Help me make a sparkling, semi-sweet, age-able bottled cider

[FunkyMunk]

I just pressed 5+ gallons of juice from a mix of Gravenstein and mystery apples. The last time I made this cider, it came out amazing, using Wyeast cider yeast and stalling fermentation at around 1.010. I let a gallon dry out to around 1.004, and it tasted good when young, but after about a year in the bottle, it had a lot of sediment and tasted a bit off. I believe after some investigation that autolysis (or possibly contamination) might have occurred, which I guess means I bottled too early, even though it spent 2 months undisturbed in a gallon glass jug (it's possible I racked some of the sediment).

I want to replicate the semi-sweet version of this as reliably as possible, in a bottled version that I can age. I can force-carb using a keg, so I'm leaning towards the stabilize/backsweeten route, vs the bottle-carb/pasteurize route.

- Am I going to lose out on any benefits of bottle carbing? People talk about the quality of the carbonation being different. I have some experience with this in beer. If the bottle carbed version is significantly better then I would consider doing that instead.

- For backsweetening, I don't want to use FAJC, lactose, or any artificial sweeteners (which to me taste uniformly terrible). I'd rather use something more neutral, but am not sure how to choose amongst, say, sucrose, Belgian candi sugar, dextrose (corn sugar), or honey (which I'm not opposed to even though it's not really neutral). Any thoughts?

- What's the soonest I should aim to have this ready to bottle? I wouldn't mind having something ready to drink around Thanksgiving, which would mean bulk aging for 2-3 months post-ferment. I'm thinking that as long as it's clear, it could be stabilized, backsweetened, and carbed; I could drink a bit on tap and bottle the rest from there. However, I recently tried bulk aging a dry cider for about 6 months (using D-47 yeast) and liked the results, but would prefer it slightly sweeter. I would like to be able to give bottles as gifts, let some age a year or more, and not lose quality in the bottle. Also, I'm using Cotes Des Blanc yeast this time, and have no experience with this yeast but I'm wondering if cider made with wine yeast inherently benefits from longer bulk aging, and whether bottle aging provides a fair approximation.

I guess that's a lot of info and questions for now. I have a good amount of experience making cider but have only tried backsweetening once, with FAJC, and wasn't crazy about it. I've also only bottled completely dry ciders, but my favorite ciders are both carbed and semi-sweet. Despite my research I haven't really gotten satisfying answers to the above questions, hence this post. I'd really appreciate any experienced cider makers willing to share their wisdom. Cheers!

 

[Maylar]

Kegging gives you a lot of control over both sweetness and carbonation levels. Some people claim bottle conditioning with corn sugar makes tiny champagne-like bubbles, but I've never noticed a difference. The ability to choose my sweetener and not worry about bottle bombs makes the keg well worth the expense.

I age my ciders in glass bottles with an airlock and topped up to the neck to minimize head space. Adding a bit of potassium metabisulfite gives me confidence that they'll be ok for months. At kegging time the cider will be crystal clear, a bit more sulfite and the recommended dose of potassium sorbate stabilizes the cider for sweetening. I usually use FAJC but straight table sugar works too.

 

[FunkyMunk]

Thanks, it sounds like maybe the type of sugar used to backsweetened doesn't make a huge difference. I think I'll rack to a 5 gallon carboy for the first stage of aging, then split it up and drink/gift some around Thanksgiving and age the rest until the spring or later. Is there a point to bulk aging besides clearing the cider before bottling? I'm sure some aging will still occur in the bottle, but I'd rather clear it as much as possible before the last bottling.

 

[madscientist451]

If you are kegging and drinking pints, small differences like the size of the bubbles aren't going to matter after the first glass or two. If you are entering in competitions or like to pour 3 oz servings and ponder how great your cider is or isn't, then bottle conditioning may be the way to go.

 

[Maylar]

I age my cider in glass carboys. How long depends on when the previous batch gets consumed, but typically 4-6 months. I just started a keg with the latest batch, started back in November last year and racked for aging about February. I will bottle from the keg on an as-needed basis, typically a 6-er at a time, for friends or picnics. Bottles don't last long enough to call it "aging" if ya knowwutimean.

 

[FunkyMunk]

All right... So my cider is looking good, and almost ready for kegging. I just backsweetened with sucrose after aging in a glass carboy for about 2 months (after a 1 month primary) then racking and adding k-meta and sorbate. It's pretty clear, even though I didn't cold crash it. I've also been very careful to avoid oxidation.

I was amazed at what a difference just a little bit of backsweetening made. I only brought it from 1.001 to 1.008 or so, and that little bit of sweetness really balanced it out, whereas before it seemed overly sour and harsh by a bit. I don't seem to detect any off flavors from the additions. I was surprised to find that even the aroma seems better now. It has retained a lot of apple character, which I attribute to the Cotes Des Blanc yeast. I'm excited to try it chilled and carbed.

I plan to force carbonate and fill a few bottles from the keg. I will probably age a few bottles just to see what will happen. I'm curious if others have experience aging cider that has been stabilized with sulfite/sorbate and backsweetened with sugar. I've read that over time the sorbate will break down and potentially contribute off flavors. It will be interesting to see if the cider changes over time, whether for better or worse. Cheers!

 

[WesBrew]

I used a wlp001 beer yeast to leave some residual sweetness and it came out perfect. force carbed in keg. no back sweeten to worry about.

 

[FunkyMunk]

I used a wlp001 beer yeast to leave some residual sweetness and it came out perfect. force carbed in keg. no back sweeten to worry about.

How much residual sweetness did it leave (FG)? Did you have to do anything differently to get it to leave residual sweetness, like lower the temp?

 

[WesBrew]

1.010, I left it in fermentor another day so I could have been 1.009 fairly high attenuator for beer. I had it fermenting at 67 degrees. it was smooth, a hint of sweet, then it washed down cleanly.no sugary taste lingering. having it well carbonated got it dry enough to where it was refreshing to drink a lot of it on a hot day, which my relatives did.

 

[MarkKF]

I consider 1.010 sweet. I shoot for 1.004-1.008. Dry is less than 1.000!

But I’ve seen commercial ciders up near 1.020 called semi-sweet. Huh?

 

[Maylar]

I consider 1.010 sweet. I shoot for 1.004-1.008. Dry is less than 1.000!

But I’ve seen commercial ciders up near 1.020 called semi-sweet. Huh?

I just entered one of my ciders in a local competition, and one judge called it cloyingly sweet. It was only 1.010.

 

[FunkyMunk]

I consider 1.010 sweet. I shoot for 1.004-1.008. Dry is less than 1.000!

Your tastes align with mine. This is my first time backsweetening cider (I've also done one mead) and I used a bench trial to balance the sweetness with the acidity, which I suspect was rather high in this batch due to the apples used. (I really need to start measuring titratable acidity.)

I actually just came across this (https://ciderassociation.org/what-is-dry/) [I added SG conversions, but I don't understand why they give different values for RS and Brix, since I thought they were equivalent]:

The current levels used by GLINTCAP to delineate dryness are:

• Dry — Below 0.9% RS (Below 1.0 Brix) [<1.0039 for reference]
  
• Semi-Dry — 0.9%-1.8% RS (1.0-1.8 Brix) [1.0039-1.007]
  
• Semi-Sweet — 1.8-4.5% RS (1.8-4.3 Brix) [1.007-1.0169]
  
• Sweet — Above 4.5% RS (Above 4.3 Brix) [<1.0169]

Another scale used in the industry with the goal of being “consumer-friendly” is:

• Dry — ≤1% RS [<1.004?]
  
• Semi-Dry — 1.1-2.0% RS [1.0043-1.0078?]
  
• Semi-Sweet — 2.1-3.0% RS [1.0082-1.0117?]
• Sweet — >3.0% RS [<1.0117?]

I would say my own personal scale aligns better with the second scale. However, ultimately what I would consider a "good" cider really depends on balance, i.e. how well the sweetness offsets the acid and tannin. Thus, my original intent wasn't necessarily to create a "semi-sweet" cider per se, but just to backsweeten this cider to achieve this balance, and let it fall wherever it fell in the dry-->sweet spectrum. Which, in this case I guess happens to be right in the middle of semi-dry and semi-sweet.

 

[WesBrew]

I guess I'm on the semi-sweet side according to the scale. I would say mine tasted a little sweet when it was still. The carbonation dried it out, made it much more crisp. personally, I wouldn't want it any drier than I made it, would be too much like wine.