Hmm Toasted Sugar - Dry Caramelization

[Schlenkerla]

I made a blonde tonight with pilsner and toasted sugar. Got good efficiency. 1.062 Targeting 1.069.

The sugar has a good caramel taste. Its the first time I did this. I toasted it 8 hours at 300F. Wanted to test the effects of this caramelized sugar in a fairly neutral beer. Belgian Blonde with caramelized sugar.

Toasted Sugar Instructions

Sister of Carmelite - Blonde Ale - For the Aged and Still Firm.

FWIW - My mother died last year in a Catholic Nursing Home. It was ran by some pretty nice nuns... The Sisters of Carmelite... hence the name of this beer.

Now to wait 3 weeks...

 

[Schlenkerla]

Ironically, this is what I drank during my brew session. Brewed by the lady-folks of Belgium.

Deliria

 

[Schlenkerla]

Out of 52 viewers, nobody thought dry caramelization is a cool idea for adding flavor to a lighter SRM beer?

Anyhow was thinking this might be good for ciders and drying a lighter beer with added flavor.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'm gonna try this, thanks!

I'm heating the house anyway during the winter....may as well run the oven and produce something

 

[thunderwagn]

Actually pretty cool. I'm thinking ipa

 

[Schlenkerla]

Actually pretty cool. I'm thinking ipa

White IPA?

I'm gonna try this, thanks!

I'm heating the house anyway during the winter....may as well run the oven and produce something

Whatever you guys do, don't taste it hot. The carmel flavor supposedly starts to come out after an hour.

I did mine in two four hour stints. Mine had a good caramel taste.

BTW the house will smell good.

Just to be clear, this is the first time doing this. I wanted to dry out the blonde with caramel sugar vs candy sugar.

 

[thunderwagn]

One thing I can't find is amount of caramelization and "baking" time. For instance, after 8 hrs of cooking, where would you place your caramelization level compared to candi sugar?

 

[Schlenkerla]

One thing I can't find is amount of caramelization and "baking" time. For instance, after 8 hrs of cooking, where would you place your caramelization level compared to candi sugar?

I can't tell you. I don't know. My sugar looked like light brown sugar.

 

[Schlenkerla]

This is what you're talking about.... Note the Mahogany 300F....

This is what I taste at the time I did. 8 hours. I don't know that needed to go that long.

#SnickASaurusRex

Mahogany (300F)
-Mahogany, more brown than red in color. Raisins and figs with some mild bitterness developing. There is a tart sweetness, and a loss of complex caramel flavors. The caramels are replaced by bittersweet toast and burnt sugar characters. It is rich and decadent but not as complex as 290F.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837

 

[thunderwagn]

This is what you're talking about.... Note the Mahogany 300F....

This is what I taste at the time I did. 8 hours. I don't know that needed to go that long.



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about! Thanks. Just wonder what the toasting times are for those flavor profiles. Hmm.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about! Thanks. Just wonder what the toasting times are for those flavor profiles. Hmm.

I thought the same thing. I plan to do the caramel syrup at some time. I don't have the mason jars to store them in at the moment.

Plastic tupperware works for cooled sugar and it keeps it dry.

I didn't have to pulverize my batch in a chopper. It stayed pretty granular the whole time.

I made this one day while sitting at home watching football. I can handle stirring every thirty minutes.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about! Thanks. Just wonder what the toasting times are for those flavor profiles. Hmm.

Try these times, taste and retry.

The color change is obvious after the first hour. The subsequent were not as obvious in my opinion.

I was ok with the 300 temp at 4 and 8 hours. I wanted to really bump the needle on the caramel taste. If overdid it I'd know next time to dial it back. That might be backwards approach, go light to heavy is cautious. I'm not cautious.

If I didn't like that sugar taste I wouldn't use it in my beer and two lbs is nothing cost wise.

I'm thinking it will be diluted taste-wise. 2lb in 5 gallons with 10 lbs of pilsner. I've never used carmel syrup either.

View attachment 1486261793716.jpg

 

[TandemTails]

Sounds awesome. I wonder if this would work well in a brown or scottish ale instead of pulling off a gallon of first runnings and boiling that down into a syrup to help bring out some caramel notes.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Sounds awesome. I wonder if this would work well in a brown or scottish ale instead of pulling off a gallon of first runnings and boiling that down into a syrup to help bring out some caramel notes.

Maybe. #chuckwagon and I were discussing toasting duration verses flavor profile. I've only done this at two stopping points. 4 and 8 hours. 8 being the first to throw into a beer.

A few things to consider as to what you want to do with this. In "Brewing like a Monk" they use caramel syrup for flavor and to dry-out bigger beers. My thoughts for this was doing these two things and not darkening the beer much. The Blonde recipe (which i made) in the book called for pilsner malt and Belgian candy sugar 10-20%. I didn't have candy sugar and I wanted to test this out. I'm speculating the sugar at 17% will really dry it out with some caramel, and toast with a little burnt sugar taste blended with low maltiness and aroma of pilsner malt. I think the caramel will stand out more than the malt itself. I normally use 2-row as my base malt, but in this case I didn't want the malt and toasted sugar competing.

I guess to answer you question is this. Do you get lots of flavor from the maillard reaction of boiling first runnings? My guess is yes. Do you need your beer dried out? Probably not. My thoughts are the toasted caramel flavor will not stand out noticeably as a bunch of crystal and roasted malts will do. Will it add complexity to your beer? Definitely Yes!

This is the first time I tried this and I'm not sure of the results. I like the toasted sugar taste, so I used it my beer. If didn't I probably would have used my Demarara Sugar. So, if you do it consider it an experiment.

Here some info on Brewing Sugars.

FWIW - Three weeks ago I made a ESB where I used demarara to dry out the beer because the only dry yeast I had on hand was Windsor and know it stops closer to 1.020. I wanted it drier. I'll take little bit of buttery caramel taste to go along with my ESB.
:rockin:

 

[Schlenkerla]

One point to note.... USE REFINED SUGAR!

.... people have used organic and it didn't caramelize properly. I saw this in the comments in toasting instruction link. See post #1

 

[wilserbrewer]

Thanks again, this seems a lot easier than boiling syrup and monitoring temperature.

Wonder what happens if you get lax on stirring every 30 minutes.....I'll likely report back with that answer lol.

 

[wilserbrewer]

White IPA?





Whatever you guys do, don't taste it hot.

Lol, thanks for the tip, the tongue burn of all time.

350 degree sugar ouch!!!!!

 

[wilserbrewer]

5 1/2 hours at 350 without stirring, less than an inch of agar to start overflowed the dish....
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1486352138.522747.jpg
Too well done?
Note to self, don't roast sugar while out at Super Bowl party.

What a $&@/!! Game!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Lol, thanks for the tip, the tongue burn of all time.

350 degree sugar ouch!!!!!

Sorry I didn't notice this earlier its supposed be 300F. Not 350F.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Lol, thanks for the tip, the tongue burn of all time.

350 degree sugar ouch!!!!!

I"m guessing you knew better NOT to taste it at 350F.

 

[Schlenkerla]

5 1/2 hours at 350 without stirring, less than an inch of agar to start overflowed the dish....
View attachment 387834
Too well done?
Note to self, don't roast sugar while out at Super Bowl party.

What a $&@/!! Game!

What happened? You started this and forgot it was going and went out? If so,

Try, try again...

Good thing, is there's no more football. If you call in sick tomorrow, (hung over - or - sick of working) do it during coffee time. 2-4 lbs max temp 300F and 4 hours, after a 1 hour heat soak, stir every 30 minutes, up to 4 hours. I used a pulled pork bear claw to break-up/stir the sugar. Works good. I think an ordinary fork would work too.

Let it cool 2 hours then taste it, see if you like the caramel flavor.

As for now, drink up!

 

[The_Bishop]

I just toasted up about a cup of sugar to try this out, 300F for two hours. Nice caramel notes, kind of subtle. Used a bit to make a latte, added a great caramel/dulce de leche back note to the frothed milk.

 

[jurgenph]

Ironically, this is what I drank during my brew session. Brewed by the lady-folks of Belgium.

Deliria

now i want one of these

going to have to try the toasted sugar as well in one of my blondes.

any tasting notes on how it turned out?


J.

 

[BarkingSpider]

Once upon a time... :-D https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=582317

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sorry I didn't notice this earlier its supposed be 300F. Not 350F.

Ok, thanks buddy....I think that's why I now have a burnt sugar cow pie in the bottom of my oven lol. Running out now to rent a jackhammer to expedite removal before trying this again. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1486419194.101816.jpg

 

[Schlenkerla]

Wow, is all I can say!!!!

 

[wilserbrewer]

No problem, the burnt sugar cow pie was easily removed with a metal flat spatula in about three minutes.

Will try again when I get some more sugar.

I think next time I'll keep an eye on it.

Still a wonderful aroma 24 hrs later

 

[Schlenkerla]

No problem, the burnt sugar cow pie was easily removed with a metal flat spatula in about three minutes.

Will try again when I get some more sugar.

I think next time I'll keep an eye on it.

Still a wonderful aroma 24 hrs later

Is that last line sarcasm? I've never burnt that much sugar.

 

[wilserbrewer]

No sarcasm. It actually smelled nice in the house when I got home from work.

 

[Schlenkerla]

You created your own aroma therapy....