First All Grain Batch....Looking For Some Guidance

[Tpost704]

Hello All,

I am going on my 6th batch of home brew and I think I'm going to give all grain brewing a shot via the brew in a bag method. I came across BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde recipe and thought it would be a good candidate for this brew. I have included the recipe below. I got my tap water tested and the results were extremely alkaline. I have decided to use all RO water and make additions to get to my target profile. My plan was to do a 5 gallon batch with a 1.5 qt/lb water to grain ratio for the mash. I have a 15 gallon kettle so space is not an issue. I was then going to dunk sparge and boil as usual. My question is what water additions would you recommend I make to the mash water. I have been playing around with Brun' Water but am still learning what it's all about. Also, I was going to dunk sarge in plain RO water with no additions. Should I consider adding salt additions during the boil? Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!

****5 Gallon Batch****

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.57 gal
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
0.75 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (55 min)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (35 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (20 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (5 min)
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) (Hydrated)


Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.

 

[Kent88]

First all-grain and you're already talking about water adjustments?

I'd recommend you use bottled spring/filtered water for the mash and RO with some minor adjustments for sparge.

 

[MaxStout]

If you want to get the basics on water salts, this article is a great place to start.

 

[RM-MN]

Mash pH is important so you do need to plan to adjust the water for that part but the bare fact that your water is pretty alkaline doesn't tell the whole story nor does it mean that your water isn't suitable for the mash. Posting the water report here will help people help you.

Buying spring water for the mash might be a good option for this batch. You only need it for the mash as the pH of the sparge isn't important unless your tap water will impact the beer flavor since the sparge is simply rinsing the sugars already converted off the grain. If you are worried about the flavor from you tap water, use spring water for the sparge too.

If you use RO water for the mash and the mineral additions are right for that you don't need to add any more minerals.

 

[Baabaad00]

I'm newer to brewing and the exact recipe is the one i'm doing next. When I read you saying your newer and already concerned w/ water chemistry, i was like. o.0 why? It doesn't seem necessary until waay later, unles it's an issue with your first 6? did you adjust your water for the others? you get off flavors from the water?

As RM-MN, mentioned mash pH is important, but as long as you got that down, idk why I would ever mess with it unless my tap water was like pool water. There's so many other things to focus on your first time round that it would be the last thing on my mind.

just my 2 cents from someone else going through what you are.

 

[Griffin495]

Can't help you with the water additions, but have you thought of doing a full volume mash and skipping the sparge step? You've got easily got enough room in your kettle. Hell, I did a full mash last weekend with 14.5 lbs of grain in a 10 gallon kettle. One less step and a way to simplify your process. Just a thought. Good luck and hats off to you for jumping into water chemistry already.

 

[LittleRiver]

A full volume (no sparge) mash does simplify things, and the efficiency can be great if you have a mill and you can grind your grain very fine.

However if you don't have a mill, the crush you'll receive from your local or mail order supplier may not be fine enough to achieve your target OG. In that case a sparge will help you get there, or at least get closer.

If you like BIAB, investing in your own grain mill is highly recommended. I get great results with the Kegco mill, set to .025".

 

[Tpost704]

Here is my water report

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 370
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.62
Cations / Anions, me/L / 6.7 7.0

ppm

Sodium, Na 11
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 83
Magnesium, Mg 28
Total Hardness, CaCO3 324
Nitrate, NO3-N 2.8 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 9
Chloride, Cl 16
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 336
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 277
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01 "<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

 

[Tpost704]

I'm newer to brewing and the exact recipe is the one i'm doing next. When I read you saying your newer and already concerned w/ water chemistry, i was like. o.0 why? It doesn't seem necessary until waay later, unles it's an issue with your first 6? did you adjust your water for the others? you get off flavors from the water?

As RM-MN, mentioned mash pH is important, but as long as you got that down, idk why I would ever mess with it unless my tap water was like pool water. There's so many other things to focus on your first time round that it would be the last thing on my mind.

just my 2 cents from someone else going through what you are.

All my prior batches went well and tasted just fine. However, they were all extract batches with the exception of my last batch which was a partial mash. It's currently fermenting. I am fortunate that I have a lot of time to dedicate to home brewing, so I try and learn as much as I can prior to brew day. I know all grain is a different ball game so I want to try and truly understand what's happening in regards to water before brewing.

 

[Zzyzx3]

A lot of people say not to worry about water until later, but I feel like if it's something you want to work on then you should. Water can be fun to manipulate and I say go for it. Bru'n water can be a bit of a pain to learn how to use, but once you get the hang of it it can be a valuable tool. Maybe check out some YouTube videos that have Bru'n water tutorials.

For the centennial blonde, I would probably follow the yellow balanced profile on Bru'n water.

Good luck!

 

[azmark]

Try http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ If you decide to do a full vol no sparge, it makes it very easy. Starting water profile is all zero's, then just enter, your full volume, I choose 8, under mash. Enter your malts where requested. That should bring your mash PH down to about 5.6. Add 5g gypsum, 8g Cal clor, and 5g epsom salt, and your PH is down to 5.4 and all numbers at the bottom are in the green.

Edit to add, this assumes all RO water.

 

[chickypad]

People may say you can ignore water at first because it worked for them, but that is extremely alkaline water you have. That combined with the very pale beer you have planned will almost assuredly result in a high pH if you don't correct with acid. If you want to be worry free don't blindly use that water because other people get away with using theirs blindly. I would use RO water and the water primer that MaxStout linked in post #3.

 

[Tpost704]

I am most definitely going the RO water rout. I want to understand why I am doing something and what is affected during the process before I just start mixing grain and water together. If i'm investing all this time and money into brewing, I want to know i'm doing it to the best of my ability. I'm not one to throw things together and hope for the best. I feel RO water and MAxStout's link will give me a solid base, and as long as I hit the correct ph i feel like I can produce a decent first all grain batch.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I am most definitely going the RO water rout. I want to understand why I am doing something and what is affected during the process before I just start mixing grain and water together. If i'm investing all this time and money into brewing, I want to know i'm doing it to the best of my ability. I'm not one to throw things together and hope for the best. I feel RO water and MAxStout's link will give me a solid base, and as long as I hit the correct ph i feel like I can produce a decent first all grain batch.

I agree with you and I feel the same way. I did 4 batches of all grain after several extract which were good beers. My all grains were drinkable but not enjoyable. I started posting here to get help and right away was told to get my water tested. Here's my results. Makes yours look soft. Lol

pH 7.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 436
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.73
Cations / Anions, me/L / 8.8 8.8
ppm
Sodium, Na 7
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 91
Magnesium, Mg 46
Total Hardness, CaCO3 419
Nitrate, NO3-N 7.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 8
Chloride, Cl 11
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 456
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 375
Total Phosphorus, P 0.02
Total Iron, Fe .01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

After knowing what I had for well water, I knew I needed to make changes and that led me to reading all I could about water. I actually took a year off so I could learn and understand what I needed to do. Good for you on diving in. If I wouldn't have, I would have continued to brew beers I was not happy with or would have given this wonderful hobby up. I'm using Bru'n Water and after playing with it for a couple of months have a good grasp on it. I also bought a RO filter system to use. I just brewed two batches and I can tell by the samples these beers are much fuller and tastier then my previous all grain brews.

Keep moving forward and enjoy.

 

[norsk]

It's a small world, just did my first MIAB with this same recipe a few days ago, after close to 400 brews preformed in various batch sparge and other configurations. I always use RO and adjust accordingly depending on the beer... I used 4, 5 gal strainer bags as proof of concept, and was so impressed with the results that I finally got around to ordering a Brew Bag for my 70 gal cooler today. Cool company to deal with. Even added my discount retroactively to the order.... The Blonde is doing well, at 1.008 after 4 days with a OG of 1.050 . Came in higher than I expected due to increased efficiency. Watch your temps, have fun and good luck...

 

[beerbomb]

A full volume (no sparge) mash does simplify things, and the efficiency can be great if you have a mill and you can grind your grain very fine.

However if you don't have a mill, the crush you'll receive from your local or mail order supplier may not be fine enough to achieve your target OG. In that case a sparge will help you get there, or at least get closer.

If you like BIAB, investing in your own grain mill is highly recommended. I get great results with the Kegco mill, set to .025".

What do you use as a spacer to set the mill? Waiting for my mill to arrive. Do they give you spacers?

 

[deadwolfbones]

I would definitely skip the sparge if you can get your grains double crushed. I've been getting a double crush from Atlantic Brew Supply and getting 78% efficiency (right on target) every time. Before that, I ordered from MoreBeer and just put the grains in a ziploc freezer bag and pounded them with a rubber mallet to make sure they were fine enough. That worked too, my arm just hurt a little more.

 

[LittleRiver]

What do you use as a spacer to set the mill? ... Do they give you spacers?

I used a set of feeler gauges. You can get them at auto parts stores. I don't think any of the grain mills come with gauges.

 

[beerbomb]

OK, thanks, I wondered how you did that.

 

[bleme]

What do you use as a spacer to set the mill? Waiting for my mill to arrive. Do they give you spacers?

If you Brew-in-a-Bag, a lot of people just use a credit card to set the gap.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

If you Brew-in-a-Bag, a lot of people just use a credit card to set the gap.

I used a credit card when I did traditional all grain in a mash tun. The gap was around .035”. When I went to BIAB, I bought a set of feeler gauges and closed the gap down to .020”. My conversion efficiency is alway 99-100% using that crush.

 

[wilserbrewer]

While you can certainly use a credit card, or feeler gauges, and while perhaps not the best perfect method, one can simply tighten the mill until are the grains are nicely broken and no whole grains remain.

We are not setting valve clearances on a Ferrari here,

Careful examination of the grist is the best guide IMO.

If any doubt, overcrushing preferred to undercrushing imo...