Have little experience and not sure if i over did it

[jjw5015]

I recommend buying kits until you understand the whole process better. At least you won't have to worry about recipe formulation.

 

[IslandLizard]

That’s understandable. For big OG beers in the future consider the fact that yeast are often the limiting factor in getting a beer to finish. Theres a lot of work for them to do and their environment becomes more toxic as alcohol increases. Here are a few things to aid them along the way:

1. Select a yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance
2. Pitch a large enough amount (multiple packets or grown through a starter)
3. Build a vitality starter (satisfies item 2)
4. Oxygenate your wort

It seems like a lot but with minimal reading you’ll be where you need to be. More importantly, you’ll get a big beer that finishes with slight less hot boozy aroma and flavor. And if all else fails and you like the way this one turns out, replicated the process to duplicate the results!

Cheers

That! ^

Let me add this one:
5. Control your fermentation temps

Yeast binging, especially on super sweet wort, can create lots of off flavors and higher (fusel) alcohols that don't taste good.
Brewing is a learning process, so read up on various ways of doing things, apply and improve with each batch.

 

[IslandLizard]

I recommend buying kits until you understand the whole process better. At least you won't have to worry about recipe formulation.

I disagree, there's no need to stick with kits, many are mediocre, and their instructions are generally outdated, or sheer wrong.

Using loose bought ingredients is fine.
But key is to use good and proven recipes. There are tons of them in our Recipe Database and elsewhere. You may tweak them as you see fit, e.g., make them stronger, use different yeasts, different malts, etc. But don't deviate too far until you understand what each ingredient does.

 

[IslandLizard]

So when should i take an fg reading at my desired fermentation time and then if it seems way to high do you think it would be okay to use a little dry champagne yeast to kick things back into gear?
Or once its done its done?

There's no use in taking readings until the fermentation is done. And then, especially with bigger (stronger) beers there's not much you can do to change it.

==> Which yeast did you use and how much?
I hope it's a Belgian yeast and one that can ferment strong beers.

Pitching Champagne yeast won't do anything, it can't ferment the more complex sugars (e.g., maltotriose), that are typically left over and keep your beer (too) sweet.

Now you could pitch an active starter before alcohol levels build up too high and the current yeast craps out prematurely.

 

[jjw5015]

I disagree, there's no need to stick with kits, many are mediocre, and their instructions are generally outdated, or sheer wrong.

Using loose bought ingredients is fine.
But key is to use good and proven recipes. There are tons of them in our Recipe Database and elsewhere. You may tweak them as you see fit, e.g., make them stronger, use different yeasts, different malts, etc. But don't deviate too far until you understand what each ingredient does.

That's sort of what I was getting at. That recipe in the first post is a mess.

 

[Red dog beer]

There's no use in taking readings until the fermentation is done. And then, especially with bigger (stronger) beers there's not much you can do to change it.

==> Which yeast did you use and how much?
I hope it's a Belgian yeast and one that can ferment strong beers.

Pitching Champagne yeast won't do anything, it can't ferment the more complex sugars (e.g., maltotriose), that are typically left over and keep your beer (too) sweet.

Now you could pitch an active starter before alcohol levels build up too high and the current yeast craps out prematurely.

Dry Belgian ale yeast from yeast bay.

 

[Red dog beer]

There's no use in taking readings until the fermentation is done. And then, especially with bigger (stronger) beers there's not much you can do to change it.

==> Which yeast did you use and how much?
I hope it's a Belgian yeast and one that can ferment strong beers.

Pitching Champagne yeast won't do anything, it can't ferment the more complex sugars (e.g., maltotriose), that are typically left over and keep your beer (too) sweet.

Now you could pitch an active starter before alcohol levels build up too high and the current yeast craps out prematurely.

I used dry Belgian ale yeast which is 85%-100% attenuation. I picked it specifically because of that and the fact it can handle alcohol at 16%. I used one vial of it. I would have to find the vial to give an ezact measurement but also I have fast pitch wort 4 pk can that i bought for my wife to use for her kit after i did this whole process, is that along the lines of what you mean?

 

[Red dog beer]

I recommend buying kits until you understand the whole process better. At least you won't have to worry about recipe formulation.

The kits procedures are what got me here in the first place. The ingredients i researched/ winged it but the way i did this was based off of the ipa recipe kit i already had, but yeah i do agree and had intended on gaining experience through kits and reading with the occasional experiments.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The kits procedures are what got me here in the first place. The ingredients i researched/ winged it but the way i did this was based off of the ipa recipe kit i already had, but yeah i do agree and had intended on gaining experience through kits and reading with the occasional experiments.

Kits get us started, discussion moves us forward.

Don't be afraid to ask the forum for its opinion on kit instructions - you may find that the specific kit instructions you are using are either 1) really good or 2) really easy to fix. Some kit instructions have a lot of "deep" knowledge built into them.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used dry Belgian ale yeast which is 85%-100% attenuation. I picked it specifically because of that and the fact it can handle alcohol at 16%. I used one vial of it. I would have to find the vial to give an ezact measurement but also I have fast pitch wort 4 pk can that i bought for my wife to use for her kit after i did this whole process, is that along the lines of what you mean?

This appears to be your yeast, I had to look it up:
The Yeast Bay - WLP4025 - DRY BELGIAN ALE
https://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/dry-belgian-ale

HOMEBREW VIAL PRODUCT INFORMATION
Cell Counts. Saccharomyces single strains and blends will contain ~80 billion cells per vial.

So, that's a really small pitch for such a big beer. A good size starter would certainly have been beneficial, keep that in mind for next time. Punch some numbers into this and you'll see:
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

To make 14% and higher beers typically takes a special process requiring some dexterity and know-how, more difficult to attain each additional point. This is not beginners territory.

But who knows, maybe all the coins flip in your favor.

Oh, don't rack to a "secondary" after xx days because some instructions tell you.

 

[jjw5015]

And don't add galaxy as a 60 minute bittering addition. You'll want that at flameout/dryhop to get the flavor and aroma.

 

[Soulshine2]

I recommend buying kits until you understand the whole process better. At least you won't have to worry about recipe formulation.

I agree. Buy pre-measured and instructed kits until you understand what it is youre doing.
"Winging it " the first time is most likely the start of a bad habit, wasting ingredients not to mention the time spent .
I would rather take the time to teach someone how to do something correctly their first time than try to change someones long time bad habit.

 

[kh54s10]

I agree. Buy pre-measured and instructed kits until you understand what it is youre doing.
"Winging it " the first time is most likely the start of a bad habit, wasting ingredients not to mention the time spent .
I would rather take the time to teach someone how to do something correctly their first time than try to change someones long time bad habit.

Kits are convenient, but certainly not necessary. What is necessary is a good recipe or a solid knowledge of how to create a recipe. I started with 2 Northern Brewer extract kits, the next 2, I used their recipes but supplied my own ingredients (what the kits would include). That saved me some $$. I then did 4 partial mash brews from proven recipes. After those 8, I went all grain. The first was a kit, after that a few from recipes adhering strictly to the recipe. Later I would add a grain, hop or something, small steps. Once I was comfortable with the small changes I would look at a few recipes for ideas and come up with my own. I did not stray too far outside the box. I have only dumped 2 beers out of 109 batches. Both of those were "outside the box - extremely!

So in all I have bought only 3 kits. But I brewed many recipes exactly the same as I would have if I bought the kit.

 

[Red dog beer]

This appears to be your yeast, I had to look it up:
The Yeast Bay - WLP4025 - DRY BELGIAN ALE
https://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/dry-belgian-ale

HOMEBREW VIAL PRODUCT INFORMATION
Cell Counts. Saccharomyces single strains and blends will contain ~80 billion cells per vial.

So, that's a really small pitch for such a big beer. A good size starter would certainly have been beneficial, keep that in mind for next time. Punch some numbers into this and you'll see:
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

To make 14% and higher beers typically takes a special process requiring some dexterity and know-how, more difficult to attain each additional point. This is not beginners territory.

But who knows, maybe all the coins flip in your favor.

Oh, don't rack to a "secondary" after xx days because some instructions tell you.

Yeah not doing secondary, primary 4 weeks then bottle and wait. i would be content with 10% beer but i didnt know about pitching multiple yeasts

 

[Red dog beer]

I agree. Buy pre-measured and instructed kits until you understand what it is youre doing.
"Winging it " the first time is most likely the start of a bad habit, wasting ingredients not to mention the time spent .
I would rather take the time to teach someone how to do something correctly their first time than try to change someones long time bad habit.

I have brewed 3 kits and did 2 beers of my own, that first one was fine and got good reviews but this one seems to have been quite the leap of faith. The big problem here was me utilizing a very basic kit on a very complex beer for my experience level. But there is always next beer...

 

[Red dog beer]

And don't add galaxy as a 60 minute bittering addition. You'll want that at flameout/dryhop to get the flavor and aroma.

Noted.

 

[Soulshine2]

I have brewed 3 kits and did 2 beers of my own, that first one was fine and got good reviews but this one seems to have been quite the leap of faith. The big problem here was me utilizing a very basic kit on a very complex beer for my experience level. But there is always next beer...

my apologies then . I wasnt aware you had brewed prior to the one posted.

 

[IslandLizard]

i didnt know about pitching multiple yeasts

Some breweries do, you could too, but that was not what I was referring to.

Once beer gets to 12-14% most yeast craps out, unless you "teach" them to keep going, adding nutrients and more sugar, syrup, or concentrated wort little by little over a few weeks time, until they call it a day. At that point you've taken your beer as far as it will go. Look up Sam Adams Utopia. Or one of those BrewDog monsters.

 

[Red dog beer]

Some breweries do, you could too, but that was not what I was referring to.

Once beer gets to 12-14% most yeast craps out, unless you "teach" them to keep going, adding nutrients and more sugar, syrup, or concentrated wort little by little over a few weeks time, until they call it a day. At that point you've taken your beer as far as it will go. Look up Sam Adams Utopia. Or one of those BrewDog monsters.

Could i add yeast starter to the primary right now to help aid them? Canned wort to be exact .

 

[IslandLizard]

Could i add yeast starter to the primary right now to help aid them? Canned wort to be exact .

You would have to make at least a 1 liter (or 1 quart) starter using a stir plate (in a 2 liter erlenmeyer flask) or use the shaken-not-stirred method (in a 1 gallon "wine" jug with well sealing screw lid). Pitch at high krausen, about 4-12 hours in, when it gets really foamy. Making 2 liters may be better and increase the chance of not stalling prematurely.

As I said before, pretty much all beer yeast is going to give up the ghost around 14%, and when pitched into a beer with already a high alcohol percentage they will not thrive either.

But an additional pitch may not be needed.

First things first...
Is fermentation still going?
Have you taken a gravity reading yet? Not saying you should, letting it be, sealed under an airlock is best.

Let's calculate/estimate your OG from the recipe ingredients and the resulting volume after top off.
LME yields around 1.036 (or 36 points) per pound per gallon (ppg). 12 pounds = 12 * 36 = 432 points. In 5 gallons that's 432 / 5 = 86 pts/gal or 1.086.

A pound of candi syrup adds 32 points and a pound of mashed Vienna 36 points. That's another (32 + 36) / 5 = 14 points to add. 86 + 14 = 100 pts/gal.
You're at an OG of 1.100 now. Is this around what you concluded?

1.100 is high but not crazy high, your high gravity, alcohol tolerant Belgian yeast should be able to chow that down. There is going to be a significant load of unfermentables in that beer, due to boiling concentrated wort for an hour. But you also have a Belgian yeast at hand, with the Diastaticus gene. You definitely want to make sure it has finished before bottling or you're gonna have bombs later. So give it a month at (ambient) room temps 70-74F to make sure.

Let's say your Belgian yeast attenuates this beer down to 1.020 (80%):

(FG – OG) x 131.25 = % ABV
0.080 * 131.25 = 10.5% ABV

Well within the yeast's range and below 14%, even at 90% attenuation (11.8%).

 

[Red dog beer]

You would have to make at least a 1 liter (or 1 quart) starter using a stir plate (in a 2 liter erlenmeyer flask) or use the shaken-not-stirred method (in a 1 gallon "wine" jug with well sealing screw lid). Pitch at high krausen, about 4-12 hours in, when it gets really foamy. Making 2 liters may be better and increase the chance of not stalling prematurely.

As I said before, pretty much all beer yeast is going to give up the ghost around 14%, and when pitched into a beer with already a high alcohol percentage they will not thrive either.

But an additional pitch may not be needed.

First things first...
Is fermentation still going?
Have you taken a gravity reading yet? Not saying you should, letting it be, sealed under an airlock is best.

Let's calculate/estimate your OG from the recipe ingredients and the resulting volume after top off.
LME yields around 1.036 (or 36 points) per pound per gallon (ppg). 12 pounds = 12 * 36 = 432 points. In 5 gallons that's 432 / 5 = 86 pts/gal or 1.086.

A pound of candi syrup adds 32 points and a pound of mashed Vienna 36 points. That's another (32 + 36) / 5 = 14 points to add. 86 + 14 = 100 pts/gal.
You're at an OG of 1.100 now. Is this around what you concluded?

1.100 is high but not crazy high, your high gravity, alcohol tolerant Belgian yeast should be able to chow that down. There is going to be a significant load of unfermentables in that beer, due to boiling concentrated wort for an hour. But you also have a Belgian yeast at hand, with the Diastaticus gene. You definitely want to make sure it has finished before bottling or you're gonna have bombs later. So give it a month at (ambient) room temps 70-74F to make sure.

Let's say your Belgian yeast attenuates this beer down to 1.020 (80%):

(FG – OG) x 131.25 = % ABV
0.080 * 131.25 = 10.5% ABV

Well within the yeast's range and below 14%, even at 90% attenuation (11.8%).

Fermentation is still going, judging by activity in the airlock and layer of krausen still. The plan is definitely to let it sit until at least 4 weeks or longer depending on the visual activity. The site i used initially said i would get 10.5% (Michigan brew supply) they have a recipe calculator. They started me at a lower og/fg but the same abv. I could not get a legit gravity reading because i did not add the top off. The fermentation is about 72° now but it was on the high side for the first couple of days but i am Able to maintain it better now.

 

[Red dog beer]

Hey everyone, this sunday will be week 6 in primary. I am wondering if when i bottle will i need to re-yeast for carbonation due to the probable stress the fermentation put on them and time in..