cares if there are a lot of IPAs out there? Why get so worked up about it? It doesn't change anything.
 
Calling IPA's "trendy" or a "fad" is ridiculous. I also think it's ridiculous to imply that many of the people drinking them are hipsters or doing it to be cool. Why would that even be a thing? Did I miss the Matthew McConaughey IPA commercial?

People drink IPA's because they're delicious and hops are awesome! If you disagree, there's a great thread floating around on here about True Beer (TM) that you might be interested in. :mug:
 
TimmyWit said:
Calling IPA's "trendy" or a "fad" is ridiculous. I also think it's ridiculous to imply that many of the people drinking them are hipsters or doing it to be cool. Why would that even be a thing? Did I miss the Matthew McConaughey IPA commercial?



People drink IPA's because they're delicious and hops are awesome! If you disagree, there's a great thread floating around on here about True Beer (TM) that you might be interested in. :mug:
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I have to agree with this
 
Man, I would never call IPA's a fad. Not with something that has such a storied history for centuries. I'm drinking a Goose Island IPA as I type this. I love the hell out of hops, too. It's a toss-up for me which turns me in to a dribbling idiot more, the smell of saccharification as the mash develops, or burying my head deep into the pile of hops freshly rubbed in my hands. Seriously. And I love all kinds of them. I'm just not a fan of a sort of competition to see who can cram the most IBU's into a beer, who can cram the most volatile oils into a beer, all while seeing how big an OG you can get. I find that easy, as I said earlier in the thread. I agree with Silver here: I like seeing the skill of a brewer at work, and one way is over a more lightly handled beer - no flaw can be hidden.

Let me say it this way. I love massive beers, if skillfully done. Best barleywine I've ever had was one crafted by my friend at the time, Jim Cibak, at Goose Island. You almost wouldn't know you were drinking a barleywine, till you were completely plowed and walking into the yeast brinks. It was subtle, a million flavors, a perfect mouthfeel and length, perfect hopping and malt balance. An incredible achievement (though Jim was one of the most gifted brewers I've ever known).

I myself brew a "Black Stag Imperial Stout" that comes in at about 13%.

I just object to the competition that frames itself around the things I mention above, over I guess what I'd call craftsmanship. That's my taste. But here I want to say my view of craftsmanship, my taste.

The market will do what the market does. Basically, let's all share a pint and history will decide itself, as it always has.
 
IPA's have been around a long time. Goose Island IPA is actually quite tasty and refreshing.

What most people are referring to here and other threads, has nothing to do with an IPA. It's those senseless and spine numbing 500 IBU hop bombs that erroneously use the title of "IPA". Or, taking any style in the book and hiking the hops so far beyond reality that not even a spectrometer wouldn't have a chance of detecting malt or any other flavor.
 
That's the great thing about being a homebrewer. You get to choose what to brew. IPAs are great, along with APA, Munich Helles, Porter, ESB, Pilsners, Milds etc. If you limit yourself to one style then it is no wonder you've burned out.
 
As I have posted here before I have yet to find an IPA that I like. I just spent a week in 3 different cities in NY and it was hard to find a beer on tap that was not an IPA. One pub had about 20 taps and probably 15+ were IPAs. I found some good beer but would have liked to have more selection Maybe it is a fad or maybe here to stay, only time will tell.
 
So it is a semantics thing? If they were called something else other than IPA, it would be ok?

I guess that I don't see that it completely masks every other flavor, neither. There is a relatively local brewery in Alburquerque, New Mexico called La Cumbre Brewing. They make some of the best IPAs that I have ever had. They are all super high on the IBU scale (100+), but they all have great malt character also, IMO. They also make a beer called Red RyeOT that they dub a malted magic "hop bomb". It has 75 IBU, and has incredible malt character, IMO. There are several other brews that I can think of that fit into this category as well.

Now, I can also think of several IPA hop bombs that suck. But, I can think of several of any type of beers that suck. There are just a lot of new breweries that seem to be opening without really having a solid understanding of good brewing techniques.
 

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