High pressure to low pressure possible?

[drkwoods]

does anyone know if this burner can be modified to burn successfully on low pressure? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00433EMI6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have two of these burners and I have two HoneyWell VR8200 Valves and the pilots.. im in a dilema. these valves wont work on high pressure LP..
should I try drilling my Burner orifice?
FWIW, I have the mid 90's version of these bruners and they are really nice and powerful so id like to keep them. i was also thinking i could change over to Valvesforprojects Valves and run all high pressure but for safety maybe add the Honeywell intermittant Pilot controls. but im all ears??

 

[drkwoods]

Here's some pics of burner up close. Its a single jet tube with a single orifice at the bottom which is drilled in a brass cap at the end of a 3/8" pipe.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

the orifice is nothing more than a drilled cap... experiment

 

[drkwoods]

Here's my experimentation pics. I picked up two additional brass caps but when drilled out they act different then the originals drilled with the same bit.. wierd? too much orange? the first pic is the only pic at 20psi, the rest are at .5psi

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

looking good... when you have it all figured out, let me know...
question: is it as noisy at it looks?

 

[drkwoods]

i dont understand how the 3/32 orifices respond differently just cause the cap is larger? hmmm. Next question is should I drill larger or maybe drill more than one hole? or should I give up and go with High pressure valves with Intermittant ignition modules?

 

[drkwoods]

looking good... when you have it all figured out, let me know...
question: is it as noisy at it looks?

the high pressure (20psi) situation is very loud. Ive been brewing like that for many years and firing it up at 6am is a no no.. the lower pressure system im trying to set up now is probably 75% less noise. But you can see that going to Low pressure is giving me a lot of yellow on those flames. Im trying to dial that in by providing additional air to the mix

 

[cwi]

Those burners are a nightmare. They were popular years ago as rafting stoves, mainly due to the small size. They were also universally hated due to the noise. No sleeping in once coffee water was started, or talking when cooking dinner. They are also very inefficient. You could cover the cost of replacing them with Banjo burners with the LP/NG savings.

Don't try to use those at high output on aluminum. They will burn a hole right through the bottom of the pot. You will actually get more total heat into the pot using a lower power burner like a Banjo.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

With Banjo burners, the pump is louder than the burner. We have to look to see if it's on.

 

[cwi]

I was describing talking or sleeping anywhere in camp, which is usually 40-50 yards away from where the "blaster" was placed. Someone would usually fire it up, then run back to camp covering their ears. No way I would stay 3 feet from one of those things for a 4+ hour brew day.

 

[day_trippr]

With Banjo burners, the pump is louder than the burner. We have to look to see if it's on.

This is true. Indeed, I ran a tank dry the last brew and didn't notice it for at least five minutes, maybe longer...

Cheers!

 

[drkwoods]

"Those burners are a nightmare. They were popular years ago as rafting stoves, mainly due to the small size"

I think your thinking of something else.. these are KingKookers early 1990's model #C90PBK They are portable but only in the bed of a truck and they weigh about 10 pounds each befor I cut them up and welded only the jet tube portion to my Brew Stand. I have been brewing using these since 1994 on SS Keggles. I'm trying to get more air in the mix but Im still stuck with half the flame being yellow.
(this pic here is running on 20psi LP)

 

[cwi]

"Those burners are a nightmare. They were popular years ago as rafting stoves, mainly due to the small size"

I think your thinking of something else.. these are KingKookers early 1990's model #C90PBK They are portable but only in the bed of a truck and they weigh about 10 pounds each befor I cut them up and welded only the jet tube portion to my Brew Stand. I have been brewing using these since 1994 on SS Keggles. I'm trying to get more air in the mix but Im still stuck with half the flame being yellow.
(this pic here is running on 20psi LP)

A hole drilled in the supply pipe mounted inside of another pipe? That is exactly the burner I was thinking of, and exactly what you have, regardless of where you bought it. Woodland's Power Stove, Blaster, Jet, Partner, Bayou, homemade, King Kooker etc., they are all the same. Some used the exact model you have, some a bigger one, and some a smaller folding version. I was talking earlier more about the actual burner size, though.

There isn't much to most burners, and even less to this type. Does yours have a secret compartment to hold magic fairy dust or something?

There is no easy way to get more air in those burners. There is no damper, and you are losing a lot of the venturi effect with the low pressure. They run like they run. You would have to get more air to flow through the surrounding pipe. There are ways, but regardless of your time, it's not even worth my time to explain it. Those things are designed to run one way, wide open.

You will save yourself a lot of headache by going with a set of Banjo burners for ~$100 for 3. Not only will they run on low pressure LP/NG, you will even be able to run them from a low simmer, to a raging inferno.

As for portability when rafting- I usually have trouble getting everything I carry in my raft to fit into my suburban, and that is before my passengers show up with their gear. Rafters love their comfort. My JPW Silverback Paco Pad I sleep on is bigger rolled up than 2 of your stoves. I just thought of a cool river idea. There is time on my 21 day Grand Canyon floats to do an on river brew, and have it ready to drink before the trip is over.

This is not of me, but is a typical load, if not a little light. I don't even see any beers out, and that is usually 1/3 of my load by weight.

 

[cwi]

So add this to the other boat-
Not me, again, so save your BMC wisecracks, though I do consume swill while rafting. That is a guy with the typical 2 person ration of beer for an 18 day Grand Canyon trip. There is always some dehydrated beer for emergencies, also. I have always brought a healthy supply of Dale's Pale and the like, but there wasn't much available in cans until recently. I do bring a large quantity of Tecate as my choice for the daytime session beers. That stuff is magic. It doesn't skunk/turn after days of heat/cold cycling. PBR is the opposite.

 

[drkwoods]

Holy Sh^T !! That's a ton of stuff. I think I'll start investigating the Banjos as drilling the jet tube for more air isn't working. I'm looking at these cause of price and ease of installation. I don't need to drill or alter the orifice. http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400000/

If I go banjos. Don't I need to alter them to run on low pressure LP and Honeywell valves?

 

[cwi]

Holy Sh^T !! That's a ton of stuff. I think I'll start investigating the Banjos as drilling the jet tube for more air isn't working. I'm looking at these cause of price and ease of installation. I don't need to drill or alter the orifice. BURNER CAST LOW PRESSURE MULTI-HOLE 6 - Agri Supply

If I go banjos. Don't I need to alter them to run on low pressure LP and Honeywell valves?

For your "jet" burners, drilling the hole larger won't get more air, just more gas, since that is all that is in the supply pipe. You will actually get less air the larger the hole is. The problem is dialing in the venturi effect for the orifice size which is difficult with that design, if a hole in gas pipe can be called a design.

RE: the linked 6" banjo- Those work, as do the 10" (BG-14). It depends on the use and pot size. Some are using the 6" as the high power burner (BK, HLT) since the flame at high output is more concentrated and doesn't bloom up the side of the pot as bad. Then they use the 10" for a direct fired MLT to get a nice diffuse low flame for even heating. I only have the 10", but want to try that approach for the BK to get better gas efficiency and less burnt fingers and valves. The 10" is large, even for a ~20" pot. The 6" should still put out more heat than is necessary, and actually get more into the pot. No first hand knowledge of that, though.

You may still have to drill the orifice, it all depends on what low pressure means to you, Honeywell, and Banjo. For testing this can be done, and redone, by soldering the orifice. Personally, I would run the highest pressure allowed by the valves, and dial in the burner orifice in to that.

I thought the pressure was somewhat adjustable on some Honeywell models. Just a spring and/or orifice change. If you are stuck with low pressure only, natural gas is a lot more convenient and cheaper. If you have access to it, that is.

No matter which setup you choose, you will need an adjustable regulator and/or needle valve if you want any flame adjustment. Balls valves are not suitable for flow control.

 

[drkwoods]

yea Ive been drilling the side of the jet tube (not the orifice) after I settled in on a 1/8" drilled orifice. Ive added 8 pretty big holes around the bottom (for air flow) and still not working well. So i think i'll grab these 6" burners and install them. I already have the honeywell VR8200 valves installed.. Im wondering how much pressure those valves can handle and still open/close safely? Im stuck with Propane its simply more convenient for me and more mobile out on the driveway. For an adjustable reg what's best 0-5psi for this?

 

[cwi]

For an adjustable reg what's best 0-5psi for this?

The answer depends on too many things. If you don't use needle valves, your reg must be more accurate and precise.

In general, one with a range a bit bigger than your max pressure works best. The larger the range, the less precise it is (in general).

The best solution is a needle valve for every burner. That way, regardless of how crappy or fancy your regulator is, or how big the range is, you can compensate to some extent.

The biggest consideration is to make sure the total flow rating at your pressure is sufficient for 2-3 burners running simultaneously. There are several threads, and people with experience with this specific situation. Searching for a thread about your valve model may yield info.

 

[kladue]

If you have the honeywell valves then you should look for a Marshall 290 regulator from an RV supply house or local dealer. The honeywell valves will lock closed if the inlet pressure is above .5 PSI, so an adjustable regulator is not the way to go as their low pressure regulation is poor, the 2 stage low pressure regulators are the ticket.
With the 10" burners from Agri supply and conversion valves from Williams, it is a plug and play setup, add yellow water heater flex gas lines from the big box building supply folks and you are set.
For a transformer look for a 75 VA transformer that can handle 2 valves at the same time, a 40 VA is just a bit too small for 2.

 

[cwi]

There is your info, and why I mentioned looking at what Honeywell considers low pressure. You will find even more info searching for your valve model, though most will end with this same answer by kladue, yuri rage, or the like. That is why I recommended searching.

The conversion valves give you a needle valve and orifice in one package, but some don't allow separating the two. If your rig doesn't have convenient access to the orifice/valve to adjust the flame, you might consider separate components. Either way, lose the ball valves. They are almost useless for flame control, at least on HP LP.

Those Honeywell pilot/valve combos seem like a pain to me. I thought they had some pressure adjustment, but it makes sense if they don't as they are made specifically to idiot proof household stuff like water heaters using NG.

Are they still the preferred method if you want protection from a raw gas/flame-out situation? Is there another valve (like those electric pilot ones) that handles ~10psi - .5psi, and has flame sensing?