I just finished a Citra IPA extract kit. The boil is only 2.5 gallons. I do have a cheap stainless pot that came with a kit. I didn’t time the boil, but from start to finish/ clean up was about 3 hours. I think my issue is my pot as the stove is almost a year old. Will be looking for a new one soon. Thx
Hot tap water?
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3hrs is excessive for 2.5gal even with SS. I'd suspect there's an issue with pot to surface contact or flat out a power problem with the stove. Surface burners generally have 2 settings, something to verify.
Edit:
I read that wrong. From cold water to clean up, post cooling, 3hrs total time is reasonable.
To add:
As others said, I'd be leary of any water you don't know the chemistry of. I always use RO/distilled and remineralize. But that's just me.
More:
If you're interested in really cutting time, especially with extract brewing, look up the no boil threads....
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/no-boil-recipes-new-for-2019.660329/
Edit:
I read that wrong. From cold water to clean up, post cooling, 3hrs total time is reasonable.
To add:
As others said, I'd be leary of any water you don't know the chemistry of. I always use RO/distilled and remineralize. But that's just me.
More:
If you're interested in really cutting time, especially with extract brewing, look up the no boil threads....
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/no-boil-recipes-new-for-2019.660329/
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Here in Southern California, the water is terrible. At various times of year you can smell an organic odor in the water. Additionally they treat it with chloramine which is much harder to remove than chlorine, resulting in off-flavors.
I typically use distilled water from the store and build up to the water profile needed. I have a couple styles I use Crystal Geyser mountain spring water on, or a blend of the two with modifications. Sometimes I’ll heat a portion up on the stove, especially if I’m doing an extended boil and don’t want to stall out the boil by topping up with extra brewing water.
I typically use distilled water from the store and build up to the water profile needed. I have a couple styles I use Crystal Geyser mountain spring water on, or a blend of the two with modifications. Sometimes I’ll heat a portion up on the stove, especially if I’m doing an extended boil and don’t want to stall out the boil by topping up with extra brewing water.
Unless you are tapped into a Spring water well?? All the other new stuff sounds great, (but the well ground water flag) should make you think twice.
Even with modern hot water tanks, the anode needs to be replaced to extend the life of your tank. It's a DIY project. AND, almost every hwt has a valve at the bottom. That is your friend! At least once a year I drain 2-3 five gallon buckets of water from our tank. Any sediment is thus emptied. Barbarosa's image is the result of a lack of simple maintenance.
I suppose since most of us are using RO or distilled water, boiling wort at 212 degrees in steel and aluminum containers is not bad? Not to mention sticking copper or SS wort chillers in our boils. (I do recognize it's still tap water going through the pipes as opposed to what most home brewers use for brewing...)
I suppose since most of us are using RO or distilled water, boiling wort at 212 degrees in steel and aluminum containers is not bad? Not to mention sticking copper or SS wort chillers in our boils. (I do recognize it's still tap water going through the pipes as opposed to what most home brewers use for brewing...)
I'm more worried about crud that collects at the bottom of a water heater breaking loose and jumping into the brewpot.
BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
It is.
Use an inline sediment style filter if you are concerned about sediment in your water, but using your hot water tank is safe based on my previous statement above about house age and water source.
I know it cost more for distilled or for RO (don't forget to add your calcium salts), but it can really makes a huge difference particularly if you have poor water quality (high levels of dissolved solids, salts).
BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
Again WHOA! Cold water is added to the bottom of a hot water tank and hot water drawn off the top hence maintaining constant hot temperature for the volume of your tank. The precipitated solids are not floating around in the hot water tank. The tank scale is from calcium and magnesium in you water and when heated causes the carbonate to be driven off leaving the Ca and Mg to precipitate. Anyone that lives in the Phoenix area has seen this effect on their coffee pot over time. Use your hot water or not, as long as your tap water taste good you're good to go!
VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
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As an environmental chemist, you know that the 1986 "lead free" regulation didn't actually eliminate lead. Hell, pipes were still allowed to contain up to 8%. You also know that lead leaches more efficiently into hot water than into cold water.
Just adding some context.
I routinely use hot water but I also use a water filter intended for hot water as well. You do need to fill slowly for the filter to be effective.
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
If you are thinking of brewing with extract for a while, take a look at some of the recipes that @Steveruch has posted (here) or published (Zymurgy magazine). It's a 'no-boil (pasteurized)' approach using a concentrated wort. Less water to heat and the 'top off' water appears to take the wort from 180F-ish to pitching temperature.
BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
Yes, the metals present can dissolve more readily in hot water. How much difference is there between the cold and hot water? Depends.
This is a cautionary tale about private wells that have acidic water. Twenty years ago a neighbor lost his wife to dementia. A couple years later he ask me (handyman too, btw) to a fix a leaking toilet. His property was just outside the neighborhood and hence he had a well and was not using the local water system which is regulated. I found the copper pipe inside the tank to be very shiny and not the normal copper/brown patina. There was considerable corrosion of the pipe. Long story short (kind of), he sold the house and moved off with an old girlfriend. Not a story to share with your loved one. I bumped into him 2 years later with the now new wife and sadly he did not recognize me at all. His new wife said he had developed dementia. My neighbor's house was built in 1980. Was it copper and lead poisoning?
There are many factors that can taint your tap water. Buy a RO system for all your water consumption. It removes all of the large ions and >98% the small ones, plus all of the organics and those pest small microbial pathogens. Don't start your kids on RO until they are around 5 years old (assuming you don't have water issues), the fluoride in the water (assuming your system adds it) actually works.
Back to beer. I absolutely, positively without a doubt noticed a large improvement in my beer when I switch to RO water. If your tap water doesn't taste good don't use it.
Our tap water tastes great, I do smell a bit of chlorine when I run the cold water for the dog's water bowl or any other time I'm running a lot of cold water. And....I'm going to cause a lot of shock here, but I run my strike & sparge straight out of the valve on my HWH into the kettle, with no filter. I do use k-meta as well. My beers taste great, I've got no weird off-flavors, and my kettles don't have anything built up on the insides that would speak to minerals leaching out of the heater. Water heater is less than 3 years old and was top of the line when we bought it. Stupid? Maybe. But it works for me. I've got great burners that would take dead cold water up to strike temperature in about 45 minutes, but using hot water cuts that time down to 15-20 minutes with a LOT less propane being used. Also, I figure I'm doing the tank some good by draining about 1/3 of it every brewday to let fresh water rinse it out (I may be talking out my a** here, correct me if I'm wrong but I may not care).
BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
That's exactly how it should be done, assuming no lead solder pipe connections. Your hot water heater is far less expensive for heating water than with propane and will minimize your trips for refills.
Practical Mechanic quote:
"Although your hot water still is safe to drink, you may want to replace your anode rod with an aluminum-zinc rod. The zinc will help to neutralize the hydrogen sulfide gas production, eliminating the horrible smell!"
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The sacrificial anode in water heaters is usually made of magnesium or aluminum, so while it corrodes, it doesn't rust.
Well, the last time my water tank broke, when I drained it, I got about half-a-gallon of aluminum-colored sludge out of it... it wasn't by any means solid, and made me seriously reconsider ever drinking anything out of the hot water side ever again.
VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
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And/or zinc. Call it oxidation, rust, or corrosion, but this is what it looks like.
Until it's completely gone, that is.
Zymurologist
Life's Too Short To Drink Garbage Beer
Some of the information proposed within this thread is downright funny.
VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
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[Rephrased -mod]
Can you explain whatever it is that's making you laugh specifically, and provide information to further the discussion?
Mods: Apologies in advance if this post constitutes unauthorized moderation.
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BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
At least somebody gets me. hehe
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
For about $20 you can get a 16 quart pot at Walmart. Just use that as a second pot, use the lid to get boiling faster, use cold tap water and RDWHAHB.
Zymurologist
Life's Too Short To Drink Garbage Beer
After thirty+ years in the industry (self employed over half that time) as a licensed plumber (specializing in service and repair) in three different states, I can say that some of the replies are a bit suspect, not enough to get your panties all bunched up but enough to cause a chuckle, sorry not interested in picking on any one post but the best information I've seen posted in this thread is to regularly flush your water heater, that thing should go fifty or more years and it will with regular maintenance.
Once a scale is formed in the water pipes (doesn't take long) then the water passing through them is isolated from the pipe, fittings, and solder joints, no more contact, no leaching. Acidic water can be a problem and is typically addressed at the municipality level, that is what happened in Flint Michigan, they changed to an acidic water supply and did not do enough adjustment for it and the acidic nature of the water not only exposed the lead but leached it into solution. As an aside, leaded solder was basically outlawed with the other lead products when California banned high lead content, before I started plumbing. Plumbing solder is comprised of 95% tin and 5% antimony, or 95/5.
If you live in a house built after about 1996 then your house water pipes could be pex, or a combination of pex and copper.
Speaking of municipality water purveyors, many city connections (depends on location) are a lead tap with lead wiped support for the taps from the water main to the corp stop, from there the residential/commercial supply lateral goes to the building, many areas are finally getting around to replacing their taps. I found these in Wisconsin working for a plumber that did the heavy lifting for the city.
I would never draw water off the bottom of my tank type water heater to brew with, If the dip tube is compromised (happens all the time) then you are not circulating that tank completely with use, dip tubes are plastic and become brittle with time and will break off in the water heater as they decompose, water heaters can be a breeding ground, dark warm and stagnant. If you take a functually perfect fifty gallon water heater but only run about five or ten gallons of water a week through it, it will grow a nasty smelling black sludge in the bottom. Tankless water heaters are a great idea, they are just more maintenance and require a vinegar (acidic) flush annually to flush the hard water deposits from the copper heat exchanger to keep the flow rates up and protect the equipment warranty.
The state of Oregon is on the cutting edge of clean water technology, most all of the other states are taking their cues from Oregon and how we are protecting our water shed. When the human body is made up of 60% or so of water it makes sense to drink your supply upstream of the herd.
Hope ya all have a good day.
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BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
WOW did not know that! Always thought the rapid water flow and far from boiling point operation would have made scaling impossible. I did notice the 4 valve setup looks like it's designed for flushing.
Anyway, she who shops is now scheduled to purchase 2 gallons of white vinegar next trip. I'll flush the heater, and measure the vinegar density before and after to see if any scale is dissolved or any particulate matter flushes out.
Will let you know.
Zymurologist
Life's Too Short To Drink Garbage Beer
It's in the warranty paperwork that comes with the unit, if you call tech support for issues it is one of the first questions that they will ask, "have you kept up with the maintenance", right after they get your particulars like name, address etc.
Edit:
As far as the flow through the tankless units it has improved a great deal over the years, I installed my first tankless in '99 and had to go back in and remove the faucet flow restricters otherwise there was not enough flow through the unit to activate the flow switch, and yup, that four valve setup is specifically designed to facilitate the flushing of the unit, instructions should be provided with the unit.
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BarryBrews
Well-Known Member
I installed a tankless system in our last house right after the old tank heater lost it's bladder all over the laundry room floor. The tankless heater was still performing great after 10+ years when we sold the house. New house is just 4 years old, but...still want to check it out. We are fortunate in NC since our tap water is surface water and therefore has much less calcium and magnesium than typical.
It's these little tip bits that make it all worth while.
Zymurologist
Life's Too Short To Drink Garbage Beer
It's definitely location critical, in Wisconsin water heaters are installed (early nineties) with a bolt up access plate near the bottom to allow removal of the hard water deposits, you could reach your hand inside, in Oregon I made an adapter for my shop vac to gain access through the lower element hole of the electric water heaters to remove the buildup, as was mentioned earlier, water heaters are nasty.
Barleymist
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In lieu of anyone actually testing their hot water output for contaminants I found this study. Slightly alarming, although performing deep flush decreases risk mostly.
"Lead in hot water – an issue worth testing" "One water heater had levels as high as 2,680 ppb"
So if you still want to use hot water drain tank from bottom valve, purge flush by opening and closing water inlet a few times. This should remove most of the lead particles, Aluminum hydroxide gel (formed via anode oxidation), scale and stagnant water in tank. Maybe even remove the cheap aluminum anode, replace with more expensive, healthy magnesium rod that might make your water smell like rotten eggs... After flushing clean faucet aerators they will be filled with junk.
Put a label on your beer, not for developing children or embryos ;-)
"Lead in hot water – an issue worth testing" "One water heater had levels as high as 2,680 ppb"
So if you still want to use hot water drain tank from bottom valve, purge flush by opening and closing water inlet a few times. This should remove most of the lead particles, Aluminum hydroxide gel (formed via anode oxidation), scale and stagnant water in tank. Maybe even remove the cheap aluminum anode, replace with more expensive, healthy magnesium rod that might make your water smell like rotten eggs... After flushing clean faucet aerators they will be filled with junk.
Put a label on your beer, not for developing children or embryos ;-)
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Zymurologist
Life's Too Short To Drink Garbage Beer
That's a good article there and hits on a few points including about lead service taps etc. and also points out that the piping must be disturbed to release the amounts of toxic lead, disturbed is anything that would cause the scale buildup to be removed exposing the raw lead.
Another misconception is that copper water supply pipes and fittings contain lead, this is not true, the internet does a poor job of explaining things. When a copper alloy is mentioned they are talking about brass, bronze etc. as copper is a pure element and is mined as such, brass and bronze etc. is a man made manufactured alloy that is made up of primarily copper, some zinc and just enough lead to aid the machine-ability of the alloy (acts as a lubricant). That said, all of your faucet bodies, hose spigots, garden hose ends, commercial flush assemblies (flushometers), etc. are manufactured from brass as brass is more durable (harder) than copper alone.
