Does DME go bad?

[whoaru99]

I am fixing to make a starter but the DME I have is old, as in quite likely several years. Several being pretty wide open.

It's been stored in a closet at room temp. Was a 3lb bag that I had used some of so it has been opened but I had a closure of sort on the bag. Think one of those "chip clip" doohickeys.

Anyway, the stuff is now a brick. I have broken it into chunks and the correct amount weighed out.

Tasted it. Tastes sweet and slightly malty to me (it's Briess Golden Light).

As long as the chunks dissolve OK is it OK to use for starter (application of sanitizing procedures, of course)?

 

[mac_1103]

Seems like it should still be perfectly good as yeast food. And I guess it shouldn't impart any off flavors to your beer if you decant the supernatant before you pitch the starter into your wort, but I'd also guess that others might disagree on that point.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yup, it's fine to use, including for starters, chunks and all.

If you can break up the big ones into much smaller pieces, it will save you time dissolving them.
Stick them in a sturdy bag, and use a mallet, hammer, or heavy stick.

If the DME has turned green or smells musty, I'd probably toss it.

 

[whoaru99]

Okie-dokie, full speed ahead. Yeast is supposed to arrive today so I'll proceed with getting the starter fluid ready.

Have the water boiling, will pour off some of that to dissolve the DME, then adjust final volume to get the 4L I'm shooting for.

 

[whoaru99]

FWIW, the DME chunks dissolved more easily than I'd expected.

 

[grampamark]

As long as it hasn’t gotten a purple Mohawk and neck tattoos it hasn’t gone bad.

 

[Brew_Dude41]

As long as it hasn’t gotten a purple Mohawk and neck tattoos it hasn’t gone bad.

/\ Not always a sign of being bad, but a sure sign of questionable judgment poor decision making skills. Likely best to avoid anyway.

 

[IslandLizard]

FWIW, the DME chunks dissolved more easily than I'd expected.

Darn! Next time make sure they get enough moisture. That'll teach 'em!

 

[whoaru99]

Here's roughly 12 hours after pitch.

It seems darker than I recall for a "golden light" wort. But, maybe it's just the volume and the murkiness from the yeast?

The stir plate speed is set just to form a dimple on the surface as you see where the foam/krausen is.

This is in a house I keep at 50F when it is unoccupied. Is that too cold for doing a starter since it's the yeast we want, not the beer, so to speak?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

the DME I have is old, as in quite likely several years. Several being pretty wide open.

It seems darker than I recall for a "golden light" wort. But, maybe it's just the volume and the murkiness from the yeast?

and it was stored under conditions that would cause it to go stale quicker.

 

[whoaru99]

and it was stored under conditions that would cause it to go stale quicker.

Yeah, it certainly was older, no dispute, but as I mentioned it didn't smell bad, didn't look bad/off/dark in the package (other than not powder), and didn't taste bad.

I mention the appearance but the end game is the yeast. Not pitching the whole 4L, just slurry.

Do you think 50F is too cold to get good growth in 2-3 days?

 

[balrog]

Here's roughly 12 hours after pitch.

It seems darker than I recall for a "golden light" wort. But, maybe it's just the volume and the murkiness from the yeast?

The stir plate speed is set just to form a dimple on the surface as you see where the foam/krausen is.

This is in a house I keep at 50F when it is unoccupied. Is that too cold for doing a starter since it's the yeast we want, not the beer, so to speak?

View attachment 837676

50F is a bit chilly. I put a nightlight (4 watt) bulb next to mine and make a little housing to hold in warmth.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

it didn't smell bad, didn't look bad/off/dark in the package (other than not powder), and didn't taste bad.

It's plausible that color (rather than taste) is a good pre-cursor measurement for stale DME.

Back around 2015, BYO's Big Book of Homebrewing and Colby's Home Brew Recipe Bible described a simple technique for measuring DME/LME freshness using a wort color sample.

Without going into details, it looks like that the color of the "golden light" DME in the flask strongly suggests it's stale.

I have no idea as to whether or not that suggested staleness will reflect in the final beer.

 

[whoaru99]

50F is a bit chilly. I put a nightlight (4 watt) bulb next to mine and make a little housing to hold in warmth.

It's now moved to a small room with a space heater set to 65F

But, even in the couple hours since the picture in post #9 it has clearly gotten more foam/krausen, so it's starting to ramp up on it's own. It'll take a while for that 4L to get up to 65F, but if nothing else it should help it finish out a little more quickly.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have no idea as to whether or not that suggested staleness will reflect in the final beer.

I would doubt that as the OP said he would only pitch the (settled out) starter slurry.
But he probably needs to cold crash it to get it to settle out quickly and thoroughly. When dumping most of the supernatant, there would not much starter beer being carried over.

While at it, I hope the OP will ranch some of that starter slurry, for a next starter.

50F is a bit chilly. I put a nightlight (4 watt) bulb next to mine and make a little housing to hold in warmth.

Yup, 50°F is too cold for making ale yeast starters, probably borderline for Lager yeast.

 

[IslandLizard]

This is in a house I keep at 50F when it is unoccupied.

It's now moved to a small room with a space heater set to 65F

Just make sure that space heater is safe to operate while away.

Why not make the starter in the house/space you live in?
Or use a spare a fridge or freezer (or any other insulated "box") with a (very) small space heater or light bulb, as your starter incubator?
I've used an unfortunate "hot" fridge for that...

 

[whoaru99]

Just make sure that space heater is safe to operate while away.

Why not make the starter in the house/space you live in?
Or use a spare a fridge or freezer (or any other insulated "box") with a (very) small space heater or light bulb, as your starter incubator?
I've used an unfortunate "hot" fridge for that...

I think the space heater is OK. Granted there are very few 100% guarantees, but it's new enough it has thermal cutout, tip over switch (that I confirm works) etc. I also have security cameras, including a couple wireless ones, that I have set up to watch from afar (although not really too far between places, 3/4 mile, a bit less actually).

Far as why here, I still have to boil outside with LP and at this place I can literally boil on the back steps and easily bring the kettle inside just a few steps to the mud/laundry room for inside water connection for chilling. It's winter here, all the outdoor spigots are shut off and hoses drained and put away. Despite how it may appear, it's just more convenient at this place in the big picture.

 

[whoaru99]

GF/SO got off work early and I'm still on Holiday shutdown so decided to take a spin around the lake about 25mi North of home.

Stopped for late lunch, basket of chicken tenderloins with "Gold Rush" sauce and 1/2 order of Tater Tots.

And, check in on the starter whilst at it.

 

[balrog]

GF/SO got off work early and I'm still on Holiday shutdown so decided to take a spin around the lake about 25mi North of home.

Stopped for late lunch, basket of chicken tenderloins with "Gold Rush" sauce and 1/2 order of Tater Tots.

View attachment 837698

And, check in on the starter whilst at it.

View attachment 837700

Wow. A photo from 23 years ago.

 

[whoaru99]

Wow. A photo from 23 years ago.

LOL.

Yeah, when unplug the wireless cam to move it, it takes a while to refresh the actual date and time.

The security camera software I run shows the correct date and timestamp if I had snipped the picture from a clip rather than live stream. And, of course, it's not the kitchen either.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Whatever date the was in that one picture, the chicken basket one made me hungry!

 

[whoaru99]

Whatever date the was in that one picture, the chicken basket one made me hungry!

Yeah, them's good eats. Not what I'd really call breaded, but maybe lightly dusted so there is just a subtle hint of a crisp. And the sauce... a little sweet, a little smokey, some zing. Yum!

 

[whoaru99]

On the starter, how long do y'all let them go?

The krausen has dropped but it appears to still be generating fair bit of fizz, so to speak.

Pitch was Thursday 6pm give or take, with that cool start.

 

[IslandLizard]

On the starter, how long do y'all let them go?

It depends on how fresh/viable that pack of yeast was.
What yeast (strain) is that? how fresh? You pitched 1 pack?

I usually wait for the color change, turning the starter beer significantly lighter due to a large amount of yeast being suspended in the (starter) beer. Could be 2-3 days, sometimes it takes up to a week.
I don't see a color change in yours, it still looks quite transparent, meaning there's not much yeast in suspension (yet).
Is there a yeast cake forming on the bottom, to use as a gauge of growth?

Are you using a yeast calculator, such as this one?
https://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
On a side note, I never make 4 liter starters in the first step from a single pack; 1.6-1.8 liter is more common here.
If the yeast is older, I may start with only 0.8-1.0 liter first. Then step up to 2 to 4 liters.

 

[whoaru99]

OYL-111 lager yeast.

Packaged 2 Dec 2023. What are those Omega pouches, 150 billion fresh?

It's definitely looking more cloudy and somewhat milky this morning.

On a stir plate will I see a cake as long as it's still spinning?

 

[balrog]

I spin mine slowly and usually see no bottom build up unless I stop the stirrer. The krausen rises and falls and by then for me I have the nice milky look. I set it in fridge or somewhere cool not freezing, overnight, and have the typical bottom white layer by morning.

 

[whoaru99]

To me it looks like it's definitely on the down slope if not done. No more fizz/foam of any sort showing now.

I'm going to pull it off the stirrer and put in fridge this morning. Should have had that done for this post but the magnet I have isn't strong enough to get the stir bar out. I'll have to head up to the hardware store in a bit to check for something stronger.

Or, I guess even if it went into the fermenter no big deal I presume. Not planning on making another starter any time soon, and even if so I have a couple other stir bars.

 

[balrog]

pull apart an old hard drive

the magnets in those things are awesome

 

[whoaru99]

pull apart an old hard drive

the magnets in those things are awesome

That's what I used to make my small stir plate. Still works great for a 2L flask.

But, not long ago, I drilled through a bunch of old HDDs and tossed'em in the trash.

I did get a magnet though and retrieved the bar. Set me back a princely $9. Cost of living in a smallish town and wanting it now.

 

[balrog]

Always hood to have extras…

 

[Yesfan]

To me it looks like it's definitely on the down slope if not done. No more fizz/foam of any sort showing now.

I'm going to pull it off the stirrer and put in fridge this morning. Should have had that done for this post but the magnet I have isn't strong enough to get the stir bar out. I'll have to head up to the hardware store in a bit to check for something stronger.

Or, I guess even if it went into the fermenter no big deal I presume. Not planning on making another starter any time soon, and even if so I have a couple other stir bars.

I was going to ask you about that stir plate. Granted, you have 4.5L of starter on it. How does it do with 2-3L?

 

[whoaru99]

I was going to ask you about that stir plate. Granted, you have 4.5L of starter on it. How does it do with 2-3L?

Never tried it with a smaller starter. I have a smaller stir plate I used in the past with a 2L flask.

I have an assortment of four stir bar lengths. In this case used the 3rd largest, which is about 2-1/4 inch long. It worked well at a setting of 4 of 10 with the 4L starter.

With a smaller starter on that Corning plate I'd go down a step or two in the stir bar size and give that a shot. I think it would be OK.