Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[aaronm13]

Ok so I'm almost there with my planing. Hopefully doing the bobsbrew recipe next weekend as below

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 4-5 days
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 4-5 days
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 4-5 days
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 4-5 days
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 4-5 days

I can't get hopshots so have to bitter with pellets. From what I read 14ml of hopshots is equal to 140IBUS,10IBU per ml. Is this correct? Should I am to get 140 IBU from my hop addition? Going to bitter with 14%AA of Columbus. This seems like a lot of hops to me but who am I to argue, haha. Just don't want to over do the hops and have it undrinkable.

 

[couchsending]

Per Kimmich, there is no wheat in any of their beers.

 

[aaronm13]

Per Kimmich, there is no wheat in any of their beers.

That's true but just going by the recipe posted on here. I've no other recipe to base this brew off so going with this one. Do you have an updated recipe? If you do could you please post it.

 

[couchsending]

Just ditch the wheat.. everything else looks about right. Not sure they use Sugar but you still might need it.

 

[aaronm13]

Just ditch the wheat.. everything else looks about right. Not sure they use Sugar but you still might need it.

Thanks. Any idea about my hopshot substitute question?

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks. Any idea about my hopshot substitute question?

imho ditching hopshot should be fine. i’d aim for similar ibus from pellets or a few less. hopshots are only to reduce hop matter. bitter to your taste if u ask me. heady seems pretty bitter. i’d go for calculated tinseth of like 40-50 ibus at 60 min with pellets and then do the character hops

 

[cheesebach]

imho ditching hopshot should be fine. i’d aim for similar ibus from pellets or a few less. hopshots are only to reduce hop matter. bitter to your taste if u ask me. heady seems pretty bitter. i’d go for calculated tinseth of like 40-50 ibus at 60 min with pellets and then do the character hops

Agreed - 120 IBU from pellets is waaaaaaaaay too much. Don’t make the same mistake I did when I brewed this beer with Columbus pellets for bittering.

 

[aaronm13]

Agreed - 120 IBU from pellets is waaaaaaaaay too much. Don’t make the same mistake I did when I brewed this beer with Columbus pellets for bittering.

imho ditching hopshot should be fine. i’d aim for similar ibus from pellets or a few less. hopshots are only to reduce hop matter. bitter to your taste if u ask me. heady seems pretty bitter. i’d go for calculated tinseth of like 40-50 ibus at 60 min with pellets and then do the character hops

Thanks guys for that. I was thinking a charge of 120IBU with pellets would be pretty much undrinkable. So with my adjusted boil addition and whirlpool hops I'm at 99IBU going by Beersmith, does that sound ok?

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks guys for that. I was thinking a charge of 120IBU with pellets would be pretty much undrinkable. So with my adjusted boil addition and whirlpool hops I'm at 99IBU going by Beersmith, does that sound ok?

what is your 60 min addn?

 

[aaronm13]

what is your 60 min addn?

Adding 51g/1.79oz of Columbus at 60 minutes for a IBU of around 60. I use a hop spider so will be a slight percentage of a loss through that.

 

[stickyfinger]

seems fine to me

 

[aaronm13]

seems fine to me

Thanks for all your help. I'm sure it won't be Heady but should be a fine beer.

 

[GnenieGone]

Thanks. Any idea about my hopshot substitute question?

I did a pliny clone that used 3oz of Columbus for bittering (192IBU) came out great. Either way you chose, I recommend First Wort if your going to pellet. Add hops in a strainer when you dump to kettel. This keeps the green material out. Just my 2cents.

 

[aaronm13]

I did a pliny clone that used 3oz of Columbus for bittering (192IBU) came out great. Either way you chose, I recommend First Wort if your going to pellet. Add hops in a strainer when you dump to kettel. This keeps the green material out. Just my 2cents.

Did a Pliny clone myself a few months ago and was around the 190+ IBU too and tasted great and surprisingly not overly bitter. Use a hop spider too with my grainfather, that pump wouldn't handle loose hops. It struggles as is.

 

[GnenieGone]

Did a Pliny clone myself a few months ago and was around the 190+ IBU too and tasted great and surprisingly not overly bitter. Use a hop spider too with my grainfather, that pump wouldn't handle loose hops. It struggles as is.

I don't think one will notice the difference between 100, 120, or 190 IBUs with this beer. I think Resin is more bitter then any Pliny clone I've done.

 

[Trillium]

Here is the recipe I have been using. I think I nailed it!

Fermentables:

15 lbs Pearl base malt (86%)
0.6 lb Cara malt (Crystal 10) (4%)
1.75 lb Corn sugar (10%)

Water profile
CA: 50 ppm
So4: 300
RA: -40

Mash 60 min ~146 degrees

Boil:

Warrior 1.5 oz 60 min
Simcoe 1 oz 30 min
Columbus 2 oz 15 min
Simcoe 2 oz 10 min
Amarillo 1 oz 5 min

Whirlpool:

Simcoe 2 oz
Amarillo 1 oz

Dry Hop:

Simcoe 3 oz

 

[couchsending]

It’s pretty much impossible to get more than 88-90 actual IBUs into a final beer. You can put 200 theoretical and it still ends up at around 90.

 

[aaronm13]

One last thing, is a 90 minute boil necessary or would a 60 minute be sufficient? No wheat or Pilsner so don't see how a longer boil would improve things.

 

[crhall41]

Today was brew day; here's what we did, how we did it, and where it landed us.

Instead of using the original recipe on the first page of the thread, we went with Bobbrews recipe and then followed one of his suggestions in post number 2956. Our goal was a 5g recipe and we achieved just over that with the following numbers using a no-sparge, BIAB process:

9g of Strike (total water volume)
11 lb. 11.7 oz.: Pearl (86.9%)
9.9 oz.: White Wheat Malt (4.6%)
8.5 oz.: Caramalt (3.9%)
17 mL: HopShot @ 75min
9.9 oz.: Turbinado Sugar @ Flame-out (4.6%)
2.5 oz.: Simcoe @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
1 oz.: Centennial @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
0.75 oz.: Columbus @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
0.75 oz.: Comet @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
1.5 packs: GigaYeast Vermont Ale IPA
1.50 oz.: Simcoe @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz.: Centennial @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz.: Columbus @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz.: Comet @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.50 oz.: Apollo @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

From BYO article <https://byo.com/article/advanced-dry-hopping-techniques/> "...If you’ve had Heady Topper before, you may be surprised to learn that John Kimmich dry hops with under 4 oz. (113 g) per 5 gallons (19 L)...."

as well, "...One that was surprising was John Kimmich who adds all his dry hops in one big charge for his Imperial IPA..."

Has anyone tried brewing HT with a smaller dry hop load with only a single drop? If so how did it turn out?

 

[couchsending]

If I’m not mistaken they recirculate through a Grundy full of bagged hops when they dry hop so they get maximum exposure from smaller hop charges.

Unless you can do the same you’d probably need more hops.

There are no dry hops added during fermentation of any Alchemist beers from what I can gather.

 

[sweetcell]

If I’m not mistaken they recirculate through a Grundy full of bagged hops when they dry hop so they get maximum exposure from smaller hop charges.

Unless you can do the same you’d probably need more hops.

this.

yet another example of how we shouldn't blindly copy what pro brewers do on large commercial systems.

 

[crhall41]

If I’m not mistaken they recirculate through a Grundy full of bagged hops when they dry hop so they get maximum exposure from smaller hop charges.

Unless you can do the same you’d probably need more hops.

There are no dry hops added during fermentation of any Alchemist beers from what I can gather.

From the most recent BYO magazine <https://byo.com/article/new-england-ipa-a-scientific-study/>.

"Dry-hopping in multiple stages and with fewer hops may also help to get more overall extraction from dry hops, as one paper by Ray Marriot shows that linalool extraction dropped 20% when dry-hopping in larger amounts compared to smaller.16 For homebrewers, this would mean a drop of about 20% extraction when dry-hopping around 5 gallons (19 L) of beer at a rate of 400 grams vs. 50 grams (14 vs. 1.8 oz.) at once. Try experimenting with low dry-hop dosages (45–90 grams/1.6–3.2 oz. at a time for homebrewers), and dosing two to three different times throughout the fermentation to increase extraction rates."

This seems to go against what Kimmich states he is doing for his Imperial IPA (Heady Topper?), i.e., single charge for dry hopping. Hard to know what to do sometimes. Relax and enjoy a homebrew I guess.

 

[stickyfinger]

whatever you do, avoid oxygen. also, whatever Alchemist is doing is working, well.

From the most recent BYO magazine <https://byo.com/article/new-england-ipa-a-scientific-study/>.

"Dry-hopping in multiple stages and with fewer hops may also help to get more overall extraction from dry hops, as one paper by Ray Marriot shows that linalool extraction dropped 20% when dry-hopping in larger amounts compared to smaller.16 For homebrewers, this would mean a drop of about 20% extraction when dry-hopping around 5 gallons (19 L) of beer at a rate of 400 grams vs. 50 grams (14 vs. 1.8 oz.) at once. Try experimenting with low dry-hop dosages (45–90 grams/1.6–3.2 oz. at a time for homebrewers), and dosing two to three different times throughout the fermentation to increase extraction rates."

This seems to go against what Kimmich states he is doing for his Imperial IPA (Heady Topper?), i.e., single charge for dry hopping. Hard to know what to do sometimes. Relax and enjoy a homebrew I guess.

 

[the_owl]

Hi there, I read lots o f this thread and watched videos. I brewed this beer March 31st and bottled in bombers last week:
I batch sparged, and fermented at 66 ish for 4 days then brought it up to 71. I sampled before bottling and it was fantastic! Ive only had Heady once since I live in the desert southwest, but it was very close to what I remember.
Heres the list:
14lb Pearl Malt
1lb White Wheat
1lb Caramalt
hop jizz at boil 10ml (90)
1.00 oz*** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min &ndash; 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs

Dry hopped half recipe on day 13
Dry hopped 2nd half on Day 17.
2nd dry hopped sub'd .5 oz columbus for .25 cryo mosaic
Splash boiling water into mash tun from stove, just before mashing.


Sparge water with hose and nipple 170 degrees
Slowly drain while filling Boil pot.
7.8 Boil Size.
Bring to boil, add hopshot.
90 minute boil (rolling)

Mash 6 gallons
add 15 grams gypsum to mash.
add 10 grams gypsum to sparge /hot liquor.

half whirlpool hops at 200. second half at 180.
10 oz Turbinado Sugar at flame out.

ferment date: 3-31-2019
Batch size 5.5 gal
Original Gravity 1.070
Final Gravity 1.006 confirmed.
Bottled April 23rd. with CBC yeast half pack and 5oz priming sugar. 28 Bottles

 

[ihavenonickname]

recipes for this are all over the place, can anybody care to follow up on their results?

 

[stickyfinger]

recipes for this are all over the place, can anybody care to follow up on their results?

my big hangup is the malt. i bought a sack of TF Pearl malt and every beer tasted sort of medicinal. maybe i just got a bad lot.

 

[jpakstis]

recipes for this are all over the place, can anybody care to follow up on their results?

I've done the Farmhouse Brewing Supply kit (based off of the recipe on the 1st page) three times. The first one I felt like was about 85% of the way there. The second one did not go so well, maybe because of an issue I've been having. I'm currently fermenting the third one and can't wait to try it. I've been paying more attention to fermentation temperature and being patient so I'm hoping for some good stuff with this one! Also for the first two I used harvested Conan, but this one I'm using the Omega DIPA yeast (I think my issue for the 2nd batch might have had something to do with whether my harvested Conan is still any good).

Even 85% of Heady Topper is still good for me.

 

[stickyfinger]

I used Omega DIPA for awhile, but it was a very scary yeast for me. More than once it just stuck at high gravity and left a sweet beer. I hope it goes well for you! I'd go with the Gigayeast version to be safe.

I've done the Farmhouse Brewing Supply kit (based off of the recipe on the 1st page) three times. The first one I felt like was about 85% of the way there. The second one did not go so well, maybe because of an issue I've been having. I'm currently fermenting the third one and can't wait to try it. I've been paying more attention to fermentation temperature and being patient so I'm hoping for some good stuff with this one! Also for the first two I used harvested Conan, but this one I'm using the Omega DIPA yeast (I think my issue for the 2nd batch might have had something to do with whether my harvested Conan is still any good).

Even 85% of Heady Topper is still good for me.

 

[jpakstis]

I used Omega DIPA for awhile, but it was a very scary yeast for me. More than once it just stuck at high gravity and left a sweet beer. I hope it goes well for you! I'd go with the Gigayeast version to be safe.

Yeah, on my first HT attempt, it never even began fermenting so I had to pitch some harvested Conan a couple of days in. This time its been great, fermentation-wise. Its gone from about 1.070ish to 1.017 in the past 4 days.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Here is the recipe I have been using. I think I nailed it!

Fermentables:

15 lbs Pearl base malt (86%)
0.6 lb Cara malt (Crystal 10) (4%)
1.75 lb Corn sugar (10%)

Water profile
CA: 50 ppm
So4: 300
RA: -40

Mash 60 min ~146 degrees

Boil:

Warrior 1.5 oz 60 min
Simcoe 1 oz 30 min
Columbus 2 oz 15 min
Simcoe 2 oz 10 min
Amarillo 1 oz 5 min

Whirlpool:

Simcoe 2 oz
Amarillo 1 oz

Dry Hop:

Simcoe 3 oz

Sounds like a great beer - your hops, water and mash are pretty different from some others on here. Could you elaborate on how/why you landed on these details? I’m gonna make something like this soon... can’t decide if I should make it like yours or the first pages.

 

[flintoid]

Per Kimmich, there is no wheat in any of their beers.

edit- I'm adding couchsending's quote and reiterating some information that came from a conversation I had with Kimmich

useful information for a "clone" is that HT is celiac safe- Kimmich's wife has celiac's disease, and he brews heady topper, holy cow, crusher, and focal banger to be celiac safe. These are the only beers that he tests as they are his wife's favorites. He does this by using barley base malts (english pearl which is what you guys are correctly using... Conan breaks down the limited gluten in this malt very well) and by leaving wheat out of all of these.

So the "clones" with flaked wheat are not going to clone it well. You can also tell by pouring a HT into a glass- the haze that they produce in their beers are from hops. I'm sure wheat adds great aspects to the a clone attempt, but just don't expect it to drink like Heady if you're adding a bunch of wheat.

 

[Richard Van Eck]

Sounds like a great beer - your hops, water and mash are pretty different from some others on here. Could you elaborate on how/why you landed on these details? I’m gonna make something like this soon... can’t decide if I should make it like yours or the first pages.

Sounds great! I'd like to try a version of this using LME--Below is my conversion of that for any comment. I have some questions, as well:

Can I assume 75% Mash Efficiency with your recipe?
Am I correct in assuming the Cara malt would be my specialty grain (e.g., not converted to LME)?
When do you add the corn sugar? In Belgian recipes, I've seen this added at the end, which is why I ask.
What yeast do you recommend?

LME Recipe:
12 pounds Maris Otter Light LME (rounding up from the 11 my conversion actually calls for)
.6 pounds Briess Caramel 10L Malt (steep for 15 minutes at 150-175 pre-brew)
1.75 lb Corn Sugar (added near end of boil?)
Warrior 1.5 oz at start
Simcoe 1 oz at 30 min
Columbus 2 oz at 45 min
Simcoe 2 oz at 50 min
Amarillo 1 oz at 55 min

Simcoe 2 oz and Amarillo 1 oz at flame out

Cool to 70

7-10 days primary fermentation
14-21 days secondary fermentation

Simcoe 3oz 10 days prior to kegging

 

[stickyfinger]

I'm assuming all of you HT lovers out there also love Alena. Does anyone know what hops are in it, out of curiosity? Kimmich talks about dank hops and he mentioned Crusher in his video on it as being similar. Crusher seems more dank to me.

 

[couchsending]

Sounds like Alena always changes when it was brewed at the pub and wouldn’t surprise me if it still changes. He says there are quite a few hops in it. I think he tends to select hops that have more “dank” to them, similar to Lagunitas. I believe that’s generally later harvest. So unless you’re literally using their hops I think you’d have a hard time replicating it.

I’d just use some of the danker
varieties:

Apollo
Columbus
07270
Summit

 

[stickyfinger]

I see. The 07270 looks interesting. I might try a dank IPA for fun soon!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/07/07/the-hop-chronicles-experimental-07270/

Sounds like Alena always changes when it was brewed at the pub and wouldn’t surprise me if it still changes. He says there are quite a few hops in it. I think he tends to select hops that have more “dank” to them, similar to Lagunitas. I believe that’s generally later harvest. So unless you’re literally using their hops I think you’d have a hard time replicating it.

I’d just use some of the danker
varieties:

Apollo
Columbus
07270
Summit

 

[OzarkPA]

Funny story... I brewed this again trying a BIAB method. When I got my OG, I didn't notice that I broke (another) tip off my hygrometer, and I figured my efficency was way down because it was my first BIAB and I ground the grains a long time ago... too many kids and too busy.. So, I kept dumping some spare DME and my gravity hardly changed. So dumped in honey (a la hopslam) and still didn't change. Finally called it a night and fermented and ukeged it a month later. Had a couple of pints with my buddy and it was pretty tasty - but sweeter than the real recipe (probably because of the honey etc). However... I was sick as a dog for a couple of days. I calculated my abv as something like 2.9%, but hung over for two days. Moral of the story? Don't trust a broken hygrometer.

On that note - are you dry hopping into a bag on this one, or just dumping into the fermenter?

 

[day_trippr]

Moral of the story? Don't trust a broken hygrometer.

I wouldn't trust an unbroken hygrometer in this case, either

 

[sweetcell]

i think someone needs to look up the definition of a hygrometer...

 

[OzarkPA]

Hey man... Hygrometer.. Hydrometer.. Cut me some slack! I'll blame my poor liver...

 

[sicktght311]

Theres sooooo many recipes here, but not really a lot of results. Anyone want to share their recipe, result, and reaction in one single post so anyone joining this thread doesnt have to go through all 100 pages?