Help interpreting and adapting this ...Budweiser... clone recipe to BIAB

[fun4stuff]

So my dads a bud guy. Loves bud. I have gotten him into some craft brews, but bud is still his favorite. For Father’s Day last year i helped him turn his old fridge into a kegerator and I’ve been helping him keep his keg full.
————-

here’s the recipe i found:


Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.048
Final Gravity: 1.010
IBU (Tinseth): 15
Color: 6.7 EBC


Mash
Infusion — 143.6 F — 60 min
Mash out — 170 F — 15 min


Malts (5.95 kg)
6 lbs 3 oz (47.1%) — BestMalz Pilsen Malt — Grain — 3.5 EBC

3 lbs 15.5 oz (30.3%) — Briess Rice, Flaked — Grain — 2 EBC

2 lbs 3 oz (16.8%) — BestMalz Pale Ale — Grain — 6 EBC

12.4 oz of (5.9%) — Briess Carapils — Grain — 3 EBC


Hops (11 g)
11 g (15 IBU) — Nugget 13% — Boil — 60 min

Mashing Instructions: let grain rest at 120 before working with rice, rice should be milled to resemble malt-o-meal. Bring 5 gal. to boil, add rice, stir until thick, turn off heat, lower temp of rice with cold water to 150 and add 2# milled two-row, let set 20 minuets, turn heat back on and bring rice to boil, stiring constantly, do not let rice scorch, this is very important and also very labor intensive, once rice has boiled for 5 minuets turn heat off and add rice to main mash, use gloves, once rice has been stired in to main mash temp should be very close to 148, mash one hour.



———-

so what is this they want me to do with the rice? I’ve never used it in a beer before. What do they want me to do with the rice during the mash?

 

[bracconiere]

i might have a concern about tannins from the boiling of the malt with the rice.....might want to skip that part and just boil the rice....

and honestly when i was making 100% rice beer, as far as scorching....i just stuck my pot in the oven on low over night....

 

[Robert65]

What is being discussed is a cereal mash, try researching that. It is necessary to include about 10% of the total malt from the recipe when boiling the raw cereal adjunct (corn or rice grits.) In this application, the malt's alpha amylase acts as an enzyme of liquefaction, keeping the cereal adjunct from becoming a gummy mass that will be impossible to incorporate into the main mash. This is how all adjunct beers are made, @bracconiere; if you've never detected tannins in the 30 pack from the gas station, you clearly needn't worry. Boiling temperatures will not extract tannins and silicates from the grain husks, that is a function of pH. Same principle as in sparging, or decoction mashing.

A cereal mash can be bypassed by simply using a flaked (pre gelatinized) form of the adjunct directly in the main mash, with no effect on the qualities of the final beer.

 

[fun4stuff]

What is being discussed is a cereal mash, try researching that. It is necessary to include about 10% of the total malt from the recipe when boiling the raw cereal adjunct (corn or rice grits.) In this application, the malt's alpha amylase acts as an enzyme of liquefaction, keeping the cereal adjunct from becoming a gummy mass that will be impossible to incorporate into the main mash. This is how all adjunct beers are made, @bracconiere; if you've never detected tannins in the 30 pack from the gas station, you clearly needn't worry. Boiling temperatures will not extract tannins and silicates from the grain husks, that is a function of pH. Same principle as in sparging, or decoction mashing.

A cereal mash can be bypassed by simply using a flaked (pre gelatinized) form of the adjunct directly in the main mash, with no effect on the qualities of the final beer.

Cereal mash! I knew there was something i was missing.

So the recipe ingredients list “flaked rice”. So i can just use that and mash at 143.6 and be good? 143 seems awfully low!

 

[bracconiere]

if you've never detected tannins in the 30 pack from the gas station

honestly i've been brewing my own before i was old enough to buy 30 packs.....but when i dropped my sparge temp to 160f or so instead of boiling hot, i got better tasting beer....that was on the advice of the brewpub owner when i told him i was getting yeasty flavors....


and as far as liquification, i could liquifie a 20 lb bag of white rice with a few tbls's worth of alpha amylase in a pot.....once it was gel'd....(and i apolagize for my bad spelling, lol)

 

[Robert65]

If you use a North American lager/brewers malt, that temperature will probably be above gelatinization temperature, believe it or not. So you will be favoring beta amylase and getting most of your conversion from it. What isn't clear is that there is probably supposed to be a slow(ish) ramp to the 170°F mash off, say 2°F/minute tops, so that along the way you will get a lot of alpha amylase activity, which will be at its peak at 170°F. So you'll get good fermentability and also some body and foam forming glycoproteins. That's how it works for the big guys. How it translates in practice to your system, well I guess we'll find out!

If the rice is flaked, no need for cereal mash. It looks like whoever made that recipe adapted the ingredients and did some cut and paste from a source on the commercial process. You can probably do some adaptation of your own.

The recommended German malt won't work with that kind of mash program, and the hops are inappropriate too. Budweiser would use some combination of European noble hops and American varieties like Willamette and Saaz.

Maybe more research is in order.

 

[RM-MN]

if you have your own mill, Minute Rice works well. That will substitute for the 120 minutes of messing with the grain and boiling the rice. Mill the rice and the Pilsen malt very fine, leave out the pale ale malt if you want and skip the carapils. The pale ale malt will give the beer a little darker color if that is what you want. You could include a bit of corn meal too if you want, it gives the beer a different flavor. Do a single infusion mash of 148 to 150 for 30 minutes (only if the grain is milled very fine, otherwise let it go for the full 60 minutes). The hops are not the featured flavor and are intended only for bittering. Nugget, magnum, Saaz, or any noble hop you have available will work, use the appropriate amount to get the 15 IBU's.

 

[soccerdad]

See above from RM MN. Cereal mash not necessary with Minute Rice.
Are you making an ale or a lager?

A simple cream ale recipe for a beer like this would be 8 pounds 2 row (or pilsner) and 2 pounds minute rice.

As above, just bitter to 15.

If ale, I would use 05, and if lager 34/70.

Just my opinion.

 

[Robert65]

If you are really trying to clone Budweiser, it is 70% malt (they breed, grow, and malt their own varieties, but standard US 2 row will do) and 30% rice, with noble type hops to about 15 in 3 additions (yes, the flavor and aroma is subtle but important,) and their yeast is available as WY 2007. The delicate apple ester it produces is a distinctive feature of Budweiser.

But it is really all about process with these types of beers. If you are able to employ rigorous low oxygen brewing methods and spund (either in a unitank or in keg) to naturally carbonate the beer, you may be able to make a credible product. If using normal homebrew practices, it will not resemble the commercial product very closely.

If the real goal is to have something on hand that appeals to friends who don't go for the intensely crafty stuff, then making one of the ubiquitous cream ale recipes may be the ticket.

 

[fun4stuff]

If you are really trying to clone Budweiser, it is 70% malt (they breed, grow, and malt their own varieties, but standard US 2 row will do) and 30% rice, with noble type hops to about 15 in 3 additions (yes, the flavor and aroma is subtle but important,) and their yeast is available as WY 2007. The delicate apple ester it produces is a distinctive feature of Budweiser.

But it is really all about process with these types of beers. If you are able to employ rigorous low oxygen brewing methods and spund (either in a unitank or in keg) to naturally carbonate the beer, you may be able to make a credible product. If using normal homebrew practices, it will not resemble the commercial product very closely.

If the real goal is to have something on hand that appeals to friends who don't go for the intensely crafty stuff, then making one of the ubiquitous cream ale recipes may be the ticket.

Yeah, my dad really likes Budweiser (not bud light) and it’s for his kegerator.

I have read a lot about low oxygen brewing... fermenting my lodo brew as we speak. At least as close as i can with BIAB. I tried to slowly lower my bag in and got a ton of dough balls which resulted in a lot of stirring and I’m sure that introduced more air. I did have 15 lbs of grain though (in 6.5 gallons (full volume, no sparge).

I do like having a cream ale on tap. Almost all non craft brew drinkers like them. I usually have one of these and /or wheat beer on tap for that reason.

it’s going to be weird to me using minute rice. That will be a first (at least as far as homebrew goes).

thanks for the tips!

 

[RM-MN]

it’s going to be weird to me using minute rice. That will be a first (at least as far as homebrew goes).

Broaden your horizons. Brew a beer that has corn meal in it. You can make one with Minute rice and corn meal too.