How 2 check FG without adding Oxygen?

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

Hello folks,

I am concerned when I check my FG, I will have to open the lid on my primary 2 times. Once this evening and again tomorrow evening to see if has stopped dropping.

If it is ready to go into the secondary or almost ready, will the removal of my primary bucket lid add ridiculous amounts of Oxygen and let the CO2 out , TWO TIMES?

If it is not even close to ready, and have to open the lid another time or two, will I be tainting my beer?

If this is the case, how do i avoid issues?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If it is ready to go into the secondary

You probably don't need to transfer to a second container. There are numerous ideas in the forums on how to bottle (or transfer to a keg) directly from the (primary/only) fermenter.

If it is not even close to ready

If you are willing to share what you are brewing, 'we' can offer more specific advice as to how to approach this.

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

This is my third brew. Tho I haven't brewed in 19 years. I have never use a secondary and I wanted to try it for something new. I am brewing a pale ale from a kit.

My other brews I did not give oxygenation much thought. just tried to minimize splashing.

Currently it is in a plastic fermenting bucket, and I would like to transfer it to a glass carboy for secondary. BUT, My concern is centered around SG testing from here on out. opening the lid 2-4 time to test seems more of an issue that transferring to secondary . There is a lot of head room in the bucket so I would guess that it would take a while for the yeast to purge the O2 with CO2 after opening it up. My secondary is smaller and will not have near as much head room.

I have heard of people using syringes through the airlock hole for testing, but I can't find any large enough around me. I am not sure if I can find CO2 cartridge's near me either.

Do I just crack the lid, grab a ladle full and close the lid?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So what did you want to focus on first?

There appeared to be a question regarding how to avoid taking three (or more) FG measurements "If it is not even close to ready". To help answer that question, it would be helpful to know the recipe and when it was brewed. Otherwise, a good guess would be to leave it sit for three weeks, then take the 1st measurement.

For ideas on equipment to reduce oxygen ingress, this may be an interesting read:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

 

[Yooper]

You won't get nearly as much oxygen ingress from taking samples as you will as racking a beer unnecessarily to a carboy filled with oxygen! So, don't worry about a couple of samples. Take one when you think the beer is done, and another a couple of days later, and if they are the same, the beer is done. It won't get any "doner" racking to secondary, but some people do that.

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

I am just looking for hacks that will help me avoid adding oxygen when I take SG readings. Or am I overthinking it?

I assume/hope I will only have to take 2. The recipe says to take a reading after 7 days. I am at day 9. I mentioned more than 2 SG reading s "just in case" the SG is still dropping between reading one and reading 2. I know how to avoid that. just ferment extra long before the first SG reading. If for some reason I need to take 3 or more, (even with just the original 2) I am going to want a way to avoid as much oxygen as can without CO2 canisters. I need experienced brewers hacks.

Like I said. I didn't pay attention to it last time I brewed, and it turned out fine. I am just a little bit more serious this time and trying to gain experience... Another reason I am using a secondary this time. If I never use a secondary I will always wonder.

 

[MaxStout]

Get a turkey baster, sanitize it. Pop the top, grab a sample, button it up. This may take a few seconds, tops. A little air will sneak in, but not much.

 

[Tom R]

Or just get one of these:
Tilt™ Hydrometer and Thermometer - Blue | MoreBeer
I love mine.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I need experienced brewers hacks.

or maybe a well thought out brewing process and with matching equipment that minimizes oxygen ingress.

If I never use a secondary I will always wonder.

So maybe wait until you have: 1) read up on closed transfers, 2) upgraded your equipment (if appropriate) to do closed transfers, and 3) stocked up on the appropriate supplies before doing a low-oxygen ingress transfer to a secondary fermenter?

 

[RM-MN]

The recipe says to take a reading after 7 days. I am at day 9.

Oh good, it looks like you are already ignoring the bad recipe instructions. I leave my beers (mostly) for 3 weeks, take a sample and see how it compares to the estimated FG. Close to a match, I bottle with only one reading.

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

Or just get one of these:
Tilt™ Hydrometer and Thermometer - Blue | MoreBeer
I love mine.

My wife is already bending my ear over money. I had to replace o lot of my equipment. she thinks every batch will cost as much as this one. That tilt Hydrometer looks like something I needed 10 days ago. LOL . I have to get one before my next batch.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

or maybe a well thought out brewing process and with matching equipment that minimizes oxygen ingress.


So maybe wait until you have: 1) read up on closed transfers, 2) upgraded your equipment (if appropriate) to do closed transfers, and 3) stocked up on the appropriate supplies before doing a low-oxygen ingress transfer to a secondary fermenter?

Will do.

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

Get a turkey baster, sanitize it. Pop the top, grab a sample, button it up. This may take a few seconds, tops. A little air will sneak in, but not much.

I think this is what I am going to do. a turkey baster attached to my glass racking cane with tubing. Pull my airlock, Put the cane into the airlock hole. un-squeez the baster to draw beer up the cane and to the short tubing pull the cane out of the airlock hole and replace the airlock .

If that doesn't work , and I have to pop the top, I may use a ladle.

 

[LostHopper]

I'm a believer that the more you mess around with your beer the greater the chance you will screw it up with oxygen or contamination.

If you are dead set on transferring to a secondary just for the experience I would brew a beer that might benefit from a secondary, not a pale ale.

I realize this is probably blasphemy but other than an occasional saison with a finicky yeast I don't take a gravity reading until I package the beer. If I think it's finished fermenting after 7 days I may wait another 3-7 days to transfer it to a keg. I've never had an extra week in the primary cause any harm. This is not recommended if you are into the Grain to Glass Competition.

 

[marc1]

Other than not doing secondary, reducing the times the fermenter is opened, and special bottling techniques, there are not too many "hacks"; cold side O2 reduction can quickly become a more complicated issue than the Beginners Forum is intended.
This thread has some great info though:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

 

[MaxStout]

Another option is to use a fermentor with a bottom spigot.

 

[renstyle]

Another option is to use a fermentor with a bottom spigot.

+1 here! - spend less than a tenner to get 1 or 2 plastic spigots. Add them to the ferm bucket for your next brew.

it will let you use gravity assist to rack to a bottling bucket, or give you the ability to do a closed-loop transfer directly to a purged keg, back-feeding the CO2 from the gas post up to the airlock hole on the lid.

...and also makes gravity readings dead-simple, no ingress provided you back-fill the dead space in the top of the bucket with some CO2.

 

[johndan]

You're overthinking it. All of the advice offered above is great but for your first handful of brews, the 10 seconds that your lid is open to take a sample with a sanitized turkey baster aren't going to be a big deal.

As you get more experience in, start looking at adding a spigot to your bucket, as MaxStout said. Then maybe move to the Tilt and work on closed transfer.

Also, as nearly everyone on this forum advises, I stopped transferring to a secondary after my first few brews. Maybe doing so made a minor difference, but I sure can't tell. If it did, the improvements I made in other areas more than made up for it. And I'm amazed at how many little things I can screw up and still end up with decent beer.

Last piece of advice: The biggest improvement for me (and I think a lot of others) was working on fermentation temperature control, especially if your fermenter's not already someplace that's optimal temperature. Double especially if the temps are too high. There are lots of ways to do this, ranging from putting the fermenter in ice water (freeze 2-liter soda bottles full of water and cycle in as necessary) to a cheap mini fridge with an ink bird thermostat to big bucks solutions like glycol chillers. My beer improved tremendously after I spent $179 on a mini fridge at Lowes. Here's a thread with cheaper ideas.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am concerned when I check my FG, I will have to open the lid on my primary 2 times. Once this evening and again tomorrow evening to see if has stopped dropping.

If you are set on transferring to a secondary, then just take a reading when you transfer. If this is a Pale Ale fermented with a California Ale yeast and the fermentation appeared to go fine, I am not sure what 2 gravity readings before transferring to the secondary would tell you. In theory, you would want 2 consistent gravity readings before packaging...or you can just give it some extra time to ensure fermentation is complete.

 

[Jim R]

There is one other simple option. Just give it enough time to ferment and don't even bother with multiple gravity readings. On most of my beers, I just give them 2 weeks or so in the fermenter before I transfer to the keg. I then maybe take a gravity reading just to calculate ABV but often don't even bother with that. The beer usually tastes better with more time irregardless of when fermentation officially ended.

 

[GoodTruble]

There is lots of good advice above.

But if you are simply looking to minimize oxygen exposure while getting samples using your current set-up - - - Cut a piece of vinyl tubing that fits through your airlock hole to a length long enough that it will hold enough liquid to fill your hydrometer beaker. Sanitize tube. Remove airlock (set in something sanitary like shot glass of vodka), run tube through hole into beer, suck beer into tube (stopping before it actually reaches your mouth), seal tube to keep beer in the tube while you remove it and dump beer into beaker. Replace airlock.

Vinyl tubing is like $5 at the hardware store.

There are better overall setups/approaches to limit oxygen, but the above procedure allows you keep the lid on and take samples using your current set-up

 

[10_degrees_play-doh]

I really wouldn't worry too much about getting a gravity reading before going to secondary. You want some yeast activity remaining to eat up some of the oxygen introduced from the transfer if you're going to do it. Watching airlock bubbles is perfectly acceptable to decide when to do it. As CascadesBrewer said in post 19, just check the gravity when transferring if so inclined. Perfectly good, drinkable beer can be made with an open transfer to secondary and it will probably be clearer without finings than primary alone.

That being said, those mitigating factors like CO2 being released during transfer, yeast eating oxygen, surely won't be enough to stop oxidation completely. Even if you get away without seriously damaging your beer from an open transfer to secondary, you will still get some oxidation, probably enough that at least an "oxidation-sensitive" taster would notice. So... have fun, by all means experiment with a secondary fermenter, but you will probably find yourself cringing at the thought of all the oxygen introduced during open transfers before too long.

Here's an interesting thread on using fermentation gas to purge kegs: Keg purging with active fermentation

You could easily set up something similar to purge a secondary fermenter, or even rig up several vessels "in series."

 

[WesBrew]

Get a valve/spigot, $10 , drill hole , install near the bottom of the bucket. Now you can take samples without opening. You can also stop siphoning. I’d forget about glass carboys and secondary fermentation

 

[IslandLizard]

But if you are simply looking to minimize oxygen exposure while getting samples using your current set-up - - - Cut a piece of vinyl tubing that fits through your airlock hole to a length long enough that it will hold enough liquid to fill your hydrometer beaker. Sanitize tube. Remove airlock (set in something sanitary like shot glass of vodka), run tube through hole into beer, suck beer into tube (stopping before it actually reaches your mouth), seal tube to keep beer in the tube while you remove it and dump beer into beaker. Replace airlock.

That! ^

I've been using the suck-siphon method for many years and successfully so. It's probably the best and easiest method when using buckets, while minimizing O2 ingress. Pressurizing with CO2 to push out the sample would be an improvement, as it won't suck any air back in. But for a 4 fl. oz sample, there's only a small amount (4 fl. oz) of air (containing 21% O2) being sucked in.

I think this is what I am going to do. a turkey baster attached to my glass racking cane with tubing. Pull my airlock, Put the cane into the airlock hole. un-squeez the baster to draw beer up the cane and to the short tubing pull the cane out of the airlock hole and replace the airlock .

You could and it will work. But I find the suck siphon to be much quicker and easier:
All it takes is snaking some skinny tubing through the airlock hole, point the outer end below the beer level, stick your head under it, suck, siphon, and pull out.

For the suck siphon I use 2-2.5' of thin walled 5/16" OD (3/16" ID) tubing (home brew store/hardware store). It goes through the rubber (airlock) grommet, no need to remove it. Key is to not let the beer flow back, so pull the tubing out of the bucket quickly, in one swift motion, when you've got enough. You can put a finger or thumb on the end before pulling it out, if you're not confident. That prevents any flow back.

[...] Another reason I am using a secondary this time. If I never use a secondary I will always wonder.

Please don't do secondaries. Your beer will thank you for it.

 

[Beermeister32]

Just open up the lid and grab your sample. Next batch install a spigot halfway up the bucket. You will be fine.

 

[bracconiere]

Get a valve/spigot, $10 , drill hole , install near the bottom of the bucket. Now you can take samples without opening. You can also stop siphoning. I’d forget about glass carboys and secondary fermentation

if you put the spigot at the bottom, wouldn't you get a lot of yeast?

Just open up the lid and grab your sample. Next batch install a spigot halfway up the bucket. You will be fine.View attachment 731323

ahh, a couple months worth of beer!

 

[DarrellQ]

Another option is to use a fermentor with a bottom spigot.

When you open the spigot to get the sample, won't you pull Star San through the airlock? Or, if you remove the airlock, won't you pull in oxygen?

 

[renstyle]

When you open the spigot to get the sample, won't you pull Star San through the airlock? Or, if you remove the airlock, won't you pull in oxygen?

...and also makes gravity readings dead-simple, no ingress provided you back-fill the dead space in the top of the bucket with some CO2.

kinda feel odd quoting myself, but it's Saturday, and I'm feeling wild LOL

 

[MaxStout]

When you open the spigot to get the sample, won't you pull Star San through the airlock? Or, if you remove the airlock, won't you pull in oxygen?

If you don't overfill the airlock, it won't suck Starsan in. But yes, it will draw some air in. Many people put a balloon on it to collect some CO2 from fermentation. Getting a sample from the spigot will only draw in CO2. This works for cold-crashing, too.

Or you can be fancy and get one of these:

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

I ended up going through the Airlock hole with my racking cane attached to a 4 inch piece of tubing and attached to a turkey baster.

I star sanned the whole rig. It worked better than I thought it would. It drew out about an ounce more than I needed to take a SG reading. I immediately stuck the resanitized air lock back. I tasted the last ounce. tasted like a pale ale only really ,REALLY strong (flavor) .

RECIPE says:
OG 1.055 to 1.060 FG 1.013 to 1.017 ABV 5.6 to 6.1%

MY OG was 1.061 today's reading was at 1.0145 I assume this makes my beer somewhere around 6%.


To any of you experienced brewers, Does this pic look like I am doing this right?

Is this the proper amount of cloudiness for day 9 of fermenting? Too little too much?

Is it time for me to dry hop?

 

[Anishinaabe Brewer]

DarrellQ

When I pulled the airlock I sprayed the hole directly with my Star San mix. CO2 is heavier than air so I figured the 1/4 inch hole open for less than 8 seconds total wouldn't let much CO2 out or O2 in. I am a rookie, so I may have screwed my beer, but it seems logical that less O2 would get in that little hole than If I lifted the lid.

The star san is pretty diluted. When mixed, a spray bottle worth has maybe 4 drops of SS in it.. A single sprits would have WAY less, I do not think start san will effect your beer in any way unless you get like an ounce or so of mixed (diluted) directly in your fermenter.. Someone with more experience will chime in if I am wrong.

 

[GoodTruble]

Looks good!

Also, many people use vodka in their airlocks in case a drop or two does get sucked in for whatever reason.

When using a spigot, if you open it only slightly, the influx of air is usually slow enough to not cause the airlock to suck any liquid in.

 

[IslandLizard]

Also, many people use vodka in their airlocks in case a drop or two does get sucked in for whatever reason.

Not sure how many actually do that... A few drops or even the whole ounce of Starsan in an airlock won't kill your beer either. You won't even notice it.
Reportedly, some brewers had as much as a quart of Starsan sucked back into a 5 gallon batch, and couldn't really tell it was there.

Save the Vodka for drinking/mixing or use it for making extractions, with say, Vanilla, cocoa beans, etc. Or pre-soak wood chips/cubes in it.

 

[odie]

if you put the spigot at the bottom, wouldn't you get a lot of yeast?

nope, the spigot will not fit on the bottom, it's always gonna be at least an inch off the bottom just so you can thread the nut on. and you don't want the nozzle sitting on the ground.

 

[bracconiere]

and you don't want the nozzle sitting on the ground.

good point!

 

[Upstate12866]

You have a very reasonable idea. So many people emphasize oxygen exposure, which you are paying attention to. And you are asking a very good question about what that looks like with your setup.

I don't have all the answers, but I've got an idea to share. First, I highly recommend trying a very careful batch and a less careful one to see for yourself. Next, on the careful batch, without a Tilt Hydrometer, you can use tubing through the airlock hole, but simplify it with a little tool that costs only 15 bucks (ebay, aliexpress) called a refractometer. It requires just one drop to take a reading. It usually reads in a brix scale which can be easily translated to gravity points with one of many free apps (I like brewking).

So no baster required: just a thumb over the other end of the tube, or even nothing at all (a drop will stay on any object you dip).

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] a refractometer. It requires just one drop to take a reading.

Good idea, yes!
Just beware, using a refractometer when alcohol is present, the reading will be skewed.
One needs to use a correction formula to determine the actual gravity:

Refractometer Calculator - Sean Terrill

 

[Spivey24]

There is one other simple option. Just give it enough time to ferment and don't even bother with multiple gravity readings. On most of my beers, I just give them 2 weeks or so in the fermenter before I transfer to the keg. I then maybe take a gravity reading just to calculate ABV but often don't even bother with that. The beer usually tastes better with more time irregardless of when fermentation officially ended.

100% agree. I rarely do a final gravity reading at all. Maybe when I keg it. Give it enough time and don’t rush it. Taste it when you do the final transfer to keg or bottle. As long as I see a good start to ferment I don’t worry.