Has anyone use sulfuric acid for mash acidification?

[JerryD]

I am using Brun Water to calculate water adjustments and it seems that a good solution for a Wheat IPA All Grain recipe I am working on would be to use Sulfuric Acid for the mash acidification because it will add sulfates which my water greatly lacks for a somewhat hoppy bear.

My first question is whether anyone has used sulfuric acid to good effect? Secondly, where do you get it?

I can not seem to find a food grade sulfuric acid that comes in a small quantity, say 4 oz. bottle. I don't want a litter of the stuff. Any ideas???

Thanks,

JerryD

 

[mabrungard]

Good luck with that. Sulfuric acid is a strong and fuming acid that can be quite dangerous if not handled properly. The best way to handle it safely is to only use relatively dilute sulfuric acid so that the fume potential is reduced. There is an English product called CRS that includes equal parts of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids at a relatively dilute strength. I haven't seen it in the US, so I can't comment further on it.

Use only food-grade acid since its too easy for an acid to be contaminated with heavy metals.

 

[ArcLight]

What about food grade Phosphoric acid?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0039CR4UU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[avidhomebrewer]

Don't use sulfuric acid. I wouldn't use phosporic either. They are too strong of acids, even though the latter is diluted. Why not use acid malt? That is sprayed with lactic acid and can effectively reduce pH. How much do you need to drop the pH?

 

[Yooper]

Don't use sulfuric acid. I wouldn't use phosporic either. They are too strong of acids, even though the latter is diluted. Why not use acid malt? That is sprayed with lactic acid and can effectively reduce pH. How much do you need to drop the pH?

Phosphoric acid is actually a great choice. It comes in 10% and 88% strengths, and I'm going to buy the 88% when my 10% is gone, so I can add less.

 

[avidhomebrewer]

Phosphoric acid is actually a great choice. It comes in 10% and 88% strengths, and I'm going to buy the 88% when my 10% is gone, so I can add less.

Yeah, phosporic is a strong acid, but if you don't handle it properly, you will get burned (literally and figuratively). Both sulfuric and phosphoric are very strong acids and can cause some serious damage. I've handled both acids over the years in industrial strength (chemical reactions) and have seen bad things happen for those that don't handle them properly. I would suggest sticking with the weaker acids that will accomplish what you want but won't be difficult to handle.

 

[user 125772]

why wouldn't you just use citric?

 

[Yooper]

why wouldn't you just use citric?

Because of the flavor impact. In very small amounts, there may not be a flavor impact (same with lactic acid) but in larger amounts they would impact the flavor of the beer.

Phosphoric acid is safe (with some common sense) and doesn't cause calcium to drop out.

Here's my favorite "short and sweet" (relatively) information on mash pH and manipulation: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mash_pH_control Go down about 1/2 way for a little comparison chart of the acids commonly used for adjusted mash pH. At the very bottom is my "cheat sheet" that I put in my brewery so that I can adjust mash pH on the fly by looking at the chart and adding the correct amount of lactic or phosphoric acid.

 

[sjbeerman]

Actually, phosphoric acid is not really a strong acid. It has more in common with weak acids than it does with strong acids. Also, this is the acid used in starsan and it is commonly used in buffer systems. I believe a diluted solution would be safe to use but be careful about overshooting the pH. I would never let sulfuric acid, which IS a very strong acid, to come anywhere near my brew system.

 

[mabrungard]

why wouldn't you just use citric?

Citric and Lactic acids are suitable for use in brewing applications. Its just that those acids can impart their flavor signature when added at higher concentration. What that 'higher' concentration is, is dependent upon the taster. But, it is common that these acids will add more flavor than a more neutral acid like phosphoric per milliequivalent of acid power.

For those brewing a beer that could benefit from the citric flavor of citric acid (maybe a Wit or a Wheat?), then the use of that acid may be desirable. In a cleaner beer style like a Pilsner, it could be overwhelming. Choose wisely.

Even a 'weak' acid like lactic acid can be hazardous to sensitive things like eyes, noses, and mouth. So care is always required. I suggest that strong and fuming acids like hydrochloric or sulfuric are particularly hazardous since those fumes can enter lungs and really hurt people.

Be careful with any acid or base. They can seriously hurt you.

 

[JerryD]

Thanks to everyone for their very clear suggestions. As I mentioned I am working on a hoppy wheat beer, so I am going to try the citric acid on this run and see how it goes. Now I just have to find a food grade citric acid solution that gives me clear info on it's acid content. Maybe that is easy????

Thanks.

 

[sjbeerman]

I wouldn't use citric acid to adjust pH. It's a very weak acid and the amount you probably require could leave a very unpleasant tart taste in the final product.

 

[mabrungard]

I wouldn't use citric acid to adjust pH. It's a very weak acid and the amount you probably require could leave a very unpleasant tart taste in the final product.

Not really true. For every milliequivalent of protons delivered to the water, there is only a milliequivalent of the corresponding anion. The number of milliequivalents of protons (H+) needed to adjust pH will not change with respect to the acid.

Although citric acid is a multiprotic acid, it will only give up one proton easily. So its sort of monoprotic like Lactic acid is.

So with Citric acid, you would add the same number of protons as any other acid to affect pH. The real problem with it is that the anion (citrate) is very flavorful and it wouldn't take much to taste it.

 

[sjbeerman]

Except that you ignored the dissociation constant for weak acids. Just look at the equation for calculating pH for a strong vs weak acid. They are not the same. In any case, I guess you could try a small amount of citric acid. Personally, I would use phosphoric, but thats just me.

 

[foodgrade]

sorry to bump an old thread but isn't sulfuric acid poison? What are you guys using? Is it food grade (like my name)? LOL. Is this thread even for brewing beers? I'm new here so...

While I think I've seen the word "sulfuric" in dried fruit products and other edible products, not sure if it's sulfuric acid or another kind.

Where can such acid that is food grade be obtained?

 

[mabrungard]

YES! If you drink a good dose of high strength sulfuric acid, it is poison. However, if you use at the typical very dilute dose used in homebrewing and other water treatment, it is not poison. Learn more about acids here: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

The difference between medicine and poison is dose.

 

[foodgrade]

where can I buy food grade sulfuric acid? I've seen a few but sold by the tonnage. I guess these are wholesalers.

 

[Homercidal]

Frankly, I would pass on the Sulfuric acid and use Phosphoric acid instead. I have used hydrochloric acid in the past and I love the stuff, but it's VERY dangerous to handle. I switched to phosphoric for safety and ease of use. I now use the hydrochloric acid for cleaning. Sulfuric and hydrochloric acids are similar in handling.

The best thing I like about phosphoric acid is that it's flavor neutral compared to the others.

 

[bguzz]

I have been using lactic acid and if used in small quantities...like less than 5ml for a 5 gallon batch, you won't pick up any flavor issues. I tried it with several lighter styles and it has proven to be a easy and effective tool.

 

[WayFrae]

Use a different type of acid. Sulphuric acid is very dangerous if mishandled. If you do end up using it, only add the acid to water. Never add water to the acid. It can cause splashing and will heat up very quickly if you add water to the acid.

 

[foodgrade]

interesting how you say handling sulfuric and hydrochloric is dangerous but adding it to beers is great? LOL. Anyone here actually drank something they brewed with sulfuric or hydrochloric acid? Does it change structure when added with beer chemicals? Does it not burn you when drinking then? Just estimate how much exactly is in a bottle of beer? A tiny amount? A teaspoon? Less?

I can understand phosphoric acids since it's mostly used in colas. I would assume the acids you all are using had to be food grade? Any good source to get these? Just want to know a good source you all tried and trust.

 

[mabrungard]

Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of people who have used and consumed beer with those acids. Like any acid, they contribute hydrogen protons along with their anion such as chloride or sulfate. You are WAY over thinking this.

 

[Homercidal]

interesting how you say handling sulfuric and hydrochloric is dangerous but adding it to beers is great? LOL. Anyone here actually drank something they brewed with sulfuric or hydrochloric acid? Does it change structure when added with beer chemicals? Does it not burn you when drinking then? Just estimate how much exactly is in a bottle of beer? A tiny amount? A teaspoon? Less?

I can understand phosphoric acids since it's mostly used in colas. I would assume the acids you all are using had to be food grade? Any good source to get these? Just want to know a good source you all tried and trust.

It is dangerous until you dilute it. For example, the jug of hydrochloric acid I used to use would have vapor coming our of the mouth. A drop on the concrete would make it smoke and bubble.

I would mix with distilled water and store in a plastic bottle in my brew kit. It was much less dangerous there.

When you mix it with water for the mash, it will dilute and the pH will rise to a safer level. I would add a few ml to 4-5 gallons of beer for the mash.

 

[Homercidal]

Also, I do recommend buying a bottle of Phosphoric acid from Amazon, rather than using a dangerous acid. One thing I like about Phos is that there is less anions to worry about when using it, so your water adjustments are somewhat easier, and it doesn't contribute the flavors that sulfuric and hydrochloric acid does.

Lactic or sauermalz are other good options for lowering the pH of the mash.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

+1 for phos. I used it all the time. And, worste case if you have to buy a gallon of it you can also dilute for use in a garden.

 

[foodgrade]

what's its use for in the garden?

also, what is a "mash"? I keep reading people say that. I'm new in this forum and do not know the code words or slang yet.

+1 for phos. I used it all the time. And, worste case if you have to buy a gallon of it you can also dilute for use in a garden.

 

[afr0byte]

what's its use for in the garden?

also, what is a "mash"? I keep reading people say that. I'm new in this forum and do not know the code words or slang yet.

If you don't know what a mash is then you likely don't need to worry about acids. The mash is where you mix crushed grain and hot water, and then hold it at a particular temp(s) for a certain amount of time, to convert starches to sugars/etc.

 

[afr0byte]

what's its use for in the garden?

It can provide phosphorus for the plants...the P in NPK fertilizer numbers

 

[foodgrade]

OK so without acids it's still beer? So mix crushed grains and hot water, how do I hold it at a particular temperature? Which machine does this? Like those I see advertised on this forum? So once startches convert to sugars, that's beer?

If you don't know what a mash is then you likely don't need to worry about acids. The mash is where you mix crushed grain and hot water, and then hold it at a particular temp(s) for a certain amount of time, to convert starches to sugars/etc.

 

[afr0byte]

OK so without acids it's still beer? So mix crushed grains and hot water, how do I hold it at a particular temperature? Which machine does this? Like those I see advertised on this forum? So once startches convert to sugars, that's beer?

Without acids the starches in the grain would still convert at the right temperature in water, but the flavor of the beer might not be ideal. You'd hold the temperature, most commonly among homebrewers, by mixing the grains and hot water in a cooler (picnic cooler). The resulting liquid isn't beer until you separate the sugary liquid from grain, boil it with hops, chill it, pitch yeast, and then let the yeast ferment the sugars in the liquid.