How can I save save money with yeast washing, harvesting and/or starters?

[elessarjd]

Hello!

So I'm 4 batches into my new hobby (obsession) and so far so good, but I'm looking to cut costs. The most expensive part so far seems to be the yeast. I've been looking up how to harvest or wash yeast and store it in mason jars. My question is how do you go about using the yeast from these jars? I've never made a starter because I'm only doing 1 gallon batches. Actually, I've only used partial packets / vials because of how small the batches are. I use online calculators to determine how many cells per gram I need for my batch, but with these yeast jars I wouldn't even know where to begin to determine how many cells are in there, how much of the yeast to use, how much of it is still alive (like the born on date calculations for vials). Without being able to input precise information in the calculators I'm not sure what to do or basically how much to use. Any help to understand would be appreciated!

 

[peterj]

I believe actually washing the yeast isn't really recommended. I've read that it's better to just scoop some out and include a little bit of the beer to cover it, then refrigerate it. It keeps the yeast healthier and is less likely to develop infection this way.

Jamil's yeast calculator has a repitching from slurry tab on it that I think would work well for what you need: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html.

Hope this helps!

 

[unionrdr]

I believe actually washing the yeast isn't really recommended. I've read that it's better to just scoop some out and include a little bit of the beer to cover it, then refrigerate it. It keeps the yeast healthier and is less likely to develop infection this way.

Jamil's yeast calculator has a repitching from slurry tab on it that I think would work well for what you need: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html.

Hope this helps!

Wrong. You're not literally washing the yeast,but separating the trub from the yeast. It doesn't hurt anything whatsoever by washing it. You don't want the darker trub/dead yeast cells in the new wort. Just the light,cream colored yeast. See mine & other Articles about yeast washing...

 

[JustLooking]

Rinsing, not washing.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I believe actually washing the yeast isn't really recommended. I've read that it's better to just scoop some out and include a little bit of the beer to cover it, then refrigerate it. It keeps the yeast healthier and is less likely to develop infection this way.

Anyway, this is what I do now. I don't rinse the yeast cake. I pick up the fermenter once the beer is racked out, and pour the slurry into 3 or 4 mason jars. One pint jar is usually enough for 10 gallons, but I do use mrmalty.com's yeast pitching calculator to make sure.

There isn't any work at all involved, and no trouble at all. I generally get 5 10 gallon batches out of that, if I don't save future yeast cakes the same way. If I save the future cakes as well, I would save much more $$$$ but I only have enough room in my yeast fridge for about 10 jars of saved slurry.

I don't bother washing yeast myself, I just collect and re-pitch the yeast slurry from the fermenter.

 

[zeekage]

Wrong. You're not literally washing the yeast,but separating the trub from the yeast. It doesn't hurt anything whatsoever by washing it. You don't want the darker trub/dead yeast cells in the new wort. Just the light,cream colored yeast. See mine & other Articles about yeast washing...

Wrong??? You're putting the yeast in an environment much more susceptible to infection by doing this. The yeast have built a natural protective barrier for themselves (the beer) and you're removing that and replacing it with water. This guy know's MUCH more about it than I do though, so don't take it from me. The cold hard truth about rinsing yeast with boiled water

There's also a thread or two somewhere about separating the trub and dead yeast that found that a large percentage of your good yeast ends up down there too, so you're also lowering your cell count which could be detrimental to your batch of beer due to under pitching. There really shouldn't be THAT much dead yeast in a reasonably healthy yeast cake anyway.

 

[peterj]

Wrong. You're not literally washing the yeast,but separating the trub from the yeast. It doesn't hurt anything whatsoever by washing it. You don't want the darker trub/dead yeast cells in the new wort. Just the light,cream colored yeast. See mine & other Articles about yeast washing...

I am not wrong. Beer is a much better environment for yeast to be in than water. It has a lower pH which is preferred by the yeast and helps reduce the chance of bacterial growth. Also, there's no reason you have to seperate the trub. In fact the dead yeast will only provide further nutrients for the live yeast. So when you rinse/wash yeast you are removing them from the comfortable environment that they worked so hard to create for themselves, and doing a lot of work for no benefit and perhaps even some detriment.

 

[unionrdr]

In my experiences thus far,even rinsing out the trub in water soaks out some of the beer absorbed by the yeast. The water definitely doesn't stay clear. As long as the storage jars are cleaned & sanitized,they last a good while. And dead yeast & trub could cause some minor off flavors & color changes if not rinsed. It does of course depend on what beer the yeast comes from vs what style it's going into.

 

[SPR-GRN]

A few things that can save you money

1.) back-back brewing - when you rack a beer to secondary (or bottle) have another batch ready to go and ferment it on your existing yeast cake the day you transfer/bottle (assuming you've cooled your wort sufficiently before putting it on top of the cake, and you are brewing a similar style) when I make my wee heavy I typically brew a scotch ale prior to make a starter as my wee heavy is pretty potent and requires a healthy yeast culture with a high count.
2.) use dry yeast instead of wet (US-05 is my favorite dry ale yeast, it's fairly neutral)
3.) larger batches - you mentioned you are doing smaller batches, getting up to 5 gallons will presumably reduce your cost
4.) as far as cost per batch is concerned - extract>partial mash> all grain; so if you are doing extract batches try jumping to partial mash, and if you are doing partial mash, try jumping to all grain - although be warned that equipment investment can be fairly substantial for all grain. ie. bulk grain saves money, but then you need a mill which costs money, you need a bigger pot, you may need a new chiller, etc.
5.) plan your yearly brewing out and buy ingredients for multiple batches at once - if you are ordering online this will help save on shipping, also you may be able to buy some items (hops) in bulk to save money
6.) if you go to your LHBS all the time instead of online, you may be able to work out a deal with them by buying in bulk

NOW as far as yeast rinsing goes - I did it for a while when I was using wet yeast (wyeast):

1.) I always made a starter when using saved yeast
2.) if I didn't use it within two months I'd toss it for fear of mutation/viability
3.) strains will mutate over time, so people suggest 3-5 generations and starting over - this also means you can start a "house yeast" if you feel so inclined

even with all of the money I've investing in brewing/dispensing equipment, it is still way cheaper than if I were to buy micro-brews to drink and not brew beer because I really don't buy beer anymore; same goes for wine.

However, all of that stated, this is a hobby, it will cost you money; there are reasonable ways to reduce the cost of the hobby, but you have to accept it for what it is - a hobby. The most effective way to save money while brewing beer is not to brew or drink at all.

hope that was somewhat helpful

 

[billl]

If you are trying to cut the costs down from partial packets of dry yeast, you probably aren't going to have much luck. eg at $1.00 per batch, you don't have much room to go down. By the time you buy jars, and some extra DME to make starters, extra electricity/gas to boil water etc, you'll probably be a year out from breaking even.

If it just kinda sounds like fun to try, the easiest way is just to time your brew days. Brew up a batch. While it is cooling, rack your prior beer off the yeast. Dump about 1/4 of the yeast into the new batch. You can do that for several generations.

If you want to keep it going a little longer, you can use some sanitized mason jars to store yeast between batches. Just dump about 1/4 of the yeast in each jar (you can do less if you tend to brew medium to low ABV beers). If it is going to be in the fridge for more than a couple weeks, you'll probably want to make a small starter before you pitch them

 

[Snicklefritz]

When I make starters I just make like 500mL more than I need. I'll swirl things around real good, then pour 500mL off into a pint jar and refrigerate. This gives me clean reusable yeast for my next starter. No washing involved and since the yeast was never in a beer (just a starter) there is minimal trub as well.

 

[dobe12]

For a few years I rinsed yeast and now I've switched to simply collecting slurry and I can say there is no difference in the finished beer, IMO. Rinsing is time consuming and does create an environment that isn't very healthy for the yeast (pH). I've had many jars of rinsed yeast in my fridge and a few times, things did go bad. I'd open a jar and get smacked in the face with rotten, egg smelling, crap. Some even had bacteria growing. Now, I've only been collecting straight slurry for about a year, but I've yet to come across the same problem. Collecting slurry is MUCH easier and less time consuming. There have also been studies done that show a large amount of healthy, viable yeast are washed away when rinsing.

Some people worry about trub from one beer getting into the next. I do not. I have yet to notice any problem with it. I'm also of the mindset that some trub getting from the brew kettle into the primary isn't a problem either. Some spend so much time trying to make sure it's crystal clear with filtering, straining, etc, but I have yet to be shown how a little trub hurts a beer.

I feel like us home brewers often stress over the little details that aren't very important, but just as often we do NOT stress over more important factors like yeast pitching, fermentation temps, mash temps, etc.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot the main point here. Yes, reusing yeast (whichever method you chose) will definitely save you money. Buying grain and hops in bulk also helps cut cost. Keep an eye on hop suppliers... over the next few months they'll be having blowout sales of 2013 hops to make room for the 2014 crops. Keep'em in an airtight bag, in the freezer and they'll last a while.

 

[elessarjd]

When I make starters I just make like 500mL more than I need. I'll swirl things around real good, then pour 500mL off into a pint jar and refrigerate. This gives me clean reusable yeast for my next starter. No washing involved and since the yeast was never in a beer (just a starter) there is minimal trub as well.

I've seen this suggested in a few places and I like the idea. It sounds cleaner and I don't brew enough to keep tons of jars of yeast around.

Thanks to everyone for their input, this was all very educational!

 

[rhys333]

When I make starters I just make like 500mL more than I need. I'll swirl things around real good, then pour 500mL off into a pint jar and refrigerate. This gives me clean reusable yeast for my next starter. No washing involved and since the yeast was never in a beer (just a starter) there is minimal trub as well.

I'm interested in this technique as well. Seems like a great way to ensure clean yeast without any extra work. Snicklefritz, would you be able to describe your process for a typical 1.050 five gallon batch? I'm wondering how much stored yeast you're starting with, and how big a starter you need to make go get the right cell count. Like the OP I'm interested in starting to reuse yeast, and even culture up some commercial bottled varieties. Thanks so much, and great thread here!

 

[Flipadelphia]

Probably by reading the yeast washing/slanting threads.....................

 

[kh54s10]

I make a starter larger than needed. I then make up 4 vials of 5 ml yeast, 5 ml glycerin, and 10 ml water. I freeze these. I then do a stepped starter for brewday. I have used yeast that has been frozen for over a year with great results. I now have over 10 varieties in stock. If I made up 4 new vials each time, for 4 generations, I could make 256 brews from the original purchase.

My next step will be making and canning starter worts from base grain which would cost quite a bit less than DME.

 

[Calichusetts]

Most have hit upon the best practices. In terms of 1 gallon brewing (as a 1 gallon brewer myself) I would suggest getting into liquid yeast and starters. With our batch size you could make a starter with a vial of yeast and split it into more than a handful of jars (depending on your typical OG.) You will take a hit getting a flask, stir plate, etc. But with just one starter split into 5-10 jars, you basically make your money back instantly.

From there, you can wash, slant, whatever. Just be aware that if you like to brew different styles you might run into issues. If you like 7 different strains of yeast, and split each vial after a starter. You could have over 50 jars of yeast, and yeast will lose viability after time. So consider how many times a year your brew and how often you want to brew certain styles. Unfortunately, you will probably spend some dough over the next few years simply trying different yeast to find the one you really like.

Finally, consider partigyle or double-batch brew days to use up close to a packet/vial of yeast

Hope this helps

 

[dobe12]

Wait, wait, wait... you're a 1 gallon batch brewer looking for a way to save money? Really? Buy a pack of dry yeast for $5 and use it for your next 5 beers. Jeez, can't get any cheaper than that.

 

[robertus]

When I make starters I just make like 500mL more than I need. I'll swirl things around real good, then pour 500mL off into a pint jar and refrigerate. This gives me clean reusable yeast for my next starter. No washing involved and since the yeast was never in a beer (just a starter) there is minimal trub as well.

I did this a couple days ago on my last brew day. There's a pretty good writeup here, though I didn't bother with the "microwave some water, pour the yeast in there" step, figuring it'd be fine to just keep the starter liquid and yeast together (as discussed in the comments). It was very straightforward and seems to have worked out well. I guess the proof will be when I brew again (thinking this weekend or next).

Theoretically, you could also make a "starter" and pour the whole thing into a few mason jars. That was my backup plan if brew day didn't come together.

 

[rhys333]

I did this a couple days ago on my last brew day. There's a pretty good writeup here, though I didn't bother with the "microwave some water, pour the yeast in there" step, figuring it'd be fine to just keep the starter liquid and yeast together (as discussed in the comments). It was very straightforward and seems to have worked out well. I guess the proof will be when I brew again (thinking this weekend or next).

Theoretically, you could also make a "starter" and pour the whole thing into a few mason jars. That was my backup plan if brew day didn't come together.

Awesome. Thanks for posting this link.

 

[LLBeanJ]

When I make starters I just make like 500mL more than I need. I'll swirl things around real good, then pour 500mL off into a pint jar and refrigerate. This gives me clean reusable yeast for my next starter. No washing involved and since the yeast was never in a beer (just a starter) there is minimal trub as well.

IMO, this is THE way to go. I've been doing this for over 2 years with great results. I actually only save anywhere from 20-75B cells, but the idea is the same. After 50+ batches of beer, I've purchased new yeast just 8 or 9 times and one of those was a duplicate strain, so that's 7 or 8 different strains I've been able to brew with. I'm currently stepping up a starter from yeast that was originally purchased over 2 years ago. I believe I've gone as long as 9 months between uses on a couple of my strains with no perceivable ill effects, though I usually try to make it a point to reuse (and, therefore, refresh) within 6 months.

 

[geoffm33]

IMO, this is THE way to go. I've been doing this for over 2 years with great results. I actually only save anywhere from 20-75B cells, but the idea is the same. After 50+ batches of beer, I've purchased new yeast just 8 or 9 times and one of those was a duplicate strain, so that's 7 or 8 different strains I've been able to brew with. I'm currently stepping up a starter from yeast that was originally purchased over 2 years ago. I believe I've gone as long as 9 months between uses on a couple of my strains with no perceivable ill effects, though I usually try to make it a point to reuse (and, therefore, refresh) within 6 months.

Might be a hijack, might be relevant to the OP, but here I go:

How do you determine how much you have so you can decide how to step it up? Is it straight math? You made 1L and save 250ml so you have 25% of the cells you made?

Sounds like a dumb question after I typed it out, but wanted to be sure.

 

[LLBeanJ]

How do you determine how much you have so you can decide how to step it up? Is it straight math? You made 1L and save 250ml so you have 25% of the cells you made?

Yep, pretty much.

Let's say I need 200B to pitch and I make a starter that Yeascalc tells me should yield 250B. Therefore, I need to pitch 80% and save 20%.

I use 8 oz mason jars to for yeast storage, which converts to something like 230 ml. It's also helpful to know that 1 ml of water weighs 1 gram.

So, if I cold-crash and decant my starter down to 1L (1000 ml), I need to save 200 ml (1000 x 20% = 200). To do this I tare out my sanitized jar on a gram scale and pour in 200 grams of well-mixed beer/yeast slurry. After that, just put the lid on and label it with the date and cell count for next time. Also worth noting... the date I put on the label is the date that I cold-crashed the last step, which is usually about a week before I actually do the split. Not a big deal, but I try to be as accurate as I can, given all the variables involved.

 

[petrolSpice]

On my last batch I made a starter that was about double the cell count I needed. So I saved about half of the starter and pitched the rest. Its stored in a mason jar in boiled/cooled water in the fridge. I will definitely make a starter before I attempt to use it.