Stuck kveik fermentation - should I bottle it?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
I brewed an IPA with Hornindal. OG 1.074. Expected FG 1.015. Added 2 teaspoons of White Labs yeast nutrient to boil. Splashed and shook vigorously to oxygenate. Pitched yeast at 86F, put in fermenter bag with some hot water bottles and let it ride.

I added dry hops on day 4. I planned to bottle it yesterday (day 6), but had a gravity reading of 1.026. I boiled up a bit of DME and yeast nutrient, added a teaspoon of yeast slurry to that, let it get started and then dumped it in the beer. Checked the gravity 36 hours later, still 1.026. Doesn't seem like it's going to move any further. It's now down to room temperature and I don't have a heat source to bump it up.

Against my better judgment, I followed David Keith's guide and did a massive underpitch. This beer was also a partial mash with 8 lbs of extract. So, I'm not shocked that it didn't attenuate.

Should I just go ahead and bottle it? I can live with the low ABV and high FG, but I don't want bottle bombs. I don't want it to sit on those dry hops much longer either though...

Thanks!
 
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
Nope, used a hydrometer 3 days in a row all the same reading. My guess is just that even with all the added yeast nutrient, extract brews don't work well with Kveik, and also I think I let the temp drop too quickly, but I don't have a heating pad at the moment, so couldn't prevent that. Oh well, it will certainly be full bodied.
 

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
4,694
Reaction score
4,115
I don't know why your fermentation stopped (if it did stop, and didn't just slow/pause) at 1.026, but n=1.
I wouldn't conclude (or even guess) from this that "extract brews don't work well with Kveik" in general. And I suspect its not the case, else lots of people would have reported the phenomenon by now.
 
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
I don't know why your fermentation stopped (if it did stop, and didn't just slow/pause) at 1.026, but n=1.
I wouldn't conclude (or even guess) from this that "extract brews don't work well with Kveik" in general. And I suspect its not the case, else lots of people would have reported the phenomenon by now.

I say that because of all the beers I've made with kveik, the all grains hit predicted final gravity, but the extracts finished way higher. They say kveik needs excessive nutrients and extract doesnt have much.
 

kartracer2

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
573
Reaction score
562
Location
Iowa,(westcentral)
I can't offer much help with your problem but using Lallermand dry Voss Kveik, out of 10 brews I got 80.9 AA and 14.6 FG average. All extract beers, pitched @ 90*/95*F, insulated and maintained till FG reached.
Cheers, :mug:
Joel B,
 

McMullan

wort maker
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
1,876
Reaction score
2,371
IIRC, according to non peer reviewed research published by Escarpment Labs, not all kveik have freaky biomass potential. 1.074 isn’t a huge OG and I’d expect most brewer’s yeast to get well below 1.026. I don’t use kveik, but just thought I reply to warn you about the risks of bottling this beer too soon. Personally, I’d just leave it where it is for a week or so then check the gravity again. If you insist on bottling before then use plastic bottles.
 

ncbrewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
4,826
Reaction score
1,513
Location
New Bern
I see from your earlier post that you've bottled it. I would be very careful with those bottles. I've even read accounts of bottles exploding while being opened, which should be lower pressure since they are cold. Apparently, the stress on the bottle neck from being opened can be substantial.
 
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20220219-174523_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20220219-174523_Chrome.jpg
    982.8 KB · Views: 27
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
I can't offer much help with your problem but using Lallermand dry Voss Kveik, out of 10 brews I got 80.9 AA and 14.6 FG average. All extract beers, pitched @ 90*/95*F, insulated and maintained till FG reached.
Cheers, :mug:
Joel B,

Cool, good to know!
 
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
IIRC, according to non peer reviewed research published by Escarpment Labs, not all kveik have freaky biomass potential. 1.074 isn’t a huge OG and I’d expect most brewer’s yeast to get well below 1.026. I don’t use kveik, but just thought I reply to warn you about the risks of bottling this beer too soon. Personally, I’d just leave it where it is for a week or so then check the gravity again. If you insist on bottling before then use plastic bottles.

I bottled it. Ive opened a couple bottles so far to see how its coming and its still pretty flat. But this is an IPA I intend to drink really quickly anyway.
 

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
4,694
Reaction score
4,115
Re: lack of FAN in extract...

John was talking about extract kits that, back in the day, had extracts with added sugars, which resulted in less FAN "per gravity," so to speak. I suspect he doesn't even mention it in the latest edition. Reputable modern extract manufactures like Briess, Muntons, etc, don't add sugar.
 

McMullan

wort maker
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
1,876
Reaction score
2,371
I bottled it. Ive opened a couple bottles so far to see how its coming and its still pretty flat. But this is an IPA I intend to drink really quickly anyway.

Then I’d say just be cautious until they’re gone. Incidentally, I haven’t used malt extract for a few years. I ran out of DME for starters so made a mini all-grain mash to prep my own starter wort. I noticed the yeast seemed to culture more efficiently. I believe fresh, all grain, wort is more nutritious than extract. They tasted very different, too.
 

Albionwood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
282
Reaction score
107
Some kveiks are sensitive about temperature changes. They will ferment fine across a pretty wide range, but they want to be kept fairly constant within that range during fermentation. The few times I've experienced lower attenuation with Voss have been when I didn't keep the temp constant.
Might have been low on DO as well, splashing doesn't really get you much DO in a warm high-gravity wort. This is mostly a problem if underpitching, because yeast needs the oxygen for growth.
 

McMullan

wort maker
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
1,876
Reaction score
2,371
All yeasts (all living cells, in fact) are sensitive to temperature changes. And, although it probably doesn't apply here, freaky biomass potential doesn't rely on DO levels in the way we understand. Other metabolic pathways are being expressed, in freaky mutants. Whether they're natural or engineered is an interesting question.
 

davidabcd

Detroit, Mi.
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
4,425
Does massively under pitching have anything to do with it?
Sounds like it had enough time to ferment. Personally, I wouldn't be worried about 1.026 FG as long as it was given a chance to finish.
 
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
Yup, I massively underpitched it. And I didnt apply active heating, just pitched at 86F and kept it insulated, so I'm sure that's largely responsible. I will probably get a heating pad for my next kveik batch.
 

kartracer2

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
573
Reaction score
562
Location
Iowa,(westcentral)
What are you considering a "massive" under pitch? I've yet to pitch more than 6g into my 5gal (1.064 to 1.085 OG) batches with good results. As far as heat, maybe, but once the ferment starts my heat pad is just along for the ride until it slows down, generally less than 3 days. Granted I start @ 90/95* F but it should still be happy @ 86* I would think.
Cheers, :mug:
Joel B.
 
OP
OP
M

mcleanmj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
43
Location
Halifax
I followed what David Heath proposed on YouTube, which is to dump the liquid yeast into a sanitized mason jar and put it in the fridge to settle out, then take a small spoon full of the yeast layer. So a very small fraction of the overall pouch for a 5.5 gal batch. Seemed insanely low to me. Maybe the low pitch rate led to low attenuation, but it definitely produced a lot of nice, intense flavors. Im drinking this one now and it is fruity. At first I thought it was too citrusy/tart like grapefruit peel, but its giving way to nice tropical flavors. Also, this beer has an 11 oz mix of galaxy and azacaa hops in it, which doesnt hurt.

Cheers
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
2,570
Reaction score
1,484
Location
Paremata New Zealand
I double the nutrient when using kveik. If no space in ferment chamber with heater then I cover it with a sleeping bag and exchange plastic milk cartons of hot water around it to keep it warm. I find that once kveik stops it drops and you might see one or two gravity point drops over the next few days.
 
Top