Help with my Pliny!

[foste1cc]

So I made a Pliny yesterday, 6th all-grain. Made a yeast starter a few days before, with good foaming/bubbles, but pitched the yeast yesterday around 2pm. Its now the next morning, and there's NO action what so ever. no bubbles, no foam, no nothing.

First time it's taking this long.,,, should I re-pitch some yeast? I did see the yeast was 130 days old, so that's why I made the starter. Starter looked good and right while it was working...,,, hmmm.......

Really hope I didn't screw something up here..

 

[Dcpcooks]

Your in the lag phase which can take up to 72 hours.

130 day old yeast probably has some dead cells and lower viability. Without plugging the data into a spreadsheet I'd say you did underpitch. That will extend the lag phase.

I'd keep the fermentor at 66 degrees for the first week or so. It may take a little longer to finish the batch.

You could pitch another pack of yeast if you can get a pack of yeast.

 

[foste1cc]

Thanks for the fast reply. You gave me a little hope that I may not have ruined it. my HBS is about 30 min away, should I go grab another pack this morning and pitch it? Or wait it out another day?

It's been 18 hours since pitching.

 

[Tarpon87]

How would you know they under pitched without knowing the size of the batch, the size of the starter, what yeast was used......?
You shouldn't have much of a lag phase or under pitch with a starter....that's the point of making one

 

[foste1cc]

Hmm.., that's kind of what I thought.
The batch was a 5g, and for the starter I used 2L w/ 450g DME on a stir plate for 48hrs. The yeast was supposed to be 1056, but the guy at the HBS gave me something "similiar" because they were out of the 1056, and I'm rushing to find the receipt so I can see exactly what type of yeast. Kicking myself for not remembering.

Also while on the stir plate, there was LOTS of foaming. to the point of some coming up over the top, so I was somewhat sure the starter was working..

 

[foste1cc]

Is there any harm in adding more yeast? If not, I'll probably do that. Should I go with 2 packs?

Possibility?? : I kind of rushed the whirlpool at the end and didn't give everything a ton of time to settle, so I got quite a bit of trub in my fermenter, and also didn't wait for that to settle before pitching the yeast. Is it possible my yeast just got buried under all the trub?

 

[Yooper]

Is there any harm in adding more yeast? If not, I'll probably do that. Should I go with 2 packs?

Possibility?? : I kind of rushed the whirlpool at the end and didn't give everything a ton of time to settle, so I got quite a bit of trub in my fermenter, and also didn't wait for that to settle before pitching the yeast. Is it possible my yeast just got buried under all the trub?

No, the yeast know where to find the fermentables. If you made a decent starter, it will be fine. It should get going today. It hasn't even been 24 hours, so wait for a bit.

 

[foste1cc]

UPDATE: I'm an impatient homebrewer.

Just went and looked again and saw my first bubble in the airlock, and could finally start seeing the first signs of churning. Fingers crossed this turns into an awesome brew!

 

[Dcpcooks]

How would you know they under pitched without knowing the size of the batch, the size of the starter, what yeast was used......?
You shouldn't have much of a lag phase or under pitch with a starter....that's the point of making one

Pliny is around 1.080. The yeast is 120 days old so that's roughly 20% viability. So that adds up to an under pitch. It's pretty straight forward to see how an old pitch could be a problem. A starter won't double your yeast size. So a fresh pack with a 2l starter will yield roughly 205b cells this beer should have roughly 280b cells. Factor in poor yeast health from the old yeast and it's suggestive of an underpitch.


View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1505136401.094460.jpg

 

[foste1cc]

Do you suggest I pitch another pack? I learned something new here. I thought as long as I made a starter that it didn't matter the age of the yeast (relatively)

 

[Yooper]

Do you suggest I pitch another pack? I learned something new here. I thought as long as I made a starter that it didn't matter the age of the yeast (relatively)

No, since it's going it's fine!

Age of the yeast does matter, but the viability is just a guess. If you had a very active starter, and a large enough starter, it'll be fine. Ideally, you'd have made a larger starter for optimum reassurance but it's all going to be fine here. Don't worry!

 

[foste1cc]

Cheers to you!

 

[chickypad]

Sounds like it's going fine now so as mentioned just let it ride. For the future though you want your starters to be in the 1.035-1.040 range. Almost a pound in 2 L is a ton, giving you around 1.080+. A good rule of thumb is 1 gram of DME per 10 ml of water so 200g in your 2L starter.

 

[foste1cc]

Thanks for the info! I thought it seemed like a lot too. I used the brewers friend yeast calculator and that's the number it told me. I must have punched in some wrong numbers or made an error.

 

[Tarpon87]

Pliny is around 1.080. The yeast is 120 days old so that's roughly 20% viability. So that adds up to an under pitch. It's pretty straight forward to see how an old pitch could be a problem. A starter won't double your yeast size. So a fresh pack with a 2l starter will yield roughly 205b cells this beer should have roughly 280b cells. Factor in poor yeast health from the old yeast and it's suggestive of an underpitch.

Yes I'm well aware how yeast starters work, but since he gave very little information you made a bunch of assumptions for an under pitch. How do you know this wasn't a 1g batch? How do you know he didn't use a calculator and step up his starters? You don't, thanks for the lesson though.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Yes I'm well aware how yeast starters work, but since he gave very little information you made a bunch of assumptions for an under pitch. How do you know this wasn't a 1g batch? How do you know he didn't use a calculator and step up his starters? You don't, thanks for the lesson though.

Yes I made assumptions that I shouldn't of in hindsight. I was just trying to help the guy out.

 

[Burndog]

You may also want to consider getting a defuser and a bottle of Oxygen. I've done this on my last two batches and the results are dramatic.

Drinking a nice Pliny at the moment built from Bertus Breweries Pliny 4.0 recipe. Sooo good.

Yeast was Super Sandiego 009 I believe.

 

[foste1cc]

Was able to track down the yeast I used. It was West coast 004.

And I did invest in a SS airstone and HEPA inline filters. Been using the O2 tank from our welder.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Working late, so it'll be a couple hours until I can check it out and see the progression it made since this morning.

 

[foste1cc]

Holy Moses!!! This thing TOOK OFF while I was at work. To the point there's so much foam on top now it went through the air lock!
This is the first time this has happened. I don't have a blow off tube. What should I do??

 

[seatazzz]

If you can't rig a blowoff tube, go ahead and remove the airlock and clean it out good (cover the fermenter with some sanitized foil while you do this), then re-insert the airlock. You may have to do this again until the initial fermentation slows down a bit, but it sounds like you're doing well so far. FWIW, the easiest way to make a blowoff tube is with an old 3-piece airlock; take off the cap and the upside-down thing inside the airlock, fit some tubing over the tube in the airlock, and drop the other end of the tube in a growler 3/4 full of sanitizer.

 

[foste1cc]

perfect! thanks for the fast reply! I took the airlock off and cleaned it, and literally within 10 seconds it was filled up again. I'll look in to getting a blow off tube first thing in the morning. If i can't rig one up i'll drive down the the LHBS. At least I guess I don't need to worry about my pliny not fermenting anymore..

 

[foste1cc]

Whats worse case if I don't blow up my carboy? I just make a bit of a mess and lose a little foam? Or are there key ingredients in the foam that return back in to the beer?

 

[chickypad]

Well, you could end up cleaning krausen off your ceiling. I think I have a pic somewhere if you don't believe me
The beer will be fine.

 

[foste1cc]

FWIW, the easiest way to make a blowoff tube is with an old 3-piece airlock; take off the cap and the upside-down thing inside the airlock, fit some tubing over the tube in the airlock, and drop the other end of the tube in a growler 3/4 full of sanitizer.

Did this and it's working great! Saved me a trip to the store. I did lose a lot of trub that was coming up with the krausen inbetween all the overflows/air lock cleanings/rigging of the blowoff tube. Hoping it won't effect the beer in any way.

Hopefully it's smooth sailin from here

 

[Dcpcooks]

[emoji106] good news

 

[Tommydee]

You may also want to consider getting a defuser and a bottle of Oxygen. I've done this on my last two batches and the results are dramatic.

Drinking a nice Pliny at the moment built from Bertus Breweries Pliny 4.0 recipe. Sooo good.

Yeast was Super Sandiego 009 I believe.

I also used WLP090 on my first DIPA, which happens to be Pliney, and loving it as well..

Also had issues with stuck and slow fermentation on my first ever all grain and stout...also went to O2 diffuser, and have had very good fermentation results ever since.

 

[user 125772]

Hmm.., that's kind of what I thought.
The batch was a 5g, and for the starter I used 2L w/ 450g DME on a stir plate for 48hrs.

Also while on the stir plate, there was LOTS of foaming. to the point of some coming up over the top, so I was somewhat sure the starter was working..

450 grams for 2Liters? ,I think the recommended ratio is 10:1. (1000ML of water to 100 grams of DME)

Sounds like it was active. how was the temperature match (wort vs starter)?

 

[foste1cc]

I realize I messed up the starter gravity. I must have put something in wrong on the calculator. I did miss my OG by .01, so maybe my starter will add a little to my batch.

Temp difference was about 10°F. With the starter being around 67 and wort being at 78

 

[user 125772]

FWIW, the easiest way to make a blowoff tube is with an old 3-piece airlock; take off the cap and the upside-down thing inside the airlock, fit some tubing over the tube in the airlock, and drop the other end of the tube in a growler 3/4 full of sanitizer.

Good advise, but I question the "3/4 full of sanitizer" ... that doesn't leave much room for blowoff, and the way his Pliney is going, he's going to need some space, or he'll be cleaning the floor in short order.