Help, is this mold?

[newpain01]

Hey everyone!

I brewed a hefe around 10 days ago and it was in the fermenter until now, got ready to keg it and saw this. I first checked the gravity without opening the bucket and it was a 1.06, then tasted it and it tasted ok, like a hefe but had some chunks floating in it. When I opened the bucket, I saw the white stuff on top, not sure if it's mold and if beer is drinkable?

Edit: It does look like Kahm yeast.

 

[day_trippr]

Whether mold (probably) or bacteria or some really wild yeast, that is a science project.

 

[newpain01]

Found this thread with a very similar stuff: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/my-triple-has-mold.344275/

I gave it a good sniff and it had a nice banana smell, so I kegged it (I have a tap on the bucket, so it drained from the bottom and dumped the white stuff out). Will let it sit in the fridge for a while and give it another try. Can always dump it if it's not good.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Found this thread with a very similar stuff: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/my-triple-has-mold.344275/

I gave it a good sniff and it had a nice banana smell, so I kegged it (I have a tap on the bucket, so it drained from the bottom and dumped the white stuff out). Will let it sit in the fridge for a while and give it another try. Can always dump it if it's not good.

You already have money and time invested in it so see how it tastes after keg conditioning it. Worst thing is you dump it but at least you'll know for sure.

We have all had a batch that turned into fertilizer.

 

[worlddivides]

It looks more like mold to me than bacteria (though it could be an odd-looking pellicle since there's a pretty big range of how bacteria pellicles look). We all know that there are tons of bacteria that we humans eat and drink (yogurt and sourdough being famous examples outside of stuff like sour beer and kombucha), but there are also edible molds as well (such as the koji molds in Japan that are used to make soy sauce, miso, sake, and a ridiculous number of other fermented foods and beverages). That said, there are more bad molds than good ones, so I'd be careful.

 

[whoaru99]

That said, there are more bad molds than good ones, so I'd be careful.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...an-live-in-beer-confirmed.397067/post-4997864

 

[newpain01]

Thanks for the feedback!

Any ideas what could cause this?

The batch before this one also went bad, but it was much worse, it had green mold all over the top and smelled bad, had to dump it. It was in the fermenter for around 2 weeks.

I think I caught this one early. I noticed there was no airlock activity whatsoever, so I am assuming the lid wasn't sealing well, could that cause the mold? These new brewing buckets I got have terrible seals on the lids.

I've had 20-30 successful batches prior, never had something like this happen. I am cleaning my equipment with hot steaming water and dish soap or PBW and then sanitizing everything with StarSan. I do not touch anything with dirty hands.

 

[Ninoid]

I recently had the same case, I poured that beer and here I am drinking it right now and it's good. As someone already said, pour the beer from the bottom of the fermenter, and throw a few centimeters of it on top (don't reuse that yeast for the next batch) and the beer will be good.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Thanks for the feedback!

Any ideas what could cause this?

The batch before this one also went bad, but it was much worse, it had green mold all over the top and smelled bad, had to dump it. It was in the fermenter for around 2 weeks.

I think I caught this one early. I noticed there was no airlock activity whatsoever, so I am assuming the lid wasn't sealing well, could that cause the mold? These new brewing buckets I got have terrible seals on the lids.

I've had 20-30 successful batches prior, never had something like this happen. I am cleaning my equipment with hot steaming water and dish soap or PBW and then sanitizing everything with StarSan. I do not touch anything with dirty hands.

Infections can turn up in the tiniest of spots. I would take everything apart on your fermenter, clean everything then clean again. Soaking in a good cleaner like PBW, run a brush through the valve. Closely inspect every part. After a good rinse and dry sanitize everything.

Plastic fermenters can harbor potential issues with any little scratch, look closely at the inside surfaces. Check the lid and gasket.

I had an infection that ruined two batches of beer. There was a small piece of gunk in the radius of a fitting on the valve. After removing that I didn't have any more issues. It was cleaned several times before but it didn't touch that small area. It doesn't take much to wreck a batch of beer!

 

[Broothru]

Whether mold (probably) or bacteria or some really wild yeast, that is a science project.

Did somebody hear Dr. Frankenstein scream, “It’s alive!!!”

 

[Dgallo]

Hey everyone!

I brewed a hefe around 10 days ago and it was in the fermenter until now, got ready to keg it and saw this. I first checked the gravity without opening the bucket and it was a 1.06, then tasted it and it tasted ok, like a hefe but had some chunks floating in it. When I opened the bucket, I saw the white stuff on top, not sure if it's mold and if beer is drinkable?

Edit: It does look like Kahm yeast.

That’s a pellicle that is formed by a wild yeast/bacteria infection. Could be a great beer could be awful. If you’re fortunate to have good local flora it could be really solid.

Id personally taste it now. If it’s awful dump, if it’s okay I’d close the bucket and move it some place with constant temps and let it go a month. Then I’d taste it again. If still good I’d probably fruit it at a lb/gallon of raspberry or blueberry and wait another 3 - 4 weeks then bottle

 

[newpain01]

That’s a pellicle that is formed by a wild yeast/bacteria infection. Could be a great beer could be awful. If you’re fortunate to have good local flora it could be really solid.

Id personally taste it now. If it’s awful dump, if it’s okay I’d close the bucket and move it some place with constant temps and let it go a month. Then I’d taste it again. If still good I’d probably fruit it at a lb/gallon of raspberry or blueberry and wait another 3 - 4 weeks then bottle

It's not in a bucket anymore, I kegged it the same evening when I opened this thread. Let it sit in the fridge on CO2 for a few days and tried it yesterday, it tasted good, but not great. It was a little watery and a little flat (not enough CO2), so I bumped the CO2 to 35psi and let it sit more. It's definitely drinkable and it's better than some beers I've had at local breweries.

 

[Dgallo]

It's not in a bucket anymore, I kegged it the same evening when I opened this thread. Let it sit in the fridge on CO2 for a few days and tried it yesterday, it tasted good, but not great. It was a little watery and a little flat (not enough CO2), so I bumped the CO2 to 35psi and let it sit more. It's definitely drinkable and it's better than some beers I've had at local breweries.

That’s good. Not for your local breweries though lol if an infected beer taste better than their offerings lol

 

[newpain01]

That’s good. Not for your local breweries though lol if an infected beer taste better than their offerings lol

LOL, yeah. I'm not sure how "infected" it is, but it turned out just fine. The local breweries have some weird offerings, or maybe I'm just too picky and looking for specific stuff.

 

[IslandLizard]

These new brewing buckets I got have terrible seals on the lids.

The bucket looks like regular Ropak, made from white #2 plastic (PE, PolyEthylene).
If not, can you post a link to those buckets and lids?

On most of those buckets, the lids must be pressed down quite hard, going around all the way, so they snap over the bucket's rim. They must be "pried off" to remove them.
Mine seal very well, I can even pressurize them.

I have a tap on the bucket, so it drained from the bottom and dumped the white stuff out

Have you taken those bucket spigots completely apart and thoroughly cleaned and sanitized them?
The rubber seals also need some close attention.

How about the valve on the kettle? They need to be regularly cleaned and taken apart too. Crud can build up inside.
Same for hoses, couplers, etc.

 

[Saunassa]

The plastic bucket spigot are cheap to purchase so tend to have one in my cabinet at all times. That way if I crack one I can replace it. If i am unsure if I can get it clean enough I have changed them out after I use the fermenter alot.
Cheap insurance considering the time and money in a batch.
Same as I keep a butterfly capper on hand in case my bench top one ever breaks during a bottling session. Same goes for bottling wand.

 

[newpain01]

The bucket looks like regular Ropak, made from white #2 plastic (PE, PolyEthylene).
If not, can you post a link to those buckets and lids?

On most of those buckets, the lids must be pressed down quite hard, going around all the way, so they snap over the bucket's rim. They must be "pried off" to remove them.
Mine seal very well, I can even pressurize them.


Have you taken those bucket spigots completely apart and thoroughly cleaned and sanitized them?
The rubber seals also need some close attention.

How about the valve on the kettle? They need to be regularly cleaned and taken apart too. Crud can build up inside.
Same for hoses, couplers, etc.

This is the bucket and this is the lid. These lids are especially hard to wash on the inside because they have a lot of small sections for support on the inside, it looks like a ring close to the edge. Hard to get a sponge in there to wash each of them, I will get rid of them. I was previously using similar buckets with nice flat lids that were easy to wash, will have to find something like that again.

Yes, I usually take the spigots apart and wash the parts, then throw them into a bucket with StarSan and let them soak for a while before installing. I also have a bag with new spigots and change them occasionally.

I also clean the valve on the kettle every time I wash the kettle, but those are some great suggestions, thanks for that! I will take everything apart and clean again.

 

[IslandLizard]

and this is the lid. These lids are especially hard to wash on the inside because they have a lot of small sections for support on the inside, it looks like a ring close to the edge. Hard to get a sponge in there to wash each of them, I will get rid of them.

Yeah, those lids are the pits, I wouldn't use them for fermentations. Those reinforcement sections/ridges are very hard to clean, that could very well be the reason of your infections. Their dark color (I have a few in blue) doesn't help spot dirt either.

The flatter Ropak lids (typically white), are smooth on the inside, with reinforcement sections/ridges on the outside. They pick up dust and grime like you won't believe. So still important to clean them too, but not as critical with the hard to clean ridges being on the outside.
I've found long bristle dish wash brushes to work well using a rotating and/or sweeping motion when cleaning those sections, while the long bristles reach down inside the deep rim. My mom taught me to always wash things submerged in warm (hot) soapy water using a brush.

I also clean the valve on the kettle every time I wash the kettle

Ah, good! Move that handle back and forth from open to 45° closed, while water/cleaner is streaming through.

Still won't hurt to take that valve apart every few brews, as some gunk can build up inside, behind the ball chamber. The 3-piece valves are the easiest to split.

After many years of use, one of my brew friends suddenly noticed a diacetyl flavor showing up in his beers. The cause was his kettle valve, having a black, tarry substance in and around the ball chamber: Pediococcus, well and alive! Even a gas burner doesn't seem to get that valve hot enough to kill all the bugs.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Lots of folks use buckets even after many years of brewing and replacing them with new ones. If you stick with the hobby and can afford it perhaps look at upgrading. There's lots of other options out there for a fermenter and most are a nice upgrade that will last a really long time. As you have read and seen for yourself, cleaning is a very important task.

 

[newpain01]

Yeah, those lids are the pits, I wouldn't use them for fermentations. Those reinforcement sections/ridges are very hard to clean, that could very well be the reason of your infections. Their dark color (I have a few in blue) doesn't help spot dirt either.

Exactly, those ridges are so hard to clean and I am sure there might be some gunk in there. Plus this lid is not sealing well, there was no airlock activity.

The flatter Ropak lids (typically white), are smooth on the inside, with reinforcement sections/ridges on the outside.

Right, before getting those new buckets/lids, I was using the white Ropak lids like this one.

Still won't hurt to take that valve apart every few brews, as some gunk can build up inside, behind the ball chamber. The 3-piece valves are the easiest to split.

I have not tried removing the inner piece out of the valve, wasn't sure that is possible. I remove the rubber washers, the nut on the inside and wash everything, use a small brush to wash the inner part of the valve while turning it. I've been cleaning the valves this way for the last few years and never had a failed batch, only the last two, so again I suspect that lid.

Lots of folks use buckets even after many years of brewing and replacing them with new ones. If you stick with the hobby and can afford it perhaps look at upgrading. There's lots of other options out there for a fermenter and most are a nice upgrade that will last a really long time. As you have read and seen for yourself, cleaning is a very important task.

I've been brewing for the last few years and I haven't found anything better than buckets. I've used glass and plastic carboys, buckets and a while ago I got a 7.9gal FermZilla All Rounder Fermenter and that thing was junk. The lid was so hard to open/close, wasn't sealing, was so difficult to handle and it doesn't have a spigot which I've found to be very useful for kegging and taking samples for gravity measurements.
I feel the only thing that might work better than the buckets would be the Anvil Bucket Fermenter - 7.5 Gallon, but I'm not paying close to $200 for a metal bucket.

 

[Dgallo]

Exactly, those ridges are so hard to clean and I am sure there might be some gunk in there. Plus this lid is not sealing well, there was no airlock activity.

Right, before getting those new buckets/lids, I was using the white Ropak lids like this one.

I have not tried removing the inner piece out of the valve, wasn't sure that is possible. I remove the rubber washers, the nut on the inside and wash everything, use a small brush to wash the inner part of the valve while turning it. I've been cleaning the valves this way for the last few years and never had a failed batch, only the last two, so again I suspect that lid.

I've been brewing for the last few years and I haven't found anything better than buckets. I've used glass and plastic carboys, buckets and a while ago I got a 7.9gal FermZilla All Rounder Fermenter and that thing was junk. The lid was so hard to open/close, wasn't sealing, was so difficult to handle and it doesn't have a spigot which I've found to be very useful for kegging and taking samples for gravity measurements.
I feel the only thing that might work better than the buckets would be the Anvil Bucket Fermenter - 7.5 Gallon, but I'm not paying close to $200 for a metal bucket.

A great inexpensive option are 7 gallon fermonsters. I strictly use those for all my regular ales and lagers (my wilds and funk I use their 3 gallon option)

If you go that route, buy the wrench for them and then if you are kegging you can follow my thread on how to turn it into a closed transferring vessel

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

 

[newpain01]

A great inexpensive option are 7 gallon fermonsters. I strictly use those for all my regular ales and lagers (my wilds and funk I use their 3 gallon option)

If you go that route, buy the wrench for them and then if you are kegging you can follow my thread on how to turn it into a closed transferring vessel

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

Thank you for sharing this. I did not know about the Fermonster. Picked one up today, will be fermenting my next batch in it.

 

[mac_1103]

I have not tried removing the inner piece out of the valve, wasn't sure that is possible

 

[newpain01]

View attachment 854442

Need to do that for my next batch, thanks for sharing the photo!