House Yeast for Brewery

[aeviaanah]

We just formed our LLC for Five Eye Brewing. We aren’t brewing commercially yet and are in the middle of getting everything together.

One of the things we are focusing on is figuring out a house yeast. We would like something that can throw esters (or not) via temperature control but also has a 75-80% attenuation and med/high floculation. Looking for versatility here. We think pale/ipa and neipa will be most of our sales but would also like to use for everything else.

Any ideas?

 

[IslandLizard]

Congrats on your new brewery, wishing you good fortune! You're a brave bunch!

I like WY1272 (same as WLP051) for most IPAs. For NEIPAs I prefer WY1318, but I've brewed great ones with WY1272 too. She seems to emphasize or enhance citrusy flavors.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Congratulations man! I can't help you on the yeast as I'm still learning about them myself.

However, I'd love to pick your brain on the process of how you went about this venture. Not too detailed to get into your business, just the steps and hoops you had to jump through to do this. I may shoot you a PM if you don't mind.

 

[aeviaanah]

Congrats on your new brewery, wishing you good fortune! You're a brave bunch!

I like WY1272 (same as WLP051) for most IPAs. For NEIPAs I prefer WY1318, but I've brewed great ones with WY1272 too. She seems to emphasize or enhance citrusy flavors.

Thankyou for the good fortune and yeast recommendation. California V is actually on the list. We are currently in testing phase and this one is likely to be tried soon!

 

[aeviaanah]

Congratulations man! I can't help you on the yeast as I'm still learning about them myself.

However, I'd love to pick your brain on the process of how you went about this venture. Not too detailed to get into your business, just the steps and hoops you had to jump through to do this. I may shoot you a PM if you don't mind.

Thank-you my friend. Shoot a PM anytime!

 

[ong]

1318 is a great general purpose yeast, I think (I use it in bitters, IPAs, stouts, sours). I really dislike the Chico strains — they have an unpleasant fruitiness, at least to my palate.

 

[JohnSand]

Nottingham is very clean at cool temps, good up to 70 with some more flavor.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Wlp007 makes a great house strain. Attenuates well, and can be quite clean or quite fruity depending on how you manage the yeast.

If you're doing lots of NEIPAs I'd go with London III. Versatile enough to use as a house yeast, and biotransforms well for that hazy appearance. 007 can't keep a permanent haze in a NEIPA, although the character is wonderful (but you're not just brewing for you any more and you WILL tire of the hipsters saying "duhhhh this tastes and smells great but isn't hazy enough so it sucks".

 

[Kent88]

This might not help, but I would recommend that you try to keep a couple different yeasts going. I have been to a couple craft breweries where they've had different styles of beer that come out remarkably similar.

The only reason I can think of for them being so similar is that they have one strain.

That said, I can understand that keeping multiple strains can be tricky.

 

[aeviaanah]

1318 is a great general purpose yeast, I think (I use it in bitters, IPAs, stouts, sours). I really dislike the Chico strains — they have an unpleasant fruitiness, at least to my palate.

I’m quiet fond of LA3 in NEIPa. Does this have decent attenuation for dryer styles such as American pale/ipa etc?

Nottingham is very clean at cool temps, good up to 70 with some more flavor.

I’ve used this recently in a kolsch. It really attenuated well. The mash targeted beta activity and the notty sealed the deal. Man it was dry!

Wlp007 makes a great house strain. Attenuates well, and can be quite clean or quite fruity depending on how you manage the yeast.

If you're doing lots of NEIPAs I'd go with London III. Versatile enough to use as a house yeast, and biotransforms well for that hazy appearance. 007 can't keep a permanent haze in a NEIPA, although the character is wonderful (but you're not just brewing for you any more and you WILL tire of the hipsters saying "duhhhh this tastes and smells great but isn't hazy enough so it sucks".

I have a feeling the NEIPA is gonna taper off soon but the sales are still there so it’s alerts brewing! IMO, It’s a great style but too much body to be crushable.

WLp007 is on the list. Can you comment on what your doing to manage the yeast flavor? Higher temps for ester production? Lower for clean? Would a strain like this work for NEIPA?

This might not help, but I would recommend that you try to keep a couple different yeasts going. I have been to a couple craft breweries where they've had different styles of beer that come out remarkably similar.

The only reason I can think of for them being so similar is that they have one strain.

That said, I can understand that keeping multiple strains can be tricky.

Yea I hear you. I think yeast strain is the biggest factor in the house or brewery flavor. We have pondered using various strains and this isn’t fully out of question. We would still like to go through the initial research to better narrow down select yeast strain.

There are always those styles that can’t do without a certain type of yeast- Belgians etc..


The first strain we tested was Imperial Organic Juicy. We used it in a NEIPA, white stout, blonde ale and American IPA. I admit it makes a good NEIPA but all other styles were a bit too under attenuated. A chocolate stout and American wheat are pending fermentation.

We are thinking of going WLP002, WLP005; WLP007, WY1968 and WLP051 (WY1272)

 

[madscientist451]

My 2 cents: Only using one yeast may be easier to manage, but if you want to present a flight and have really different beers you need to change up the yeast. One of my pet peeves is going to a brewery and everything seems to taste somewhat similar.
Maybe that's being to too picky and the average drinker in your area might not even notice, but that's the way I see it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I’m quiet fond of LA3 in NEIPa. Does this have decent attenuation for dryer styles such as American pale/ipa etc?

I’ve used this recently in a kolsch. It really attenuated well. The mash targeted beta activity and the notty sealed the deal. Man it was dry!

I have a feeling the NEIPA is gonna taper off soon but the sales are still there so it’s alerts brewing! IMO, It’s a great style but too much body to be crushable.

WLp007 is on the list. Can you comment on what your doing to manage the yeast flavor? Higher temps for ester production? Lower for clean? Would a strain like this work for NEIPA?


Yea I hear you. I think yeast strain is the biggest factor in the house or brewery flavor. We have pondered using various strains and this isn’t fully out of question. We would still like to go through the initial research to better narrow down select yeast strain.

There are always those styles that can’t do without a certain type of yeast- Belgians etc..


The first strain we tested was Imperial Organic Juicy. We used it in a NEIPA, white stout, blonde ale and American IPA. I admit it makes a good NEIPA but all other styles were a bit too under attenuated. A chocolate stout and American wheat are pending fermentation.

We are thinking of going WLP002, WLP005; WLP007, WY1968 and WLP051 (WY1272)

Most breweries with a broad portfolio will have a few different core yeasts, and then order outliers as needed. Unless you're brewing a narrow range (say, Ommegang), a single strain won't cut it. But there's financial sense to minimizing variety and maximizing utilization.

WLP007 will make a great low bitterness fruity IPA, just doesn't do well with biotransformation/sustained haze (couldn't keep it from dropping bright in a week or two) despite wonderful flavor and aroma. Adjusting temp and pitching rate can alter the character pretty significantly. It'll make a NEIPA on the dryer side though.

L-iii makes great NEIPA and will keep its haze a lot longer. It's lower attenuative for sure, but I know places that use it as a house strain so it can be done. Mash regimen can boost attenuation.

What you want to avoid is a NEIPA strain that's different from your house unless you're willing to spend a lot money or a lot of time propping. A fresh pitch every time is expensive (since you really shouldn't harvest if you're dry hopping during active fermentation).

 

[aeviaanah]

My 2 cents: Only using one yeast may be easier to manage, but if you want to present a flight and have really different beers you need to change up the yeast. One of my pet peeves is going to a brewery and everything seems to taste somewhat similar.
Maybe that's being to too picky and the average drinker in your area might not even notice, but that's the way I see it.

Agreed. Maybe 2 yeasts are a better starting point.

 

[aeviaanah]

Most breweries with a broad portfolio will have a few different core yeasts, and then order outliers as needed. Unless you're brewing a narrow range (say, Ommegang), a single strain won't cut it. But there's financial sense to minimizing variety and maximizing utilization.

WLP007 will make a great low bitterness fruity IPA, just doesn't do well with biotransformation/sustained haze (couldn't keep it from dropping bright in a week or two) despite wonderful flavor and aroma. Adjusting temp and pitching rate can alter the character pretty significantly. It'll make a NEIPA on the dryer side though.

L-iii makes great NEIPA and will keep its haze a lot longer. It's lower attenuative for sure, but I know places that use it as a house strain so it can be done. Mash regimen can boost attenuation.

What you want to avoid is a NEIPA strain that's different from your house unless you're willing to spend a lot money or a lot of time propping. A fresh pitch every time is expensive (since you really shouldn't harvest if you're dry hopping during active fermentation).

All very good points. We are starting at 5bbls with a single FV/brite combo. Variety will come by making smaller batches on our homebrew systems. Using different yeast one 10-20gal batches will be cost effective. But still, we need to save where we can in prep for the next stepping stone- expansion. Pretty much gonna gauge the market, learn what we can and go from there.

We will revisit L3, I know it makes a good NEIPA... it’s all the other styles I’m concerned with.

 

[thehaze]

I agree that 1318 makes good NEIPAs, but it also makes good beer in general. I have not used it too much, but with a lower mash temp ( and maybe a bit of sugar ) it does tend to attenuate over 75%. I have experienced 75, 77 and 78% apparent attenuation with this yeast, on 3 diferent beers, one of which was a NEIPA mashed at 155F/68C. The other two were an ESB and a Porter. Very tasty both of them.

I think it could easily be a house strain, if you treat it right for the styles you plan on brewing.

Good luck in your future endeavour!

 

[Dog House Brew]

007 is my go to yeast
I also like Pacman. It is super flexible.

 

[couchsending]

I’m quiet fond of LA3 in NEIPa. Does this have decent attenuation for dryer styles such as American pale/ipa etc?

I’ve used this recently in a kolsch. It really attenuated well. The mash targeted beta activity and the notty sealed the deal. Man it was dry!

I have a feeling the NEIPA is gonna taper off soon but the sales are still there so it’s alerts brewing! IMO, It’s a great style but too much body to be crushable.

WLp007 is on the list. Can you comment on what your doing to manage the yeast flavor? Higher temps for ester production? Lower for clean? Would a strain like this work for NEIPA?


Yea I hear you. I think yeast strain is the biggest factor in the house or brewery flavor. We have pondered using various strains and this isn’t fully out of question. We would still like to go through the initial research to better narrow down select yeast strain.

There are always those styles that can’t do without a certain type of yeast- Belgians etc..


The first strain we tested was Imperial Organic Juicy. We used it in a NEIPA, white stout, blonde ale and American IPA. I admit it makes a good NEIPA but all other styles were a bit too under attenuated. A chocolate stout and American wheat are pending fermentation.

We are thinking of going WLP002, WLP005; WLP007, WY1968 and WLP051 (WY1272)

1968/002 is very popular as you can turn and burn beers incredibly fast with it. It ferments incredibly fast and drops like a rock. Will your system allow you to step mash? You’ll need to be able to if you want 75-80 attenuation out of it. It’s prone to diacetyl especially when dry hopping or if you will be priming with sugar at all. It’s essentially the yeast Firestone Walker uses so reading up on their process would be helpful. Creature Comforts also uses it so researching their process would be helpful. They turn Trop in less than 13 days, canned and out the door.

005

It’s a diacetyl making machine and struggles even more with Maltotriose than 002 so you’d really have to work some magic to get much attenuation. You could probably make it work but it would require a lot of trial and error.

007

Super popular house yeast. Attenuates more than 002. Doesn’t drop quite as quick but can make Bright beers without filtration. You need to keep it 66 or under. It produces a lot of acid and can get tart/odd at higher temps. 002 is the same. Pitch at 62/64, ferment at 66. Raise to 68/70 for D-rest. Doesn’t mask hops as much as 002 does.

1272 (I’ve heard issues with the white labs version more than Wyeast)
Fruitier and more flocculating than Chico. Can make Bright beers and hazy beers. Can produce a lot of styles. Needs a lower mash temp than chico to get attenuation. Friend is brewmaster at a large craft brewery in the northwest that uses this strain. Pitch at 66, ferment at 68, d-rest at 72. Cool to 60, pull yeast and dry hop. Bissell Brothers Yeast. Anchor’s Ale yeast.

1318/Juice

I personally can’t stand this yeast. Every NEIPA made with it seems to taste/smell exactly the same regardless of the Hop varieties used. That being said it can produce good beer. It’s soft and tends to not attenuate but with a 149 mash and some sugar you can get 80%. Friend with a brewer who has won lots of big awards with it since 95. He ferments IPAs at 66 with no ramp up. Won GABF gold for a cream ale with an Overpitch and ferment at 62.

 

[MrPowers]

Well, a brewery local to me uses US-05 and S-04 for almost every beer they do, and they both work very well. It saves them the trouble of harvesting, and they are very consistent performers. However, I'm personally very bored with the character of 04/05, but they are definitely bulletproof for production breweries.

I'd actually throw London Fog (WLP066) into the mix here as well. It's a relatively new strain and it makes truly fantastic NEIPA's. I think I actually prefer it to 1318. It's a little bit drier and cleaner to my palette, but maintains the juiciness and haze necessary for the style. I also just used it in a dark mild and it really performed awesome there as well. I'm definitely planning on keeping this strain around. I think it could perform well for just about any style where a slight yeast character is desired. It also clears very well in the absence of dry hops.

 

[couchsending]

Well, a brewery local to me uses US-05 and S-04 for almost every beer they do, and they both work very well. It saves them the trouble of harvesting, and they are very consistent performers. However, I'm personally very bored with the character of 04/05, but they are definitely bulletproof for production breweries.

I’ve been amazed at the number of high end breweries that use dry yeast actually... it’s pretty much all Treehouse uses for hoppy beers and people seem to like them.

 

[Manufacturedevolution]

005

It’s a diacetyl making machine and struggles even more with Maltotriose than 002 so you’d really have to work some magic to get much attenuation. You could probably make it work but it would require a lot of trial and error.

I've been using wlp005 for every thing so far this year. I love it. I've had no issues with diacetyl. It attenuates well. If I mash low I consistently get 80%AA. I've used it in every thing from pale ales to stouts and enjoyed every drop. To each their own.

 

[MrPowers]

I’ve been amazed at the number of high end breweries that use dry yeast actually... it’s pretty much all Treehouse uses for hoppy beers and people seem to like them.

Rumor has it that Toppling Goliath switched over to exclusively S-04 when they opened their new production facility (using 100BBL fermenters). Previously they were thought to have been using WLP007. S-04 is just a very consistent, versatile performer and it's a lot more cost effective than ordering and maintaining liquid cultures. Since the move, I think TG is putting out the most consistent product they ever have, and its just as good as before.

 

[universalfrost]

bry 97 and us04 are my go to ale strains.

34/70 for lager

and wlp300 for weizen

 

[Qhrumphf]

Rumor has it that Toppling Goliath switched over to exclusively S-04 when they opened their new production facility (using 100BBL fermenters). Previously they were thought to have been using WLP007. S-04 is just a very consistent, versatile performer and it's a lot more cost effective than ordering and maintaining liquid cultures. Since the move, I think TG is putting out the most consistent product they ever have, and its just as good as before.

A brink is a brink and slurry is slurry. A first pitch of dry yeast is absolutely cheaper than pitchable liquid yeast, but the maintenance doesn't change much. I suppose given stability you could order far in excess and store, so there's that too.

A lot of commercial breweries use dry yeast (for most of the same reasons many homebrewers do).

Of the Chico derivatives, US05 is my least favorite. Of the Fullers derivatives S04 is my preferred one.

 

[MrPowers]

A brink is a brink and slurry is slurry. A first pitch of dry yeast is absolutely cheaper than pitchable liquid yeast, but the maintenance doesn't change much. I suppose given stability you could order far in excess and store, so there's that too.

A lot of commercial breweries use dry yeast (for most of the same reasons many homebrewers do).

Of the Chico derivatives, US05 is my least favorite. Of the Fullers derivatives S04 is my preferred one.

I know the local brewery that I mentioned before pitches fresh dry yeast for every batch. They almost never harvest or repitch anything (occasionally they will repitch one generation of a one off liquid culture). They do this primarily because they get very consistent fermentation performance, every time, without the need for the laboratory equipment to take cell counts and estimate viability of liquid cultures needed when maintaining multiple strains. They also don't have to worry as much about contamination of stored yeast.

I imagine TG is doing it for the same reason, so they can easily pitch fresh every time. In their case, it's probably because it's much harder to harvest clean yeast from NEIPA styles when you're dry hopping earlier on in fermentation.

Edit: Also, I agree about US-05. I'm not personally a fan, and have never been able to get stellar results out of it, but it does work quite well for them.

 

[aeviaanah]

A brink is a brink and slurry is slurry. A first pitch of dry yeast is absolutely cheaper than pitchable liquid yeast, but the maintenance doesn't change much. I suppose given stability you could order far in excess and store, so there's that too.

A lot of commercial breweries use dry yeast (for most of the same reasons many homebrewers do).

Of the Chico derivatives, US05 is my least favorite. Of the Fullers derivatives S04 is my preferred one.

Can you explain the derivatives? Are these lineages like hops?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Can you explain the derivatives? Are these lineages like hops?

WLP001, WY1056, US-05 (and now other companies I'm not familiar with) are all colloquially referred to as Chico, and are allegedly Sierra Nevada's yeast. They all behave similarly, but not identically. My assumption is that they share common parentage (ie derived from) but are likely all slightly different from each other gentically taken from different places and times under different labs and likely slightly mutated from one another. Same for WLP002, WY1968, and S-04, all allegedly the Fullers strain, that there are micro differences in between. Where I notice a difference in character between the Chico variants, I've noticed a behavior difference more than anything with Fullers, with 1968 being the tougher of the three with dropping too early and leaving gobs of VDK in its wake.

 

[FoamRanger]

San Diego Super WLP 090, WLP 810 and SAF 34/70 for lagers.
Not to many styles that can't be worked out with these three but if you're looking for a one-yeast-does-it-all kind of a deal then something close to Pacman. Rogue does seem to crank out a lot of styles with that one. White Labs can also grow your commercial quantity pitches of your chosen strain to meet your desired cell count.

 

[Staylow]

Same for WLP002, WY1968, and S-04, all allegedly the Fullers strain,

S-04 isn't the Fuller's strain. It's the Whitbread strain, same as Wyeast 1099.

 

[Qhrumphf]

S-04 isn't the Fuller's strain. It's the Whitbread strain, same as Wyeast 1099.

Ahh, good to know. Would explain why it's more well behaved. But always found the character to be similar and they're always equated together.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

On my phone so will try to be brief. The first big question is how much time and resources you want to put into yeast management. It’s not inconsiderable and one reason why so many small breweries use dry yeast.

Second- attenuation and dropping are generally mutually exclusive, which is why British breweries historically used a multi strain that included yeast that were good for one or other. Multi strains are a pain to manage in conical which is why Whitbread B (parent of wlp007 and 1098; 1099 is a completely different Whitbread strain) became so popular during the industrialisation of brewing in the 1960s as unusually it did both fairly well.

Third - there’s lots of other considerations beyond just taste - when Burton Bridge set up in the early 1980s they set an initial filter of the NCYC based on eg chain forming for easy identification under the microscope and only then did a taste off. Their situation was different as they were aiming for the cask market but still worth a read by anyone planning to open a brewery http://www.burtonbridgebrewery.co.uk/History/Index.shtml

By accident they ended up with a killer yeast which was a bonus- I’m trying to get hold of some as it sounds a fun yeast.

Anyway, combine those first two and think about blends of dry yeast - I’d definitely put 90% S-04 / 10% T-58 on the list, which seems to be the core of the Treehouse blend (which may also have a pinch of WB-06 as well, but I’d KISS to start with). Gives you a lot of flexibility to just use one or other in appropriate styles - supposedly de Struise use T-58 in Pannepot which is a world-class Belgian dark.

Two other slightly left-field choices which are on my list to try in NEIPAs are the Rochefort yeast (wlp540 etc - which is POF- and a relative of Ringwood/East Midlands so not “Belgian”) and Mangrove Jack M15, although the latter might be a bit of a pain in a brewery environment not least because it only tolerates 8% alcohol.

As an aside - although Fullers claimed to select one strain from their multi strain when they moved to conicals in the late 1970s, the genetic evidence suggests wlp002 split off from Whitbread B around that time... Although S-04 has generally been linked to Whitbread B (ie 1098-ish), recent genetic studies, which may not be entirely reliable, suggest that it too has come out of the Ringwood and Wlp039 family.