How's this for a jacketed fermenter?

[harpo]

Just finished welding the jacket on. Inlet port is lower, and has a pointed flow of around the keg. Outlet is full open.

Now time to hook up glycol in a chest freezer with a pump and solenoid. We'll see how it goes.

10 gallons is just over the top of the jacket. Should be able to maintain temp as well as crash cool overnight for filtering and carbonating.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

More details please! Looks great.

 

[harpo]

I got this idea after looking at some wine tanks. They only had a center section jacketed with glycol. I have heard they can keep the contents at fermentation temps relatively easily, as well as crash cool.

I basically started with two sections of 20GA 304 stainless steel 25.250" long and 7" wide. After putting the holes and dimple features into the pieces, and adding a 5° bend on the 25" sides both top and bottom, we pre-bent them around a 5 gal bucket to start the form. One side has the holes for the 1/2" couplings for goes-inta and goes-outa for glycol. Goes-inta is on the bottom with a directional flow. It basically is a coupling with an end on it, like a cap, but in the end which is inside the jacket it has a .125" slot milled into the side, thus allowing sideways flow of the glycol. The goes-outa is just an open coupler.

Each dimple is .225" high, inside to outside and has a .250" hole in it where the dimple is rosette welded to the wall of the keg. The 5° bends allow for the edge to be fused to the rib of the keg. It was pressure tested at over 25PSI with no deformation or leaks! I plan to run the glycol at about 5PSI to start, and the solenoid valve will be on the goes-outa (output) to avoid any lack of glycol in the jacket. The idea behind the staggered dimples is to induce turbulence and increse contact with all parts of the jacket before the glycol leaves and goes back to the reservoir.

Now I gotta hook it up and see if it works!

 

[horseinmay]

You win! Let us know how it performs.

 

[Layne]

Way cool project!

 

[baer19d]

Great Idea! How is the top of that fermenter made? Is that something you made yourself or did you buy it?

 

[weirdboy]

I got this idea after looking at some wine tanks. They only had a center section jacketed with glycol. I have heard they can keep the contents at fermentation temps relatively easily, as well as crash cool.

Hmm this is interesting to me because I can recall reading an interview with a head brewer for some commercial brewery, I think in Texas, who said the opposite of this. Basically he said that they had 20(?)BBL fermenters but the jackets only went up to something like the 15-17BBL level, and during the summer they had to make smaller batches, since the wort above that level in the fermenter wasn't the correct temperature and they got all kinds of off flavors as a result.

 

[harpo]

I thought the same thing about warm temperatures. Texas is an anomaly, because of the higher temps than where I am.
The fermenting wort will only be just above the jacket, as I indicated earlier. As fermentation goes on, the jacket will cool the upper ~5 gallons, which in turn will coll the lower wort by reverse convection.
Experimentation will show...

 

[WPStrassburg]

Are you worried about the coolant short circuiting with the connectors so close together? Any reason you didn't put them on opposite sides of the fermenter other than single sided access? How did you roll the pieces, slip roll or by hand? Great work and can't wait to see how it works

 

[kickrjason]

Man this is killer. would love to hear the outcome of this.

 

[outside92129]

Fantastic idea and work. Please post results when you get them.

 

[harpo]

Are you worried about the coolant short circuiting with the connectors so close together? Any reason you didn't put them on opposite sides of the fermenter other than single sided access? How did you roll the pieces, slip roll or by hand? Great work and can't wait to see how it works

Just following the original's configuration. Granted, I don't know exactly what else might be beneath its dimpled jacket, I am going to try this. I may also jacket my MLT and run hot water from the HLT during the mash.
Will it work? I'm just bored enough to find out.

 

[Navy_Chief]

Beautiful work, and a great idea.

I need to learn to weld..... And get some decent machining tools... and sheet metal tools.....

hmmm Christmas is coming....

 

[Wortimer75]

That looks awesome. Very jealous and interested in hearing your results.

 

[Atl300zx]

subscribed

 

[Ricand]

Just following the original's configuration. Granted, I don't know exactly what else might be beneath its dimpled jacket, I am going to try this. I may also jacket my MLT and run hot water from the HLT during the mash.
Will it work? I'm just bored enough to find out.

I'd be really surprised if you got any chilled glycol anywhere but right between the two ports. Since that will be the path of least resistance. I hope I'm wrong.

It looks awesome though and I'd love to have something like it to try. Would you consider selling those dimpled curved edge SS plates? I'd want them a bit longer to bend an end in for that separation plate with the inlet and outlet port on opposite sides. I'd need to find a local TIG dude though, I'm not thinking my MIG skills are up to that level.

I definitely would like to know how this works out for you in any event. It's a great attempt at an innovation in fermentors.

 

[oregonparamedic]

Looks like a great build. I personally wouldn't worry about the temperature gradient seen in a 20 barrel system. That's a whole different monster compared to 10 to 15 gallons. Kind of like comparing an icecube in a cup of coffee versus an entire pot.

 

[harpo]

So I searched for tanks similar to these and realized that the jacket is not all 360° around the tank. It is separated, having the inlet on one side at the bottom and the outlet on the top of the other side.

I am currently putting at divider plate between the inlet and outlet on the prototype. It won't be a complete seal, but close enough to make the outlet port the path of least resistance. The next one will have the split between the inlet and outlet and we will have the divider welded completely.

Thanks for the questioning of the separator!

 

[Stevo2569]

Awesome project. I've been working on something similar with copper coil around it. I like the jacket idea a lot better. Any update on this?

 

[wyzazz]

This is awesome, how did I miss it??!!! I ferment in Sanke Kegs and would love to do something like this. Keep a tub of glycol in a chest freezer with a pump to kick on/off based on the temps needed. I'm very interested in how this worked out for you.

 

[brinkdadrink]

This looks great. Any update on how well it worked?

 

[ryan_george]

Do you need to back-purge the inside of the keg at all?

 

[wrench]

If it works well, I would also be interested in buying a "kit" for this jacket system to have welded onto my keg by a local guy.

 

[wyzazz]

Do you need to back-purge the inside of the keg at all?

I can't see why, you're not welding on the inside of the keg. Maybe on the outside of the keg if you're really looking to keep it clean but I don't think it would be necessary. Your coolant/glycol isn't ever going to come in to contact with the stuff inside of your keg.

 

[wyzazz]

I wonder if something like this could be made with some gaskets (silicone?) integrated so you could just maybe ratchet strap it on to a keg, making for a "weldless" installation. It wouldn't even need to be made of Stainless. Some sort of pre-formed hard plastic with the gaskets glued on.

 

[Stevo2569]

I wonder if something like this could be made with some gaskets (silicone?) integrated so you could just maybe ratchet strap it on to a keg, making for a "weldless" installation. It wouldn't even need to be made of Stainless. Some sort of pre-formed hard plastic with the gaskets glued on.

Good idea. Get to work on it and post some pics.

 

[wyzazz]

Good idea. Get to work on it and post some pics.

Right! I'll put it in line right behind my Electric Build, Randall Build, Arcade Machine Build, Project Car, Finishing the Kegerator & Finishing the House.

We should have something for you come 2024

 

[SAMBUCA]

If it works well, I would also be interested in buying a "kit" for this jacket system to have welded onto my keg by a local guy.

Ya hurry up were all waiting.LOL

 

[ryan_george]

I can't see why, you're not welding on the inside of the keg. Maybe on the outside of the keg if you're really looking to keep it clean but I don't think it would be necessary. Your coolant/glycol isn't ever going to come in to contact with the stuff inside of your keg.

If the stainless gets hot enough it'll start to oxidize on the inside if there's no protective atmosphere. It's not an issue of the coolant touching the oxidized steel but rather your precious wort/beer inside. But I suppose a skilled weldor might be able to prevent this... Just curious what the OP did.

 

[wyzazz]

If the stainless gets hot enough it'll start to oxidize on the inside if there's no protective atmosphere. It's not an issue of the coolant touching the oxidized steel but rather your precious wort/beer inside. But I suppose a skilled weldor might be able to prevent this... Just curious what the OP did.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Weldor, just trying to think through the process. I could quite possibly be talking out of my rear end. I just couldn't see any reason for purging the inside of the keg.

 

[harpo]

Man, you guys are relentless!!

I purged the keg with argon to minimize any affect the welding had on the interior, and then we used a stainless wire wheel to brush the interior bright and clean and then used a surf-ox machine to eliminate any contamination.

I have yet to try it with glycol. I will have an opportunity here in the next month or so. I have actually decided to go pro. In reality, I decided to go pro 2 years ago, so after 2 years of planning and testing and building things like this things are coming to fruition and we should be opening up in April or May!!!

As soon as I test this setup on glycol I will post up if it works with 10Gal batches.

 

[Stevo2569]

Awesome. Its cool that you've gone pro. Big Choice is a cool name.

 

[wyzazz]

That's great! I wish you the best of luck!!! And definitely report back on how that cooling jacket works.

 

[maida7]

Why not just put the fermenter in a temp controlled refrigerator?

 

[harpo]

Why not just put the fermenter in a temp controlled refrigerator?

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the jacket?

For my purpose, I wanted one centralized cooler/freezer with a 10 gallon batch of glycol at 27 degrees. From the cooler I would pump the glycol to multiple fermenters in one area. Therefore, instead of trying to build a homemade cooler to house all my fermenters, I just put them all on a rack connected to the glycol loop.

 

[maida7]

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the jacket?

For my purpose, I wanted one centralized cooler/freezer with a 10 gallon batch of glycol at 27 degrees. From the cooler I would pump the glycol to multiple fermenters in one area. Therefore, instead of trying to build a homemade cooler to house all my fermenters, I just put them all on a rack connected to the glycol loop.

How many fermenters? A sanke keg will fit in a fridge, no problems. Get one fridge per fermenter. Add a temp controller to each fridge and you can dial in each fermenter. Quick, easy, No glycol needed, No welding or modifications are needed for the fermenters. This is how I ferment (15.5 gal sanke in a fridge). Obviously there are more ways to skin a cat but I'm not sure I would try to jacket a tiny fermenter when you can use a fridge. Refrigerators work very well at this scale. Now if your doing anything larger then 1 BBL fermenters, the glycol system is probably the best solution.

 

[harpo]

How many fermenters? A sanke keg will fit in a fridge, no problems. Get one fridge per fermenter. Add a temp controller to each fridge and you can dial in each fermenter. Quick, easy, No glycol needed, No welding or modifications are needed for the fermenters. This is how I ferment (15.5 gal sanke in a fridge). Obviously there are more ways to skin a cat but I'm not sure I would try to jacket a tiny fermenter when you can use a fridge. Refrigerators work very well at this scale. Now if your doing anything larger then 1 BBL fermenters, the glycol system is probably the best solution.

I'm not sure which fridge style you are looking at, but a garage full of upright refrigerators would leave little room for anything else. I regularly would have 4-6 sankes in various stages of fermentation/secondary/chilling. Prior to this idea I used one 7cuft chest freezer to chill the beer to 30 degrees for filtering and carbing. That means at least 24 hours in the chest freezer to get it down to that temp. With the glycol setup, once the beer is ready to drop, I set the temp and go. No waiting for room in one chest freezer.

It was all about space for me. It may not be what works in your house, but it was for me.

Cheers!

 

[ajm163]

I don't think the current number of Fermenters is the point.... If you plan to scale buying a new fridge every time you want to add a fermenter is just not a sustainable both from a cost and floor space angle. The idea is to have a scalable solution.... using the jackets and Glycol all you would have to do to add another fermenter is hook up the glycol lines. Yes having a fridge for 1 or 2 fermenters is easier.... but are you going to have 25 fridges for 25 fermenters i think not

 

[maida7]

I'm not sure which fridge style you are looking at, but a garage full of upright refrigerators would leave little room for anything else. I regularly would have 4-6 sankes in various stages of fermentation/secondary/chilling. Prior to this idea I used one 7cuft chest freezer to chill the beer to 30 degrees for filtering and carbing. That means at least 24 hours in the chest freezer to get it down to that temp. With the glycol setup, once the beer is ready to drop, I set the temp and go. No waiting for room in one chest freezer.

It was all about space for me. It may not be what works in your house, but it was for me.

Cheers!

40-60 gallons is a lot of beer to have fermenting (for a home brewer). How often do you brew? If your going pro you should really consider much larger fermenters. And larger batches just to save time and keep up with demand. I'm also looking to go pro but I'd consider a 3bbl system the minimum size to start with.

As a home brewer, I only have one or two (10 gallon) batches going at a time so I can get by with one fridge. I also don't cold crash or filter. I rack the beer from the fermenter to the keg at ambient temps. I get some yeast in my kegs but it doesn't really bother me. If I was really concerned with clarity I'd probably use finings

 

[maida7]

I don't think the current number of Fermenters is the point.... If you plan to scale buying a new fridge every time you want to add a fermenter is just not a sustainable both from a cost and floor space angle. The idea is to have a scalable solution.... using the jackets and Glycol all you would have to do to add another fermenter is hook up the glycol lines. Yes having a fridge for 1 or 2 fermenters is easier.... but are you going to have 25 fridges for 25 fermenters i think not

First off you can get a fridge for 50.00 on craigslist. Sometimes you can get them for free.

I must have missed the part where you talked about having 25 fermenters.

Having 25 tiny fermenters vs 2 or 3 larger fermenters. Are you pro brewing or home brewing? If your going pro it makes more sense to have 2 or 3 big ones. At least that's my opinion.