i have heard that the highest FG before bottling should be 1.015......

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

BelgianWannabe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
69
Reaction score
0
Location
Attleboro, MA
1.is this true?
2.does that include priming sugar?

main reason i ask is because i have a strong ale with a stuck fermentation, so when i opened the fermentor to add a little water (the stuff is syrupy!) and some yeast energizer, i put a little in my dark lager to prime it....aparently too much because the gravity jumped from 1.010 to 1.025.

should i be worried about bottle bombs?
 
Need more info.

I have had many beers finish above 1.015. Probably most of them have. However based on the recipe, mash temps and yeast choices, these results were expected.

For a strong ale it is possible, even likely, it would finish at 1.020 or so but you can also get one to dry out below 1.015. It all depends.

Priming sugar should add about 0.002 to your gravity. So it doesn't make a big difference in your reading.

Craig
 
Remember that your gravity reading is reading more than fermentable sugars. Its comparing the density of the liquid against distilled water, so you may be reading unfermentable sugars or particulates, yeast or other things that make your beer taste good.

There's no magic number, every beer will be different.
 
Are you saying you added yeast energizer and water, and it raised your gravity? That's not possible, so you must be taking your readings wrong. Even if you had added your priming sugar, it still would only raise the gravity by about 2-3 points, so a jump of 15 points means you are taking your readings wrong or you added several pounds of sugar.

Also, I just yesterday bottled a beer that had an FG of 1.020. It depends entirely on the OG and the yeast strain, higher staring gravities will yield higher final gravities for the most part. But, in general, most regular strength beers should probably be below 1.015.
 
If I understand the OP:
He's got 2 different batches 1- Strong ale (stuck) and 2-Dark lager (ready for bottling).
He tried to kreusen the dark lager with the strong ale and overdid it.

If the bottled beer ferments from 1.020 down to 1.010 it will be either a gusher or a bottle bomb.
But if the strong ale had a lot of unfermentables, it might only ferment down to 1.015
and be OK or just slightly overcarbed.

I would allow this new creation to ferment in secondary until it's done.
Then add the proper amount of corn sugar and bottle.
 
As far as the strong ale. How do you know it is stuck? How far off from Expected FG based on your mash and grain bill are you? What is the expected attenuation on the yeast? If your ferment is simply finished and not stuck then adding yeast energizer is a bad idea. How did you deoxygenate the water that you are adding? If you didn't you are adding oxygen to the wort. ooh.

You would have to add something like 15 gallons of 1.030 gravity beer to 5 gallons of 1.010 beer to raise the gravity from 1.010 to 1.025.

FWIW you seem to be in a little over your head to be attempting krausening. That is a very exact process that relies on yeast as well as sugar to achieve proper carbing. Without exact math you stand very little chance of just lucking into the proper CO2 volumes in your conditioned beer.
 
ok, to everyone who gave answers/advice, thank you.
to those who need clarification.
the strong ale is definately stuck, we worked on a project we read about in byo (reiterated mashing), that (supposedly) leads to better tasting (and clearer) beer, and much better mash efficiency.
it's a long process, involving doing one mash, and then using that wort to do a second mash.
23 pounds of base malt (american 2-row)
2 pounds of caramel 60 L
1 pound of rye malt
1 pound of munich dark malt
1 can of lyle's treacle
1 can of liquid malt extract
1 pound of honey

the OG was 1.120 -we were shooting for intense flavor and high alcohol -
and now it is at 1.070 (which to me says it is not done fermenting.....could be wrong)
fermented with a blend of a 4 different belgian strains that my buddy dave cultured and a vial of white labs super high gravity.

so i added some of the strong ale to the bottling bucket of my dark lager (5 cups of table sugar and a pound of dry light extract boiled for one hour for kettle caramelization, then added one can of hopped dark extract, dumped in a two liter of birch beer at the end of the boil.......i remembered reading about a guy who makes a batch with a bunch of mountain dew, so i figured i'd experiment.....fermented with cry havoc)
og 1.045
fg 1.010
when blended with unfinished strong ale
1.025

unfortunately i bottled first, came here second.
so, according to quite a few of you here, i have some serious bottle bombs.

so i guess the next question is, can i stop these bottle from exploding by keeping them in the fridge?
or do i just have to drink them all before they have a chance to carbonate further?
 
You could try to pasteurize the beer in the bottle.

Dude, you are way off the map.
In "here there be dragons" territory.

Start by reading "How to Brew" by Palmer. www.howtobrew.com
Brew a couple or 50 batches by following the recipes and using known ingredients.
Then try the wacky sh*t one idea at a time.
 
I am stunned. How big a batch is that strong ale? So you did a decoction mash. At what temps? What was the expected FG? Because if you aren't careful with a mash like that you can end up with a very high FG, much higher than the recipe FG. How long has it been in the fermenter. My strong Belgians take a total of 9 weeks before bottling. Did you even get full conversion, according to the iodine test, I mean?

How big a yeast starter did you build? 5 types of yeast seems excessive but that is just opinion.

Now to the Dark lager. Ok, so you were putting 1.070 wort into your beer for priming. What was your target CO2 volume? How many GU's did you estimate to be needed to get there? I estimate that for a five gallon batch with a gravity of 1.010 you would need approximately 9 - 10 GUs. 1.070 wort can deliver between 10 and 15 GUs per gallon depending on its fermentability. Did you really put between a gallon and a gallon and a half of the strong into the dark? If not, you might have misread the hydrometer.

The problem here is that we don't know the ultimate FG on the Strong to know how fermentable the primer is that went into the Dark. If it is not very fermentable you will be safe from bottle bombs but will have sickly sweet beer. If good and fermentable then the beer could get dangerous. In general, krausening is done from the next batch of the exact same beer.
 
this is f-ing hysterical. i'm laughing out loud. isn't this the beginners forum? i'm only on my 1st batch but i have read up quite a bit prior to starting and think i have a fair understanding of the process but this "experiment" sounds totally crazy! i have no idea what anyone is talking about and it sounds like there is potential for really bad things to happen.

Dude, you are way off the map.
In "here there be dragons" territory.

hysterical. keep this one going.
 
You could try to pasteurize the beer in the bottle.

Dude, you are way off the map.
In "here there be dragons" territory.

Start by reading "How to Brew" by Palmer. How to Brew - By John Palmer
Brew a couple or 50 batches by following the recipes and using known ingredients.
Then try the wacky sh*t one idea at a time.

alright man, i know how to brew, i've been doing it for two years.
the strong ale was an experiment based on something i read in byo called reitterated mashing. so the stuck fermentation is largely due to the wort being to thick (it's very syrupy).

i've fermented big beers before with much success....just not this time.

as for the carbonaton, using wort to carbonate was a new thing to me.... since the strong ale was 6 gallons, i figured i would use a gallon to carbonate my dark lager so if the yeast energizer started a vigorous fermentation i wouldn't have to set up a blow-off system
 
I am stunned. How big a batch is that strong ale? So you did a decoction mash. At what temps? What was the expected FG? Because if you aren't careful with a mash like that you can end up with a very high FG, much higher than the recipe FG. How long has it been in the fermenter. My strong Belgians take a total of 9 weeks before bottling. Did you even get full conversion, according to the iodine test, I mean?

How big a yeast starter did you build? 5 types of yeast seems excessive but that is just opinion.

Now to the Dark lager. Ok, so you were putting 1.070 wort into your beer for priming. What was your target CO2 volume? How many GU's did you estimate to be needed to get there? I estimate that for a five gallon batch with a gravity of 1.010 you would need approximately 9 - 10 GUs. 1.070 wort can deliver between 10 and 15 GUs per gallon depending on its fermentability. Did you really put between a gallon and a gallon and a half of the strong into the dark? If not, you might have misread the hydrometer.

The problem here is that we don't know the ultimate FG on the Strong to know how fermentable the primer is that went into the Dark. If it is not very fermentable you will be safe from bottle bombs but will have sickly sweet beer. If good and fermentable then the beer could get dangerous. In general, krausening is done from the next batch of the exact same beer.

it wasn't really a decoction mash....some experiment that a byo writer came up with.

you do your first mash and sparge, and then use the runoff (no boiling before adding) to mash a second grain bed.
we did half of the base malts and all the specialty grain in the first mash, and the rest of the base malt in the second.
mashed at 154 F (30 minutes for the first one.....the guy who wrote the article said all the sugars and enzymes would transfer into the second mash, and full conversion would occur....1 hour for the second, followed by a 15 minute rest at 148 F)

the target FG was in the 1.020 - 1.030 range

it wasn't a ridiculous amount of each yeast, dave cultures from every batch he does, and then he'll blend his favorite similar strains (he's got 5 strain english blend, and a blend he made of safale wheat yeast,fleishman's rapid rise baker's yeast and sweet mead/wine yeast......i realise these three are in no way similar.....but the blend makes a tasty strong ale), and seperate the blended cultures into jars for his friends.....he's pretty good about splitting it up so that each jar is roughly enough for a 5 gallon batch.

so we made a 1 liter starter with that culture and a vial of super high gravity from white labs.

now the dark lager....
i have no clue how to calculate Target CO2
i always (up until now) just read articles and did online research as to how much sugar or dme to add (as for proper "to style" carbonation).... or (sometimes) i'd just use carb tabs)
so even though i do know more than most folks here aparantly think i do about brewing, i am clueless about carbonation.

anyway i read about fermenting with wort or krausen beer.....i was intrigued, so even though i did not have a formula for doing so, i used the idea in a pinch......in hindsight, a terrible idea.
 
oh....and yeah, we did get full conversion.
and it has been in a fermentor for 3 months now......so we figured it was done fermenting, and we would just bottle and age it.....but after taking a hydrometer reading (and triple checking it) it was at 1.070
 
Ok. I apologize for my tone. I was going to do so anyway but it also turns out I made some poor assumptions.

What did you get as an Expected OG on your recipe? I got something like 1.157 for 6 gallons at 70% efficiency. That's not big that's HUGE! Your yeast just might have drowned in alcohol. Maybe you can go with an even higher alcohol tolerant yeast. What yeast do they use to make vodka? ;)
 
Ok. I apologize for my tone. I was going to do so anyway but it also turns out I made some poor assumptions.

What did you get as an Expected OG on your recipe? I got something like 1.157 for 6 gallons at 70% efficiency. That's not big that's HUGE! Your yeast just might have drowned in alcohol. Maybe you can go with an even higher alcohol tolerant yeast. What yeast do they use to make vodka? ;)

no need for apology sir, i just know many people here view me as undereducated, when really, i know what i am doing, most of the problems i come here with are just troubleshooting regarding new experiments.

the expected OG was something insane like what you came out with....but somehow it came out at 1.120 (which really makes no sense considering we were very careful about following every step/guideline in that byo article, and the test showed full conversion).

i have considered adding champagne yeast, and if that doesn't finish it, my last resort is turbo yeast (good for alcohol, bad for flavor.....but hopefully age can improve the harsh flavors that come from fermenting with turbo yeast)
 
Looking at your grain bill, you have plenty of fermentables in there. Going from a OG 1.120 to 1.070 still gives you approx. 6.5% alcohol and only 38% attenuation. I am not familiar with that mash process, so I would have no idea what your expected efficiency would be. Also with a mix of yeast strains, I'm not sure what the expected attenuation would be, as different yeast strains require different temp ranges. I am assuming that you did control fermentation temps but 3 months is a long time to be fermenting. Are you in the primary or did you rack into secondary?

If you're going to pitch more yeast, try and step up a large starter and pitch it high krausen to give the yeast a chance.

Experimentation is a two edged sword, it challenges you as a brewer, but it can costly. Let us know how it goes please.

Eastside
 
Looking at your grain bill, you have plenty of fermentables in there. Going from a OG 1.120 to 1.070 still gives you approx. 6.5% alcohol and only 38% attenuation. I am not familiar with that mash process, so I would have no idea what your expected efficiency would be. Also with a mix of yeast strains, I'm not sure what the expected attenuation would be, as different yeast strains require different temp ranges. I am assuming that you did control fermentation temps but 3 months is a long time to be fermenting. Are you in the primary or did you rack into secondary?

If you're going to pitch more yeast, try and step up a large starter and pitch it high krausen to give the yeast a chance.

Experimentation is a two edged sword, it challenges you as a brewer, but it can costly. Let us know how it goes please.

Eastside


yeah, we controlled the temp. 65 F, and when it seemed like it was slowing down, i ramped it to 70 for a few days (since belgian strains, and white labs S.H.G. are pretty temp tolerant).
after that, i racked it into secondary.
i know you're not really supposed to do a starter with dried yeast, so i have seriously considered just dumping in a packet of dry champagne yeast, and if that doesn't finish er off, the next step is definately another big starter with another vial of S.H.G.

i will definately keep you all updated.
 
How long in primary at 65 F? How long at 70 F before transfer? When you brought temp up did you swirl or stir it at all?

Anyway, good luck.

Eastside
 

Latest posts

Back
Top