Hop leaves getting very full of holes

[Rundownhouse]

No, it had little legs, and was much, much smaller. Head of a pin size.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Update: After one application of pesticide, no noticeable improvement. Today I saw a couple very small, red spiders. One had a web underneath a leaf and I watched it eat a small gnat/fly. I also saw a bunch of ants on one leaf, and a weird little bug that looked almost like a hermit crab, the kind with a spiral shell on its back, only smaller.

More pesticide coming sunset tonight.

Google "Red Spider Mites", these are bad for hops.

Google "Aphid Wolf" or "Aphid Lion". Note the ones who attach "trash" to their backs (people say they look like Hermit Crabs). These are good for hops. Bad for ants, aphids, mites, ....

 

[Rundownhouse]

Red spider mites they were. The other did not look like the aphid wolf/lion.

 

[drummstikk]

Just a few points on nicotine:

It's a great example of how the term "organic" tells you nothing about the actual substance you're using. Nicotine, organic though it may be, is toxic, environmentally damaging stuff. (Most "inorganic" fertilizers, on the other hand, are the purified salts of life.)

That being said, anybody should be able to apply nicotine and be safe, using reasonable precautions. Wear long sleeves and gloves. Wear a face mask if you're using anything bigger than a spray bottle to apply. If you spill it on yourself, go take a shower.

As for the selectivity of nicotine, it is true that it, and many pesticides, kill beneficial insects in addition to the bugs you don't want. The same is true of prescription antibiotics -- they kill your infection and many of the bacteria your gut needs to be healthy. Yet you'd be quite foolish to decline a round of amoxicillin if you have a raging sinus infection.

The same holds true if you want to save your plants. You may have some problems down the road as the local ecosystem adapts to the absence of beneficial insects. You'll also get diarrhea if you take antibiotics. But if you decide the infestation is bad enough, don't let that side affect discourage you from saving your plants.

 

[greyhoundbrewing]

what about bottles of cope spit? can it be diluted, strained and sprayed. its naturally made and appears to be abundant in my car

 

[cheezydemon3]

Cope spit? lol. Dip spit?

Might digest your plants

 

[dbhokie]

Just a few points on nicotine:

It's a great example of how the term "organic" tells you nothing about the actual substance you're using. Nicotine, organic though it may be, is toxic, environmentally damaging stuff. (Most "inorganic" fertilizers, on the other hand, are the purified salts of life.)

That being said, anybody should be able to apply nicotine and be safe, using reasonable precautions. Wear long sleeves and gloves. Wear a face mask if you're using anything bigger than a spray bottle to apply. If you spill it on yourself, go take a shower.

As for the selectivity of nicotine, it is true that it, and many pesticides, kill beneficial insects in addition to the bugs you don't want. The same is true of prescription antibiotics -- they kill your infection and many of the bacteria your gut needs to be healthy. Yet you'd be quite foolish to decline a round of amoxicillin if you have a raging sinus infection.

The same holds true if you want to save your plants. You may have some problems down the road as the local ecosystem adapts to the absence of beneficial insects. You'll also get diarrhea if you take antibiotics. But if you decide the infestation is bad enough, don't let that side affect discourage you from saving your plants.

Poppycock, a load of it. Nicotine is poisonous in vast amounts that you are nowhere near in danger of when using it as an insecticide. It has been used such for ages in the past, and it works well. If anything wear sleeves to prevent stains and unwanted odors, but things espoused such as this are just ill-informed.

The good part of the post is that, you should try to be selective if possible instead of "nuking".

Health aspects, way overblown.. A bunch of meta-analysis studies that don't comport with observation or experience. People who make money off of fear mongering. I've picked tobacco for years, known people that have, and been all around it. It is a wonderful natural substance that has many beneficial uses.

By the way Gaseous Chlorine, Sodium, Phosphorous, Nitrogen are also deadly in concentrated amounts, your just never going to see those amounts.

You could dilute spit, whenever I have used tobacco, I have gotten it fresh from a farmer and made a solution.

 

[drummstikk]

Poppycock, a load of it. Nicotine is poisonous in vast amounts that you are nowhere near in danger of when using it as an insecticide.

I think we agree that it's safe to use nicotine in the garden. I was arguing to just put on some long sleeves and go for it, which I think you also agreed with. Why poppycock?

The good part of the post is that, you should try to be selective if possible instead of "nuking".

This is actually the part we disagree on. I was writing in favor of "nuking", arguing that sometimes it's okay to do so, just like it's sometimes okay to "nuke" your gut microflora with an antibiotic when you have a severe problem.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

By the way Gaseous Chlorine, Sodium, Phosphorous, Nitrogen are also deadly in concentrated amounts, your just never going to see those amounts.

I've also heard that Dihydrogen Monoxide can be deadly when inhaled. Lots of people have suffered, mostly in the summer months but occasionally in their own bathrooms.

Ghastly. Why has no one banned this particularly deadly substance?

 

[TyTanium]

I've also heard that Dihydrogen Monoxide can be deadly when inhaled. Lots of people have suffered, mostly in the summer months but occasionally in their own bathrooms.

Ghastly. Why has no one banned this particularly deadly substance?

This is a real issue. Also causes all kinds of environmental problems - it's single biggest cause of loss of arable soil. Not sure why the Occupy movement doesn't protest this stuff.

 

[Srceenplay]

This is a real issue. Also causes all kinds of environmental problems - it's single biggest cause of loss of arable soil. Not sure why the Occupy movement doesn't protest this stuff.

Should we put and end to women's suffrage too, or just combat one problem at a time?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Should we put and end to women's suffrage too, or just combat one problem at a time?

When I get my rib back, she won't suffer.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I grew tobacco last year, it is one wierd plant.

The sprout for this goliath of a plant starts out too small to see and grows fast. Looks unnatural.

The plant is kind of oily and your skin smells of it if you touch it.

I get it, cobra venom is "organic" but not the best thing for you.

Just to be clear, steeped tobacco water is worse for you than most pesticides?

 

[dbhokie]

I think we agree that it's safe to use nicotine in the garden. I was arguing to just put on some long sleeves and go for it, which I think you also agreed with. Why poppycock?



This is actually the part we disagree on. I was writing in favor of "nuking", arguing that sometimes it's okay to do so, just like it's sometimes okay to "nuke" your gut microflora with an antibiotic when you have a severe problem.

I apologize, I get too bent up over work things and come across too negative on here.

It's just you don't need sleeves for safety. For aesthetics, sure. Keep from stains and smell, but safety...no.

If you have terrible infestations I am all in favor of nuking...but in general little problems demand little control, big ones, big control. In a controlled environment (such as a greenhouse) or outbreak problems, I think nuking is good to cya. I would tend to gravitate more towards nicotine type organic solutions, more so than chemical solutions, myself, but if it works for you and you like it do it.

There are tons of very effective things you can mix in your kitchen using tobacco, oils, citrus acids, garlic, chile peppers..

Once again I apologize for coming off combative. The nicotine thing just grates my gears. Indians used it and neem for a long time. Neem oil is fantastic, DE is another nuke solution that is good when consumed (even more effective when mixed with chiles (repels as well as kills).

Another thing that many people don't think of is companion planting.

Marigolds, garlic, asparagus even, there are many companion plants that will:

A.) draw desirable bugs and predatory bugs
B.) repel unwanted bugs

I have eggplants scattered throughout my peppers, (they do well with peppers), the eggplants are riddled with holes as they attract insects away from the peppers.

Garlic keeps away a whole host of baddies.

 

[dbhokie]

I grew tobacco last year, it is one wierd plant.

The sprout for this goliath of a plant starts out too small to see and grows fast. Looks unnatural.

The plant is kind of oily and your skin smells of it if you touch it.

I get it, cobra venom is "organic" but not the best thing for you.

Just to be clear, steeped tobacco water is worse for you than most pesticides?

Most people confuse the idea of TMZ which came about the tobacco mosaic virus, and could infect tomatoes, later studies showed no presence in natural tobacco, but only in butts and not even in cigars.

Nicotine Sulfate is very dangerous, but not the same as what you get in nicotine tea. Also the concentration level in a spray is far below what someone gets smoking.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it retains its toxicity for only a few hours after spraying.

When swallowed in concentrated amounts it is very dangerous, but if you make it, you A) wouldn't use that concentrated of an amount B) Probably don't plan on gulping it down

Most of the people concerned with the danger of it, are affected by a large anti-tobacco lobby, that is in quite well with the health and "organic" crowd. There are other things you can use, but as a nuclear option Nicotine is exceptionally effective, if you mix it with lemon juice it doesn't smell so bad either.

Nicotine Sulfate you can purchase and it is much more concentrated, even so you would prep to a level much lower than old commercial uses, and use it effectively, spray your body with it all over and at worst increase your blood pressure a bit, but yeah if you take concentrate make a concentrated batch of it and drink a glass, your nervous system may go bonkers and you might die.

Kind of the same reason you don't drink a fifth of PGA shine.

 

[cheezydemon3]

WELL....lol.

So, steep cigar butts, a 1/2 pouch of pipe tobacco, or whatever form of tobacco you have access to, with 1/2 cup mouthwash, 1 tbsp cayenne, 1 gallon water.

Spray in the evening after sun is going down.

 

[dbhokie]

If you use the tobacco, I would use about 1 cup of tobacco per 1 gallon of water, let it steep in the water for 24 hours, and it should have a light dark shade about like a tea. If it is too dark, dilute it down a bit more. TMV used to be a concern but hasn't been for quite a while. If possible I would recommend pipe tobacco instead of butts, I wouldn't recommend butts (although they would likely work fine, I just don't like including extra chemicals).

Alternatively you can do a garlic pepper spray something like:

1 garlic bulb

1 quart of water

1 medium onion

1 tablespoon of cayenne pepper

1 tablespoon liquid dish soap

You can also use DE as an alternative, coating plant leaves but reapply after heavy rains.

Or mix 2 parts DE with 1 part Cayenne, and mix in water.

I use organic liquid soap so it is free of phosphates, chlorine and other such things.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I said cigar butts. No added chemicals.

 

[dbhokie]

I said cigar butts. No added chemicals.

Hey, well apply and let us know how it serves you!