How much oxygen gets introduced to the wort when you add the grains?

[kohalajohn]

It has been found, purging helps, but can't stop what is already trapped in the crushed grain. Your best weapons are YOS/preboil, slow underletting of the strike water/gentle slow introduction of the grain and use of sulfites.

What is YOS?

 

[mac_1103]

Yeast Oxygen Scavenging. Mentioned above in #17. Just a bit of sugar and baker's yeast in your brewing water the night before you brew.

 

[mabrungard]

My indirect assessment of oxygen pickup sources during mashing was that dough in is not a large source, but the oxygen in the mashing water is a significant source. I came to this conclusion by measuring sulfite content (from SMB use) in the wort at various stages and by performing a stoichiometric calculation on dissolved oxygen in hot water (at mashing temperature).

The calculation showed that the hot mashing water still had a significant dose of DO and that performing deoxygenation of that water prior to combining with grain was a very good idea. The sulfite measurements during the mash didn't have a huge drop upon dough in, so my limited assessment suggests that dough in is not a big deal. But I do agree that underletting the mash and avoiding adding grain to water and stirring is most appropriate for reducing oxygen pickup.

 

[kohalajohn]

I have just started the practice of boiling and chilling the strike water. Quite easy to do. I was amazed how quickly my Jaded ic brought down the temperature. With no sugar in the water to hold heat, chilling to strike temp was just a few minutes.

 

[Miraculix]

I have just started the practice of boiling and chilling the strike water. Quite easy to do. I was amazed how quickly my Jaded ic brought down the temperature. With no sugar in the water to hold heat, chilling to strike temp was just a few minutes.

Why not use a bit of yeast and sugar instead, not wasting energy and getting rid of all O2 in about half an hour? Boiling leaves a bit behind.

 

[BrewerofBeers]

Good idea. I use about 1 gram per gallon each of instant bread yeast and granulated sugar. I use an electric kettle so it's easy to set the temp at around 105F and let them prepare the water. Yeast is like magic!

 

[Tartan1]

Question with regards to using YOS method for strike/sparge water. If using RO water are mineral additions added before or after O2 is removed?

 

[kohalajohn]

Good idea. I use about 1 gram per gallon each of instant bread yeast and granulated sugar. I use an electric kettle so it's easy to set the temp at around 105F and let them prepare the water. Yeast is like magic!

One gram of yeast and one gram of sugar? And half an hour after pitching in warm water?

Seems simpler.

 

[Miraculix]

One gram of yeast and one gram of sugar? And half an hour after pitching in warm water?

Seems simpler.

My process is heating the water up a bit to about 30C to increase yeast activity, throw in a hand full of sugar, one pack of bread yeast and wait for up to an hour. Should be done after 30 minutes though. Just stir a bit to dissolve the sugar and distribute it equally wihtin the pot.

 

[Miraculix]

Question with regards to using YOS method for strike/sparge water. If using RO water are mineral additions added before or after O2 is removed?

Before, as you might have to stir to dissolve the minerals.

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes, I add the minerals before I add the yeast/sugar so vigorous stirring does not count against you. If you are doing the 30 minute prior approach instead of overnight, you might want to go up towards 2 gram per gallon just to ensure the job is completed in the short amount of time. The extra amount of cells has no negative impact on your mash/boil/beer.

 

[Broothru]

Question with regards to using YOS method for strike/sparge water. If using RO water are mineral additions added before or after O2 is removed?

My protocol is to perform the YOS the night before brew day. Simple process: 10 gallons in the AIO, set temperature to 95F-104F. Add 20 grams of dextrose and 20 grams of baker’s yeast when the temperature is reached.

Then do the night-before prep (measure out grains and brewing salts). After an hour, turn the power off and go to bed. The YOS is active until the yeast quits fermenting, up to 4 or more days. Next morning, turn on the power to the AIO, crush the grains and mash-in. In theory, the water has virtually zero D.O.

The brewing salts, including 2 grams of Trifecta, get added and recirculated just before adding the crushed grains. Since the YOS gets denatured as mash temperature increases, the Trifecta takes over the heavy lifting of deoxygenation throughout the mash and boil.

The water additions as well as the Trifecta do of course alter the water chemistry, and I account for them when calculating the water adjustments for mash. I calculate that Trifecta adds 7 ppm Na and 26 ppm SO4 to my overall water: 10 USG water, 1.8 grams Trifecta.

 

[Bassman2003]

Warms my heart to see this being discussed on Homebrew talk! It really does make great beer and simple to implement as well.

 

[kohalajohn]

So for my three gallon batches and with 5 grams in a teaspoon it seems that one tsp sugar and one tsp yeast would do.

And I should add my Brewtan and SMS at the same time I add the sugar and yeast, so my stirring happens before the lodo stage.

 

[BrewerofBeers]

So for my three gallon batches and with 5 grams in a teaspoon it seems that one tsp sugar and one tsp yeast would do.

And I should add my Brewtan and SMS at the same time I add the sugar and yeast, so my stirring happens before the lodo stage.

Add the SMS right before mashing in, after the yeast cleaned up the water, because the SMS will inhibit yeast activity.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

My normal protocols are Yeast Oxygen Scavenging (YOS) and adding 1.8 grams Trifecta per 10 gallons of strike water.

The YOS treatment gets done the night before brew day, and supposedly will continue to reduce dissolved O2 to “barely measurable levels” for several days, or until it gets denatured early in the mash.

The Trifecta gets added with the brewing salts and calculated acidification just prior to mash in. It’s been so successful for me that I no longer bother with underletting the strike water. There’s no D.O. in the strike water, and the Trifecta takes care or any O2 pickup during the actual mashing.

In the two years I’ve been doing this, my beers have shown amazing shelf life, though hoppy beers still tend to fade a bit with time. But staling of the beer and its associated off-tastes get held off for months. It’s been a while since I’ve had a ‘dumper’ due to sherry-like or ‘wet cardboard’ from an older beer.

I tend to brew mostly lighter ales and Continental lagers, which tend to not age gracefully and leave no cover for flaws. Off-flavors from oxygen staling would be easily noticeable.

how many PPM SMB do you shoot for? I do 20ppm and have been happy with results. More than that I was getting some sulfur post fermentation. I underlet (not too slowly) and yeast scavenge the strike wat. I also do no sparge brewing and do not recirculate, so my O2 pickup is minimal. No mash caps either.

I busted my DO meter so haven't taken a reading in awhile. I was always at < 1ppm when I took readings in the past though.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

fwiw, I don't know about hot-side applications but when I started adding a teaspoon of AA dissolved in 30ml of water to my kegs the shelf life easily doubled. I'm enjoying hazy dipas that are still fully alive five months in the keg...

Cheers!

I add 1g ascorb powder per gallon with any beer I dry hop. My shelf life has been excellent! I also prime my kegs with sugar to carbonate which I believe helps too.

I don't know if the ascorbic is doing anything or if its the O2 scrubbing from the yeast. However, I haven't had off flavors from the ascorbic and the beers are great...so I just continue to do it!

My next beer is going to be an American Barleywine that will be dry hopped. Debating if I want to use the ascorbic with the dry hop. When young I wouldn't mind it drinking super hoppy for a bit, but I do eventually want some micro oxidation.