Grainfather!!

[MeanLowerLow]

I've had success by just using a small fan to blow a hole in the foam. I also stir with a SS spoon once it settles down, so it won't foam up again.

Fermcaps is worth having on hand. It cost me $5 at my LHBS and it's probably a lifetime supply if kept refrigerated. I use it primarily to control boil overs when making a starter, but it is nice to have if anything gets out of control including fermentation.

 

[MT2sum]

I was all excited about the GF, but now I'm not too sure any more. I see too many posts that say you have to adjust your water, adjust your recipe, etc. I'm wondering about just electrifying the pots/kettles I already have, buy a low cost controller and pump from someone like Brau Supply that will work with a single pot BIAB (whether bag or basket), HERMS system and do it that way. I've looked at the others, and here it says that the GF takes about 5-7 hours from start to finish ...... BrewBoss claims 3 1/2 hours, start to finish, but their system is double what a GF is, I've read that the Zymatic has leak problems, Braukaiser has other problems and Easy-brew is wayyyy to expensive ....... so I'm still looking around, (like I said earlier, it will be at least July or August before I'll have enough money saved for a GF anyway), so I have lots of time to research. I'm not totally giving up, I just want to be sure that I'm buying what's best for me.

 

[MT2sum]

Fermcaps is worth having on hand. It cost me $5 at my LHBS and it's probably a lifetime supply if kept refrigerated. I use it primarily to control boil overs when making a starter, but it is nice to have if anything gets out of control including fermentation.

But what kind of chemicals are you putting in your brew? I don't know what's in Fermcaps , so I'll go take a look-see, but I want no chemicals (especially the ones I can't pronounce) in my beer - but that's just me!

 

[MeanLowerLow]

I've never personally noticed or ever heard of fermcaps causing any problems/flavor etc. - that being said your point is well taken. I really only use it for starters, and I only make starters for high gravity beers. Without it my Erlenmeyer flask would geyser the wort at boil.

For the Grainfather, I make sure I'm present at boil and use my paddle to dissipate the foam. Learned that trick from the GF intro video and have done it every brew on the GF (I think I'm around 10 now?).

 

[MT2sum]

I got this off homebrew-stackexchange.com There's more comments, I just took a few.
NOTE: Denny Conn answered in this thread. And this is one of those chemicals I can't pronounce - I'll just stick to my fan and spoon.

What is Fermcap-S and what does it do? http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/questions/3661/what-is-fermcap-s-and-what-does-it-do
Lately I've been doing some very large boils -- 7 gallons in a 7.5 gallon kettle. To prevent boilovers, I've been using Fermcap-s. It's great, and I've had no boilover problems, but I have no idea how Fermcap works or what's in it. What is this stuff? Other than preventing boilover and excessive kreusen, does it have any effect on my beer?

Here is a link to FDA outlaying the CFR for dimethylpolysiloxane. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=173.340 – user3708 Aug 8 '13 at 18:14 7

Fermcap-S is a silicone (Dimethylpolysiloxane) based emulsion that works by breaking surface tension. It has no effect on the finished product if used in the boil at designated dosage. If used in the fermenter, I have read that it will increase residual bitterness by ~10%. This is likely due to the compound binding to the yeast cells before the dissolved bittering compounds do, thereby leaving more bitterness in the beer. I have not verified this myself.
Stick to recommended dosage, or you will exceed FDA guidelines for silicone content in your beer.

The FDA has recently decided that Fermcap S should be filtered before you drink your beer. Fortunately, there's Fermcap AT which is fine to use without filtering.

Here's some info from Birko, which makes a product very much like Fermcap..

"Brewers should not use silicone-containing antifoam for unfiltered beers. The FDA allows active silicone to be used up to 10 parts-per-million (ppm) but stipulates that the silicone must be removed prior to packaging by either filtration or centrifugation. In the case of unfiltered beers, use a food grade, non-silicone antifoam. We sell a food grade, canola oil based antifoam that works well for this purpose and has an added benefit of being yeast-friendly at the same time. Look for my article on antifoams in the brewery in the July/August issue of The New Brewer. Please contact me directly if you would like to discuss this or any other matter further.
Cheers!
Dana Johnson Brewery Technical Representative BIRKO Corporation Henderson, Colorado www.birkocorp.com:


edited Sep 6 '11 at 12:19
Ray
395211

answered Apr 12 '11 at 16:20
Denny Conn♦
27.7k12353

Could you link to something that describes this decision? – Hopwise Apr 12 '11 at 19:05
I'll try to find it, but it may take a while. IIRC, it was on the probrewer forum. – Denny Conn♦ Apr 12 '11 at 20:53
Here's info from a guy at Birko, which makes a product very much like Fermcap... – Denny Conn♦ Apr 13 '11 at 15:10
So a guy that's selling a competitor to fermcap says don't use fermcap. This is not the most convincing argument. Still, I'll probably give Fermcap-AT a try if I can find some. – Hopwise Apr 13 '11 at 17:36 2
Here is the regulation (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title21-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title21-vol3-sec173-340.pdf) that limits occurrence of the active ingredient in Fermcap to 10 ppm. – Chino Brews Oct 15 '14 at 18:49

 

[gspot]

I was all excited about the GF, but now I'm not too sure any more. I see too many posts that say you have to adjust your water, adjust your recipe, etc. I'm wondering about just electrifying the pots/kettles I already have, buy a low cost controller and pump from someone like Brau Supply that will work with a single pot BIAB (whether bag or basket), HERMS system and do it that way.

Not sure what you mean about having to adjust everything specifically for the GF. I build my water from RO but have made perfectly good beer with regular tap water. This would depend on your local water supply of course and has nothing to do with the GF.

As far as the recipe, I use less grain because the GF is so efficient. But it's not really that much less, and you could make fine beer without adjusting anything--it would just be a wee bit stronger than the recipe intended if you are getting more than 70-75% efficiency. Adjusting for efficiency is something you'd do with any setup including the others you mentioned or a homemade one.

I don't think there'll be many people in this thread who will try to talk you out of the GF as most seem pretty pleased with it, myself included. If, for whatever reason, the GF were no longer available at some distant point in the future when I needed a replacement, I might try building a clone myself, but as long as they are on the market for ca. $900, that seems more trouble than its worth.

 

[Grzebyk26]

What have you guys done to minimize the grain in your boil kettle? I have heard of people using paint strainer bags or SS mesh screens. Has anyone tried these methods?

 

[d-bone]

brew boss is 3 1/2 hrs if you are using their 240v system, I would guess. If thats what you want, go for it. but if you buy thier 120v system, I am betting you would find the times to be about the same.

 

[gspot]

What have you guys done to minimize the grain in your boil kettle? I have heard of people using paint strainer bags or SS mesh screens. Has anyone tried these methods?

I'm not getting any grain in my boil. If, when you dough in, you are careful not to spill any down the sides between the mash tun and kettle sides, and you use the overflow tube "cap," you shouldn't have any. What little comes through the bottom screen will be caught above the top screen during recirculation. At first, it'll flow down the overflow, but over the course of the mash as wort quits running down the overflow and mostly through the grain, it'll get filtered out.

 

[Diamonddave74]

To the question about time my first brew took 6.5 hours BUT I mashed for 90 minutes and lost 30 minutes due to my set up mistake. I honestly think that once I get a few brews under my belt ill get that time down.

Also no grain in my wort floating around. I think I had a few hulls but those were filtered out when I removed the grain basket.

 

[pullen0]

I've had my Grainfather for roughly 2 months and was just now able to get a Sparge Heater. Planning to do a brew in a few days so I did the final assembly and cleaning of the Grainfather today. With a Grain Coat, I had a starting water temp of 55 degrees F and a room temp of 70 degrees F. I started off with just over 5 gallon of water and it took 47 minutes to reach 150 degrees F. From there, it took 37 minutes to reach 212 degrees F.

I left the lid on during the whole heating process and had a more noticeable boil with the lid on than after I removed it. I never saw my display read EE and it hovered between 211 and 212. Boil looked good enough to me. I also didn't add the sparge water volume when I ramped up to boil. Even still, it will be less than an hour to mash temp and and less than an hour to boil temp.

I have 55 degree F well water and hooked the counter flow chiller up to drain after reaching the boil. I've put a water pressure regulator on the line I will be using for the counter flow chiller. I don't know what the pressure is set at but it's not enough to lift the hot water out line. Water was coming out of the wort cold line between 65-70 degrees with the pump ball valve at full open. I'm amazed at how quickly this thing chilled the water. I'll have to get a gauge to see what my water pressure is set at.

 

[d-bone]

I have found that I reach my strike temp much faster if I recirculate while heating.

 

[MeanLowerLow]

I brew in my kitchen. I have the counter flow wort chiller hooked to my faucet throughout the entire brew, and I use the red "hot" tube as a hose to fill the GF. I make sure the the water is as hot as it can be, it comes out of my faucet at 121*F according to the GF. This reduces the time it takes to reach strike temp to about 15-20 min, depending on what temp I'm shooting for obvi. Obviously if you're using a hose or don't have access to hot water this technique won't work.

 

[Yambor44]

I'm pouring (for now) onto the top plate, trying to maintain ~1/2" of water on top and not let it fully drain off the plate. I'm getting closer, maybe by May, to getting my brew area done in the basement where I will have an elevated kettle and adjust the valve. I was thinking you could put an inline valve on your hose there to control the sparge flow (and elevate it the 5" or so you mentioned!).

I actually have one I plan to use left over from a previous configuration!

 

[user 4295]

I actually have one I plan to use left over from a previous configuration!

Would it be possible to change the valve on GF's sparge water heater?

 

[Anyhowe]

I brew in my kitchen. I have the counter flow wort chiller hooked to my faucet throughout the entire brew, and I use the red "hot" tube as a hose to fill the GF. I make sure the the water is as hot as it can be, it comes out of my faucet at 121*F according to the GF. This reduces the time it takes to reach strike temp to about 15-20 min, depending on what temp I'm shooting for obvi. Obviously if you're using a hose or don't have access to hot water this technique won't work.

FYI.
Hot water dissolves contaminants and may contain metals, sediment and bacteria that build up in the water heater.

 

[d-bone]

FYI.
Hot water dissolves contaminants and may contain metals, sediment and bacteria that build up in the water heater.

this is why I fill up with cold water ran through a .5 micron filter. I think my water ends up around 45 degrees and takes about 45 minutes to get to strike temp. I just got a heat stick for CIP cleaning though and will start using that to help speed things up.

 

[Yambor44]

Would it be possible to change the valve on GF's sparge water heater?

You could, it has a nut on the inside but the spigot and site tube are all one unit. I'm just going to use the valve inline.

Something like this would be the easiest.

 

[pullen0]

this is why I fill up with cold water ran through a .5 micron filter. I think my water ends up around 45 degrees and takes about 45 minutes to get to strike temp. I just got a heat stick for CIP cleaning though and will start using that to help speed things up.

This. I've seen the gunk in my water heater. I pulled the anode rod as I think that was responsible for most of the odor in my water.

My tap water is 55 degrees. Thinking about filling my mash water the night before and covering it. I can start heating my water at room temp of 70 degrees. That should cut down on the heating time some.

 

[Chiror0b]

I'm in. Placed the order this afternoon with Northern, then had to get the coat directly from Grainfather since Northern didn't carry it! (boo).

Hopefully I'll be able to play with my new toy this weekend!

 

[gspot]

I'm in. Placed the order this afternoon with Northern, then had to get the coat directly from Grainfather since Northern didn't carry it! (boo).

Hopefully I'll be able to play with my new toy this weekend!

Woo hoo! Another joins the fold. Start catching up on your sleep right now and stockpiling kegs, cause you're in for some fun times ahead! Prost!

 

[MT2sum]

Not sure what you mean about having to adjust everything specifically for the GF. I build my water from RO but have made perfectly good beer with regular tap water. This would depend on your local water supply of course and has nothing to do with the GF.

Yeah, we don't even want to talk about my local town water supply ..... sometimes, without warning it comes out of the tap looking like an English Brown like Newcastle, or Yellow like SNPA, and other times like an English Porter! We drive 65 miles just to get decent drinking water and have about 50 or so gallons, in 5 gallon jugs, of drinking water on hand at all times LOL.

As far as the recipe, I use less grain because the GF is so efficient. But it's not really that much less, and you could make fine beer without adjusting anything--it would just be a wee bit stronger than the recipe intended if you are getting more than 70-75% efficiency. Adjusting for efficiency is something you'd do with any setup including the others you mentioned or a homemade one.

My comment was NOT to Diss the GF. I have noticed that some people have (and don't ask me to go back over 130 pages to find the exact posts ) mentioned that they had to use the GF water calculator to get their brews right, becuz using what they would normally use didn't fit or something - and others have said that they would need to throw a little extra grain into the basket ("becuz grain is still cheap") to get the right OG or FG ...... no disrespect intended or inferred ...... just trying to keep track of differences/complaints/discoveries on the different systems before I make my choice.

MT2sum

 

[gspot]

Yeah, we don't even want to talk about my local town water supply ..... sometimes, without warning it comes out of the tap looking like an English Brown like Newcastle, or Yellow like SNPA, and other times like an English Porter! We drive 65 miles just to get decent drinking water and have about 50 or so gallons, in 5 gallon jugs, of drinking water on hand at all times LOL.



My comment was NOT to Diss the GF. I have noticed that some people have (and don't ask me to go back over 130 pages to find the exact posts ) mentioned that they had to use the GF water calculator to get their brews right, becuz using what they would normally use didn't fit or something - and others have said that they would need to throw a little extra grain into the basket ("becuz grain is still cheap") to get the right OG or FG ...... no disrespect intended or inferred ...... just trying to keep track of differences/complaints/discoveries on the different systems before I make my choice.

MT2sum

Yes, there is a simple mathematical formula in the user manual to derive your exact quantities of both mash and sparge water. I just put it in a spreadsheet on my phone so I have instant access to it at all times. It is based on your total weight of grain. This last brew, an Oktoberfest with 9,5 lbs, needed 4.46 gals mash water and 3.88 gals sparge water. I just rounded it up to 4.5 gals and 4 gals respectively. Worked out nicely.

If you don't want to bother messing with the formula, there is, as you mentioned, an online calculator, as well as a recipe calculation app for android and iPhone that will give you the information. I know you're not dissing the GF--my only point being that it is no different or more involved than using any other brewery.

Sorry to hear about your crappy water. That sounds pretty bad. I have a sediment prefilter on my RO unit, and it's entertaining to watch it turn from white to orangish-brown over the course of a couple months use. I was surprised the first time because that's not apparent in the glass. Good luck on deciding on a system. ..

 

[Chiror0b]

Does anyone know the recommended hop basket size/micron for the Grainfather? Searching reveals lots of discussion, but no sizes/products to buy.

 

[jbb3]

Does anyone know the recommended hop basket size/micron for the Grainfather? Searching reveals lots of discussion, but no sizes/products to buy.

This would probably do the trick...

 

[d-bone]

This would probably do the trick...

I bought a similar one to this from Utah Biodiesel Supply, except mine is 6 x 14. I probably would not get the smaller one, even though it is cheaper. I could be wrong about this, but it seems like your hop utilization would go down the smaller filter or "spider" you used. I am happy with the 14" length. In a 6 gallon boil, the wort line is at just about 3/4 up the spider.

 

[Chiror0b]

I bought a similar one to this from Utah Biodiesel Supply, except mine is 6 x 14. I probably would not get the smaller one, even though it is cheaper. I could be wrong about this, but it seems like your hop utilization would go down the smaller filter or "spider" you used. I am happy with the 14" length. In a 6 gallon boil, the wort line is at just about 3/4 up the spider.

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

 

[MeanLowerLow]

FYI.
Hot water dissolves contaminants and may contain metals, sediment and bacteria that build up in the water heater.

Well damn it, never thought of that.

Do you think I need to clean the wort chiller or just switch to cold water?

 

[scallopking]

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

Fwiw Mine got really clogged in certain hops only. I haven't used it in a while now and suspect that the utilization wasn't as good as tossing them right in, my IPAs are much better I think with flavor and aroma. Plus there was usually some wort left no matter what that was a pain to drain out without spilling. I can't recall that it helped with running the pump faster either.

 

[tssgery]

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

I have a 6x14 300 micron and just brewed a Zombie Dust clone with about 5.5 oz of hops in the boil.

I like the size but the filter did clog, not much got out of it. It would probably be ok with 2-3 ounces. I might get/try a 400 micron size to see how it does.

 

[TBC]

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

I use the 6"x14" basket 300 micron from arbor fab. This doesn't clog but there is quite a bit of buildup on the sides. If I were to get another one I would order the 400 micron size because it would hold a little less back and right now I barely have any buildup on my pump screen.

 

[Eichler]

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

I've read 300 for whole hops. 400 for pellets.

 

[d-bone]

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

mine is also 300 micron. it doesnt really "clog". but does take a while for the wort to run out if I lift it out of the boil. I just dunk a couple times after every addition to kind of move things around and keep it from packing down too much. works great. I would probably order 400 micron if I had to do it again though.

 

[gspot]

Anybody used leaf hops with the GF? How'd it do?

When I bought it, I was excited to be able to use pellets again. I only ever used leaf with my propane system because it has a plate chiller, but the variety is much more limited. Now I'm considering going back to leaf only because the transfer to the fermenter is so painfully slow. This last brew only used 1.5oz but was still slower than molasses. At one point I had my wife lift up the chiller while I scraped the filter with a spoon, which helped a bit, but soon slowed again. I'm considering moving the chiller off the top of the unit in the future so I can scrape the filter constantly while transferring.

 

[d-bone]

300 or 400 micron? I read several people complaining about the basket getting clogged, so I'd like it to do it's job and keep the pump from clogging but at the same time if it gets blocked I then I won't get the hops into the wort properly.

mine is also 300 micron. it doesnt really "clog". but does take a while for the wort to run out if I lift it out of the boil. I just dunk a couple times after every addition to kind of move things around and keep it from packing down too much. works great. I would probably order 400 micron if I had to do it again though.

 

[celiacguy]

I think I found another use for the Grainfather. I heat sanitized some keg parts tonight. With my propane burner I didn't use heat to sanitize anything because I didn't want to melt any rubber or plastic parts. I put the keg parts in the basket and set the temperature controller to 65c and recirculated. 30 minutes should be enough at that temperature. The keg had an infection that I was worried might stick around after PBW and starsan. This gives me a little more peace of mind.

 

[Tang10]

Anybody used leaf hops with the GF? How'd it do?

When I bought it, I was excited to be able to use pellets again. I only ever used leaf with my propane system because it has a plate chiller, but the variety is much more limited. Now I'm considering going back to leaf only because the transfer to the fermenter is so painfully slow. This last brew only used 1.5oz but was still slower than molasses. At one point I had my wife lift up the chiller while I scraped the filter with a spoon, which helped a bit, but soon slowed again. I'm considering moving the chiller off the top of the unit in the future so I can scrape the filter constantly while transferring.

I just used leaf last weekend......worked perfect for me. Almost like a nice filter around the pump screen that flowed from start to finish. I only used 2 oz of leaf if that matters.

 

[gspot]

Thanks! I may go back to using them after I run out of the bulk bag of Hallertau I bought.

 

[jbb3]

I think I found another use for the Grainfather. I heat sanitized some keg parts tonight. With my propane burner I didn't use heat to sanitize anything because I didn't want to melt any rubber or plastic parts. I put the keg parts in the basket and set the temperature controller to 65c and recirculated. 30 minutes should be enough at that temperature. The keg had an infection that I was worried might stick around after PBW and starsan. This gives me a little more peace of mind.

The standard in the food industry for sanitizing is 77c/170f

 

[Yambor44]

I've used up to 6 ounces of pellet hops. Posted a video a while back in the thread of someone using 8 ounces of pellet hops, neither of which clogged, both mine and his are throwing the hops directly into the boil.

Was it slow on the transfer to the fermenter? Absolutely. I just use that time to clean everything I can that isn't being used at the moment.

I was going to try taking the spring and ball out during the transfer to see if that helped, but haven't done that yet.

I have a 300 micron 6x14 hop screen I used to use. I'm not excited about my wort inside the screen not boiling while everything outside the screen is. Mine never clogged, I just feel better not using one. as others have mentioned, if you really want to use one, go with the 400 micron.