How early to make starter culture? +2 other questions

[bosster01]

New brewer here - 3 brews under my belt.

I made my first starter culture last brew using the intermittent shake method. I have now made a stir plate/purchased a stir bar so on my next culture I will be using those.

My question is say for example I'm simply doing a 1 L starter using a Wyeast smackpack for a 1.055 OG (I'm making the Uncle's root beer kit from NB) beer.

HOW early should I make it? My method has been cold crashing and decanting off the liquid before pitching the slurry.

Should I let the starter culture go for 12, 18, 24, 48 hours? I haven't been able to find a good source.

Also if I were to step up the culture - typically how long does one wait before stepping up a culture?

And to hijack this post - if I wanted to make the OG higher for this beer to get a higher ABV - what would you recommend I add? (extra LME, vs DME, vs sugar idk)

Additional hijack - this beer calls for adding the root beer extract and and some sugar after primary fermentation is complete (kit says 2 weeks). I've been reading about whether or not to use secondary... seems like people are undecided. Since I'm adding these ingredients am I required to use a secondary in order to mix it up? Or can I just pour it in after 2 weeks, swirl it a bit, and then bottle it 2 weeks later.

Thanks for the help!

 

[BUCKNUTS]

New brewer here - 3 brews under my belt.

I made my first starter culture last brew using the intermittent shake method. I have now made a stir plate/purchased a stir bar so on my next culture I will be using those.

My question is say for example I'm simply doing a 1 L starter using a Wyeast smackpack for a 1.055 OG (I'm making the Uncle's root beer kit from NB) beer.

HOW early should I make it? My method has been cold crashing and decanting off the liquid before pitching the slurry.

Should I let the starter culture go for 12, 18, 24, 48 hours? I haven't been able to find a good source.

Also if I were to step up the culture - typically how long does one wait before stepping up a culture?

And to hijack this post - if I wanted to make the OG higher for this beer to get a higher ABV - what would you recommend I add? (extra LME, vs DME, vs sugar idk)

Additional hijack - this beer calls for adding the root beer extract and and some sugar after primary fermentation is complete (kit says 2 weeks). I've been reading about whether or not to use secondary... seems like people are undecided. Since I'm adding these ingredients am I required to use a secondary in order to mix it up? Or can I just pour it in after 2 weeks, swirl it a bit, and then bottle it 2 weeks later.

Thanks for the help!

a 1 litre starter will generally be done in 12-18 hours. I have never made a hard root beer but I would guess sugar would be best it'll ferment out more completely. I rack any beer I am planning to do additions to in to a secondary fermenter. Everything settles out in primary then you're going to swirl it all back in to suspension? I think that's counter productive personally. I'm sure the never rack to secondary group will disagree.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

good info on yeast starters.
http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php

 

[Brew_Meister_General]

Should I let the starter culture go for 12, 18, 24, 48 hours?

24 hours is whats advocated by those who work at Wyeast, you should be able to find an instructional video on youtube, that's where I found out.

After that its best to place the container in the fridge (or in my case, a cool box filled with ice packs) to settle the yeast over night before decanting the wort in the next day and then letting the yeast remaining at the bottom gradually come to room temperature.

So if you're brewing saturday, it's best to get it ready Thursday evening before chilling it Friday night.

 

[bosster01]

Thanks, and I appreciate the link.

So then would you advocate if I were to step up a starter would I need to have a night in the fridge in between decanting off the spent wort?

OR do you just add extra volume for the "step up" without decanting?

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Thanks, and I appreciate the link.

So then would you advocate if I were to step up a starter would I need to have a night in the fridge in between decanting off the spent wort?

OR do you just add extra volume for the "step up" without decanting?

I cold crash and decant when stepping up starters

 

[Brew_Meister_General]

Thanks, and I appreciate the link.

So then would you advocate if I were to step up a starter would I need to have a night in the fridge in between decanting off the spent wort?

OR do you just add extra volume for the "step up" without decanting?

Well I suppose the idea of a step up is that you can't fit the advocated volume of water+DME into the designated vessel and therefore have to do it in steps, so it would be the same approach of cold crashing, decanting, warming and then adding the next starter wort.

If you do have extra space in your vessel its often said that a lower gravity starter (i.e. 1.030 - 1.035) produces healthier yeast, so if you are doing steps then that will probably give you some extra room for water.

For example, if like me you use a 5ltr demijohn for intermittent shaking then 4ltr is the highest I'm willing to push it, if the calculator came out at 4.2ltr then I'd probably do a step starter and add more water to each to get the gravity closer to 1.030, meaning I'll be doing two 3ltr steps (instead of two 2.1ltr steps).

 

[bosster01]

I have a gallon jug that I use for making cider than I could repurpose for starter cultures.

I've only made 1 starter so far, and I used the canned wort stuff that they sell at northern brewing called "fast pitch" (once I run out I'll start making my own wort).

I'm a little confused about how your starter relates to your gravity? I assumed you'd have a gravity of ~ 1.30-1.40 no matter the size (the fast pitch is already at that level)

FOR example I'm making the 1.055 OG Your Uncle's Root Beer next weekend (extract kid, I'm going to get into partial mash next time).

Based on Mr Malty my pitch rate should be: (I made the production date of this hypothetic yeast to be 2 weeks prior because that's what I've been getting)

192 billion cells
Which I can get simply by doing 1 smack pack in 1 liter using a stir plate

BUT let's say I was using a simple starter with no stir plate or intermittent shaking.

Now the calculator says:
192 billion cells
1 smack pack
2.07 liter.

What is my available volume was only 1 Liter? Could I make that many cells?
Based on the graph from Jamil - found at this link (didn't want to post it directly due to copyright concerns) : http://homebrewacademy.com/stepping-up-a-yeast-starter/

The most cells I can make from a 1liter starter with 1 smack pack is 150 billion so what do I do?

This example doesn't really explain what I'm trying to get it. I apologize for my tangential thought process.
-Would this be an example of stepping up
I need 300 billion cells I have 1 smack pack, and a 2 liter vessel.
-I would pitch the smack pack into 2 liter
-Decant after cold crashing overnight
-Then repitch the slurry which is now @ 200 billion according to the graph into 2 litters of new wort which would then make me at 300 billion. That's the essence correct?

 

[bosster01]

I think I figured out the answer using a different calculator from:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

This calculator seems way better than MrMalty. On that note do you guys select the PRO pitch rate of .75 or MFG recommended of .5?

Anyways here is what it says for the 1 Liter scenario I described above

 

[Brew_Meister_General]

This example doesn't really explain what I'm trying to get it. I apologize for my tangential thought process.
-Would this be an example of stepping up
I need 300 billion cells I have 1 smack pack, and a 2 liter vessel.
-I would pitch the smack pack into 2 liter
-Decant after cold crashing overnight
-Then repitch the slurry which is now @ 200 billion according to the graph into 2 litters of new wort which would then make me at 300 billion. That's the essence correct?

What you would do is pitch the smack pack into the starter wort, wait about 24 hours (maybe more, maybe less), cold crash, decant, cook up another starter and then simply add that on top of the yeast at room temperature. To be honest when doing a step up you probably don't need to cold crash before decanting as any remaining wort in the vessel shouldn't make a difference, all it would do is slightly dilute the sugars.

Mr Malty and Brewers Friend use a standardised gravity of around 1.036 for when calculating the volume of wort needed for the starter although if you use Brew United (http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php) then it gives you more to work with including gravity and it calculates your steps for you as well, I'd say its the best of the 3.

Also, the thing about using an erlenmeyer flask is that you can only fill it up to 3/4 full so theres head room for oxygen and the likely case of a yeast eruption. To be honest a 2l flask generally won't be big enough for home brewing and so a 5l flask would be essential and resolve all and any complications a small flask would render.