First Time Dry Hopping - What Went Wrong?

[HoppyMcHopFace]

Hi All,

I've been attempting to make a 'punk ipa' rip off and have been following the official Brew Dog 'DIY Dog' steps for getting the right amount of hops. I've been using extract and during the boil I added hops at the start, middle and 10 minutes prior to flame-out. I then fermented the beer at 19degrees C for 3 weeks and was really happy with the taste at the end of this period - lightly hoppy, nicely bitter and no off flavours. I then moved on the dry hopping. For the dry hopping I then added 190g (6.7oz) of mainly flower hops to a carboy with the siphoned off beer in cylinderical hop socks sealed up with cable ties and filled with sanitised marbles for weight. Initially I was concerned as it turns out I didn't add enough marbles to the socks for them to sink completely, but after a day pretty much all of the hops were indeed submerged. I left my carboy for 5 days at 14degrees C as per brewdog instructions for the dry hopping. Today (at the end of those 5 days) I had a taste of the dry hopped beer and there was no noticeable increase in hoppiness compared to at the end of fermentation, pre dry-hop! Furthermore, I squeezed some juice out of hop sacks and the result was maybe only marginally hoppier. For that reason I don't think the hop bags 'not sinking to the bottom' could be a valid explanation for the lack of hoppiness. I would have thought 6.7oz of hops would be more than enough for dry hopping - I was even a little concerned for ending up with a beer which would be too hoppy!


Could anyone tell me what I did wrong? My guesses would be:

Some hops were stored in tupperware boxes in the fridge after opening the vacuum pack for 3 weeks - this could have caused the hops to become less fresh (however at least 50g were from fresh vacuum sealed containers)

The hop sacks used was too narrow?

The hop sacks didn't sink to the bottom (but after squeezing and tasting them after dry hopping I noticed hardly any flavour difference to the rest of the beer).

I didn't dry hop for long enough (contrary to brewdog instructions of 5 days).

Maybe it takes time for the hop flavour to develop post dry hopping? i.e. after a month of sitting in a bottle, I'll be able to taste more hops?

Other than that, I'm at a loss!

Would be hugely appreciated if someone could tell me what I possibly did wrong. Many, many thanks!

Ben.

 

[Shanomack54]

Dry hopping conducted at that stage of fermentation will really only give you a noticeable aroma difference. How is the aroma of the beer after dry hopping?

Your dry hopping method seems to be okay. 5 Days for dry hopping is plenty of time.

You'll definitely want your dry hops to be as fresh as possible. Vacuum sealing them after opening is a good idea.


Shane

 

[GoeHaarden]

For more hop flavor, increase your 15-30 minute hop additions.

 

[HoppyMcHopFace]

Just to clarify, by hop flavour I mean aroma. Not sure if lack of freshness could be the answer as I used about 50g of fresh (from vacuum pack) hops and the rest were from fresh vacuum packs left in a Tupperware for only 3 weeks.

Could it be that I just need to wait until after carbonation for the hop aroma to shine through?

Thanks for your replies,

Ben

 

[RM-MN]

Just to clarify, by hop flavour I mean aroma. Not sure if lack of freshness could be the answer as I used about 50g of fresh (from vacuum pack) hops and the rest were from fresh vacuum packs left in a Tupperware for only 3 weeks.

Could it be that I just need to wait until after carbonation for the hop aroma to shine through?

Thanks for your replies,

Ben

The aroma will be carried from the beer to your nose easier with the CO2 bubbles helping it move from the beer but there should still be significant aroma now too. Get your nose close to the beer and sniff. Warmer also helps to move aroma so if you have cold crashed you are limiting the aroma.

 

[Rob2010SS]

My opinion, you dry hopped a bit cold at 57*F (I know your instructions stated to do so). I've always gotten fairly good results with dry hopping at room temp (70*F ish). Brulosophy did an xBmt with this actually - http://brulosophy.com/2016/01/18/dry-hop-temperature-warm-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/

He states: "My personal experience was represented well by the tasting panel in that I was able to tell the beers apart with decent consistency, though it was by no means trivially easy. I noted greater aromatic intensity in the warm dry hopped beer with a more pungent fruity note. In fact, it was similar to the difference in aroma I notice when I pour myself a cold IPA and it warms over time. The flavor was a similar story, I thought the cold dry hopped beer was slightly smoother and less intensely hoppy, while the warm dry hopped beer exhibited a bit more hop bite or sharpness, though it didn’t come across as harsh."

The other factor here, I think, is oxidation during the dry hopping. Oxygen is not your friend when trying to accentuate hop aroma. If you don't minimize oxidation during dry hopping, you may not get the results you're looking for.

How did you dry hop?
Did you transfer to secondary for dry hop?
What containers are you using for primary and secondary fermentation?

These are just my opinions, I could be off.

 

[applescrap]

For more hop flavor, increase your 15-30 minute hop additions.

I think that this would likely add bitterness, and in actual fact many of the "hoppiest" beers out there dont even have hops in the boil anymore.

 

[applescrap]

You cant smell near 6.5 oz of dry hop? Give it a little time perhaps you are looking to closely for something and missing what is there, i know i do that sometimes. How much hops did you put in the boil? And when? That could be playing a factor. Also if you are sick or your sinuses are acting up or if you smoke then those things will affect your ability to smell the hoppiness. I would love to see a picture of it, maybe take a break and come back to it with a fresh attitude later then close your eyes and not try to think about anything and let your senses take over. Sounds like a really good hoppy beer to me.

 

[bransona]

What kind of hops are you using? Do they present a big nose before they hit the beer?

Also, +1 to late kettle additions giving better results for flavor and aroma. My favorite SMaSH doesn't get a single hop before the last 10 minutes of the boil, then a ton at FO and 170° whirlpool, as well as a healthy dry hop.

 

[seatazzz]

Another method to try is to actually drop the dry hop BEFORE primary fermentation is completely done, maybe a couple of points above your target FG. The theory is that the yeast are still moving around, stirring things up, and you're supposed to get better utilisation of the hops. I've tried it and I seem to get a lot more hop aroma. The disadvantage to this method is IPA's really need to be drunk fresh, and adding the dry hop that early won't give the beer as much time to condition before the hops start to fade. Unless you're me and can kill a keg in less than a week.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Unless you're me and can kill a keg in less than a week.

Cheers to that! Just killed one in 4 days! No, I do not have a problem

 

[GoeHaarden]

I think that this would likely add bitterness, and in actual fact many of the "hoppiest" beers out there dont even have hops in the boil anymore.

So just flame out, whirlpool, and dry hops for flavor? You don't think late boil additions impart hop flavor? I know you'll have a smoother bitterness with 30 min additions as opposed to 60 min additions, but doesn't this smoothness come from flavor retained and not boiled off? I haven't done an IPA without any hops in the boil, so maybe I'll try this out...have any recipe suggestions?

 

[GoeHaarden]

Cheers to that! Just killed one in 4 days! No, I do not have a problem

Roughly 10 pints/day for 4 days, impressive work my friend. The first step is admitting it...

 

[Rob2010SS]

So just flame out, whirlpool, and dry hops for flavor? You don't think late boil additions impart hop flavor? I know you'll have a smoother bitterness with 30 min additions as opposed to 60 min additions, but doesn't this smoothness come from flavor retained and not boiled off? I haven't done an IPA without any hops in the boil, so maybe I'll try this out...have any recipe suggestions?

If you go with a NEIPA hop schedule, that's exactly what they do - small bittering addition at 60 min, flameout, whirlpool, dry hop 1, dry hop 2. Nothing in between 60 min and flameout. The one my wife really likes a lot is the following

.75oz Warrior 60 min
1oz each citra/vic secret/mosaic Flame out
1oz each citra/vic secret/mosaid whirlpool @ 150*F
1.5oz Citra/1oz mosaic/.5oz vic secret dry hop #1
1.5oz citra/1oz mosaic/.5oz vic secret dry hop #2

 

[GoeHaarden]

If you go with a NEIPA hop schedule, that's exactly what they do - small bittering addition at 60 min, flameout, whirlpool, dry hop 1, dry hop 2. Nothing in between 60 min and flameout. The one my wife really likes a lot is the following

.75oz Warrior 60 min
1oz each citra/vic secret/mosaic Flame out
1oz each citra/vic secret/mosaid whirlpool @ 150*F
1.5oz Citra/1oz mosaic/.5oz vic secret dry hop #1
1.5oz citra/1oz mosaic/.5oz vic secret dry hop #2

Thanks! I haven't jumped on this NEIPA train yet so not really familiar with typical schedules, but 6oz after the boil sounds like it would do the trick for all hop character. Haha. Might have to try it out, would you say 2-row/golden promise/maybe some carapils for this brew?

 

[HoppyMcHopFace]

My opinion, you dry hopped a bit cold at 57*F (I know your instructions stated to do so). I've always gotten fairly good results with dry hopping at room temp (70*F ish). Brulosophy did an xBmt with this actually - http://brulosophy.com/2016/01/18/dry-hop-temperature-warm-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/

He states: "My personal experience was represented well by the tasting panel in that I was able to tell the beers apart with decent consistency, though it was by no means trivially easy. I noted greater aromatic intensity in the warm dry hopped beer with a more pungent fruity note. In fact, it was similar to the difference in aroma I notice when I pour myself a cold IPA and it warms over time. The flavor was a similar story, I thought the cold dry hopped beer was slightly smoother and less intensely hoppy, while the warm dry hopped beer exhibited a bit more hop bite or sharpness, though it didn’t come across as harsh."

The other factor here, I think, is oxidation during the dry hopping. Oxygen is not your friend when trying to accentuate hop aroma. If you don't minimize oxidation during dry hopping, you may not get the results you're looking for.

How did you dry hop?
Did you transfer to secondary for dry hop?
What containers are you using for primary and secondary fermentation?

These are just my opinions, I could be off.

I used:

Hop|grams|effect

Chinook 20 Start Bitter
Ahtanum 12.5 Start Bitter
Chinook 20 Middle Flavour
Ahtanum 12.5 Middle Flavour
Chinook 27.5 End Flavour
Ahtanum 12.5 End Flavour
Simcoe 12.5 End Flavour
Nelson Sauvin 12.5 End Flavour
Chinook 47.5 Dry Hop Aroma
Ahtanum 37.5 Dry Hop Aroma
Simcoe 37.5 Dry Hop Aroma
Nelson Sauvin 30 Dry Hop Aroma
Cascade 37.5 Dry Hop Aroma

Aha, oxidation. Yes, maybe that's the issue. I transferred from a 5gal PET bucket to a 5gal PET carboy using an autosiphon but the tube still had some kinks in it which resulted in extra air getting into my brew at the end of the siphoning. I didn't think I inadvertently added too much oxygen to the beer at the time of siphoning but I have no point of reference.

Maybe next time I won't transfer to a secondary to prevent oxidation.

I'll probably crack open a bottle in a week and see if I notice more hoppiness

Thanks all.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Thanks! I haven't jumped on this NEIPA train yet so not really familiar with typical schedules, but 6oz after the boil sounds like it would do the trick for all hop character. Haha. Might have to try it out, would you say 2-row/golden promise/maybe some carapils for this brew?

Really depends on what you want to do. If you want to go true NEIPA, my last one was 80% golden promise and 20% flaked oats. That'll give it a real orange juice look. I've done a couple more complicated ones where the grain bills were a bit more involved. Feel free to pm me and we can discuss it. Don't want to hijack the OP's thread too bad with a topic other than his question.

 

[ong]

Hoppy, I’m wondering what hops variety you used for dry hopping. English varieties like EKG or Target and noble varieties like Saaz or Hallertauer just don’t contribute the massive blast of aroma we’re used to from other strains. Your dry hopping procedure seems fine to me.

 

[applescrap]

So just flame out, whirlpool, and dry hops for flavor? You don't think late boil additions impart hop flavor? I know you'll have a smoother bitterness with 30 min additions as opposed to 60 min additions, but doesn't this smoothness come from flavor retained and not boiled off? I haven't done an IPA without any hops in the boil, so maybe I'll try this out...have any recipe suggestions?

Sure! Check out the julius clone thread. Yep, just as you say. Flameout, whirlpool and dry hop. That recipe shared above is it. A massive charge at wp and dh.