FIB War Room

[BobCobb1]

This thursday?

Edit: Nevermind, it's wednesday and it's on the site. Will be stopping by.

Now it looks like site says Thu. They responded to someone on FB and said Wed. Does anyone know which day it actually is?

 

[tinypyramids1]

Now it looks like site says Thu. They responded to someone on FB and said Wed. Does anyone know which day it actually is?

I'm on my way, and should find out in like 30 minutes.

 

[ClCardinal84]

Now it looks like site says Thu. They responded to someone on FB and said Wed. Does anyone know which day it actually is?

Not that this is the end all be all, but there are zero check in's on Untappd for it today. Only Nitro SJ.

 

[user 306237]

Now it looks like site says Thu. They responded to someone on FB and said Wed. Does anyone know which day it actually is?

Regular SJ on nitro is today - Coffee SJ on Nitro is tomorrow. That's what I was just told.

This years SJ is the tits. Maybe a hair sweet but I think SJ has always been on the sweeter side.

 

[quinnsi]

they have managed to make the same beer taste exactly the same for... decades. of all the things that AB does to anger craft beer lovers the last of them should be their lack of quality control

... 90% of their shtick is familiarity. you know what you're getting when you grab that can/bottle.. the same exact beer you had 28 years ago, 13 years ago, 3 months ago. exactly. the. same. beer.

I see what you're getting at, and yes, their consistency is the best in the world. I would say this more in terms of them being able to get the beer to taste identical despite being brewed in Newark, NJ or St. Louis, MO etc. etc.

There is little doubt that there's been drift in the profile of Budweiser over there years. There's multiple sources of this (here being one of them: http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/budweiser-admits-flavor-drifted-over-the-years/)

But that isn't to say it was a mistake. They make the beer they want out there - which is more to the heart of what you were saying.

But one thing that AB was famous for was never compromising on their raw ingredient quality. That is no longer the case. This drift, if it were to happen, would be imperceptible from batch to batch, and possibly even year to year. But over time, the overall quality of the product would reflect the change in ingredients. This was most famously demonstrated by Schlitz, when the beer essentially collapsed due to years of cost cutting on process and ingredients and led directly the the bankruptcy and sale of what had once been the best selling beer in the world. Google "The Schlitz Mistake" for the history of that debacle.

So getting back to Goose. I have no doubt that the QC is there, and that the brewery is putting out the beer as they want it to be. But are you going to tell me that Goose IPA tastes like it did 5 years ago? That beer is a shadow of what it used to be. 312 too for that matter. Ironically, they can now use the medals that beer won in its heyday to sell the current product.

 

[mjohnson171]

Interesting anecdote to quinnsi 's comment; when talking with both the girl and guy doing the customer service for 1-800-GOOSE-ME they were adamant in making sure I understood it's not an infection with this year's BW or coffee, it's just that the beer flavor profile isn't where they want it to be for the beer. And they don't think it will ever get there, hence the refund. Does this mean ingredients were compromised? Is it a true infection? Who knows....

 

[RedCoffee]

Interesting anecdote to quinnsi 's comment; when talking with both the girl and guy doing the customer service for 1-800-GOOSE-ME they were adamant in making sure I understood it's not an infection with this year's BW or coffee, it's just that the beer flavor profile isn't where they want it to be for the beer. And they don't think it will ever get there, hence the refund. Does this mean ingredients were compromised? Is it a true infection? Who knows....

Did they make you sign a promise to never speak of this again, too?

"The problems with the beer are bad enough that we will refund you, but let's be clear that there are no actual problems with this beer. Understand, chief?"

 

[tinypyramids1]

Regular SJ on nitro is today - Coffee SJ on Nitro is tomorrow. That's what I was just told.

same here. wish they had their story straifht, but hey, nitro straight jacket...

 

[quinnsi]

If I had to guess I'd say they were using a different definition of infection than we are here. Maybe there's always a certain amount of bacteria in this beer, which is likely coming from a barrel-aged beer, and this year there's more than usual.

Is it gushing and tart? Then it's infected by the standard use of the term in beer circles. Just a guess of course.

I would guess it didn't have anything to do with a lack of QC. This stuff can happen.

Anyone wanna set the line on whether GI starts to pasteurize BCS in the future?

 

[sidetracked]

Did they make you sign a promise to never speak of this again, too?

"The problems with the beer are bad enough that we will refund you, but let's be clear that there are no actual problems with this beer. Understand, chief?"

All future BCBS bottles will have an arbitration agreement printed on the bottle.

 

[furley]

I see what you're getting at, and yes, their consistency is the best in the world. I would say this more in terms of them being able to get the beer to taste identical despite being brewed in Newark, NJ or St. Louis, MO etc. etc.

There is little doubt that there's been drift in the profile of Budweiser over there years. There's multiple sources of this (here being one of them: http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/budweiser-admits-flavor-drifted-over-the-years/)

But that isn't to say it was a mistake. They make the beer they want out there - which is more to the heart of what you were saying.

But one thing that AB was famous for was never compromising on their raw ingredient quality. That is no longer the case. This drift, if it were to happen, would be imperceptible from batch to batch, and possibly even year to year. But over time, the overall quality of the product would reflect the change in ingredients. This was most famously demonstrated by Schlitz, when the beer essentially collapsed due to years of cost cutting on process and ingredients and led directly the the bankruptcy and sale of what had once been the best selling beer in the world. Google "The Schlitz Mistake" for the history of that debacle.

So getting back to Goose. I have no doubt that the QC is there, and that the brewery is putting out the beer as they want it to be. But are you going to tell me that Goose IPA tastes like it did 5 years ago? That beer is a shadow of what it used to be. 312 too for that matter. Ironically, they can now use the medals that beer won in its heyday to sell the current product.

good post

i don't doubt that there have, and will be, slight changes in any and all products as bigger companies seek out cheaper alternatives to increase profits.. that's capitalism.

however people are suggesting a radical change in flavor profile from one year to the next after many, many years of no change. is it possible? sure. but in my opinion highly unlikely that AB would come in, recognize the tremendous marketing potential of Bourbon County, capitalize it and then destroy it in one year

hell, everything changes with time.. not going to argue that.. i just find it ridiculous, as many seem to suggest, that AB would come in and kill the golden goose purposefully in 1 year.

i've said it before.. there is/was a faction of Packers fans that believe(d) Ted Thompson was hired specifically to destroy the team and fold the franchise during the Favre/Rodgers transition. and i mean BELIEVED. change is scary.

 

[furley]

this is a pretty connected group. some of you surely know Goose employees that know things, has anyone asked?

 

[JackieAnton]

If I had to guess I'd say they were using a different definition of infection than we are here. Maybe there's always a certain amount of bacteria in this beer, which is likely coming from a barrel-aged beer, and this year there's more than usual.

Is it gushing and tart? Then it's infected by the standard use of the term in beer circles. Just a guess of course.

I would guess it didn't have anything to do with a lack of QC. This stuff can happen.

Anyone wanna set the line on whether GI starts to pasteurize BCS in the future?

Not sure when but I know how they'll start. Bourbon County Brand Milk Stout. They'll make special bottles that look like milk cartons with PASTEURIZED emblazoned right on the front. The pasteurization is what makes it authentic!

 

[quinnsi]

Not sure when but I know how they'll start. Bourbon County Brand Milk Stout. They'll make special bottles that look like milk cartons with PASTEURIZED emblazoned right on the front. The pasteurization is what makes it authentic!

Hah! Brilliant.

 

[quinnsi]

good post

i don't doubt that there have, and will be, slight changes in any and all products as bigger companies seek out cheaper alternatives to increase profits.. that's capitalism.

however people are suggesting a radical change in flavor profile from one year to the next after many, many years of no change. is it possible? sure. but in my opinion highly unlikely that AB would come in, recognize the tremendous marketing potential of Bourbon County, capitalize it and then destroy it in one year

hell, everything changes with time.. not going to argue that.. i just find it ridiculous, as many seem to suggest, that AB would come in and kill the golden goose purposefully in 1 year.

i've said it before.. there is/was a faction of Packers fans that believe(d) Ted Thompson was hired specifically to destroy the team and fold the franchise during the Favre/Rodgers transition. and i mean BELIEVED. change is scary.

Oh, totally agree there. Anyone who thinks AB want to hurt the sales of their flagship craft brand's flagship beer is naive.

I think a scenario like this is more plausible (though 100% hypothetical)

Some big wig at AbInBev sees that craft is their fastest growing segment, then notices that BCS is their most profitable brand ounce for ounce, and has a depletion rate (how fast they move through stock) that's insane. He/she decides that they want to move it to year round sales in several key markets - at least for the regular BCS. Despite what anyone at Goose, or at AB's craft team says, they want this to happen. Goose then says "we can't source enough bourbon barrels from XXXX to make this happen". They are told use a portion of different barrels. Goose says "OK" and everything is fine.

Next year, they want to push the brand to be year round nationwide. In every chain store, blah blah. Goose says, "there aren't enough barrels PERIOD to do that". ABInBev tells them to find a way. So, Goose figures they can add in some additional toasted staves to the interior of the barrel so that the beer has more surface contact with the wood and thus they can knock off 2 months of aging time, take a quarter of the best barrels and reuse them a second time, with new staves added to the insides, then blend that back into the other 3/4 of the beer. Next year, it's a third of the barrels that get used twice. Then half. A few years later, they decide they can add tiny amounts of vanilla and coconut extract to approximate some barrel character, and reduce the aging time by another month or two.

While there was never any change outside what could be considered normal year over year variation in BCS, after 5 years you've got something that has little resemblance to the original.

I'm not saying that BCS will change. I'm just saying that if it did change, I would expect it to be gradual.

 

[Hopping Tiger]

That will make Bourbon County even more like bourbon.

 

[duckyboycantfly]

Tbh I'm on the side of more oxidation issues or new bottle format problems than actual infection. I can only assume Goose could afford PCR which should tell them lacto/pedio infections within 3 hours. Brett should not be apparent this close to bottling, so that leaves only the mind to wander what the source of off flavors are.

 

[mjohnson171]

Tbh I'm on the side of more oxidation issues or new bottle format problems than actual infection. I can only assume Goose could afford PCR which should tell them lacto/pedio infections within 3 hours. Brett should not be apparent this close to bottling, so that leaves only the mind to wander what the source of off flavors are.

This is interesting. When I inquired about how widespread they think the problem is they said that no issues have been found with any kegs, only bottles.

 

[danbanana]

This is interesting. When I inquired about how widespread they think the problem is they said that no issues have been found with any kegs, only bottles.

I knew those bottles were a bad idea!

 

[Mugatu]

I think the craft community in general has a little too much of "the sky is falling" attitude. When I was working more directly in the industry, these types of acquisitions were considered to be career making / breaking risks at the HIGHEST level of these companies.. very few were willing to stake their career on it. In fact, I was really surprised to see Constellation go through with any acquisition. These macro brewing companies are scared out of their mind that any acquired "craft brewery" will go belly up because of the perception of new ownership. Therefore, I don't think after they've successfully taken that brand national, they'd be so quick to turn around and mess with the most profitable / highest depletion rate products.

Most industries there is a strong sense of certainty that an acquisition will not completely change the sales of the acquired company.. but this is not the case with consumer products. Major players, whether it be KraftHeinz, Johnson & Johnson, Diageo or ABInbev, spend endless hours discussing the effects of their ownership on new craft brands. Yea.. they get some economies of scale and yea... they get historically high growth products but whose to say that consumers still pick up your product once consumers realize that indie/unique/rebellious/artisanal qualities that made the small company good have now gone corporate? I think there are a ton of articles about the Diageo acquisition of Bulleit that discuss this exact concern.

IF we do see a change it will likely be in products extensions like a year round Bourbon County Base Stout or Stout variants (non barrel-aged)... I'd be surprised to see them mess with the formula too much on their cash cow BCBS.

TL; DR: Acquiring Goose was already a huge risk on ABI's side, I doubt after taking that huge risk they'd turn around and make another huge risk of tampering with BCBS.

 

[middlebrow]

Tbh I'm on the side of more oxidation issues or new bottle format problems than actual infection. I can only assume Goose could afford PCR which should tell them lacto/pedio infections within 3 hours. Brett should not be apparent this close to bottling, so that leaves only the mind to wander what the source of off flavors are.

You'd think that but nope. They sensory/olfactory the thousands of barrels instead of testing each one and then PCR the final giant blend. One lil rod was probably sleeping in one corner of the tank before it started multiplying like bebe's kids.

quinnsi your future BCS stave methodology for quicker turnaround sounds like another giant brewery that uses boiled beechwood to perform a trick on their lagers to get a faster turn around on bottom fermenting yeast.

 

[SAISON FUCK]

I am not in any sort of way to quote, but given that the regular BCBS is by far the best version based on nerd reviews everywhere, I am not buying any conspiracy. They ****** up with their best brand (BCBCS) and will get it fixed.

I am also not an ABInBev apologist. I haven't bought a BCBS bottle in the last couple years due to general apathy. Just not buying any sort of self-sabotage.

 

[vav1]

If I had to guess I'd say they were using a different definition of infection than we are here. Maybe there's always a certain amount of bacteria in this beer, which is likely coming from a barrel-aged beer, and this year there's more than usual.

Is it gushing and tart? Then it's infected by the standard use of the term in beer circles. Just a guess of course.

I would guess it didn't have anything to do with a lack of QC. This stuff can happen.

Anyone wanna set the line on whether GI starts to pasteurize BCS in the future?

Ehhhhhhh....I'm pretty on board with most what you've said BCS related this past year, but this is a stretch. Infected means infected. Plenty more consumers misuse this term than breweries, and that's not something one wants to be cagey with their language about. And we should go out of our way to explain that. See: "I'd like to return this six pack of canned beer. It tastes skunky."

I tend to err on the side of caution with this, and I'd guess it's an oxygen thing too. Although I have not tasted it, so if anyone wants to mail me some for science lmk.

 

[quinnsi]

Ehhhhhhh....I'm pretty on board with most what you've said BCS related this past year, but this is a stretch. Infected means infected. Plenty more consumers misuse this term than breweries, and that's not something one wants to be cagey with their language about. And we should go out of our way to explain that. See: "I'd like to return this six pack of canned beer. It tastes skunky."

I tend to err on the side of caution with this, and I'd guess it's an oxygen thing too. Although I have not tasted it, so if anyone wants to mail me some for science lmk.

But how could oxidation make a beer gush/sour?

 

[MarcatGSB1]

good post

i don't doubt that there have, and will be, slight changes in any and all products as bigger companies seek out cheaper alternatives to increase profits.. that's capitalism.

however people are suggesting a radical change in flavor profile from one year to the next after many, many years of no change. is it possible? sure. but in my opinion highly unlikely that AB would come in, recognize the tremendous marketing potential of Bourbon County, capitalize it and then destroy it in one year

hell, everything changes with time.. not going to argue that.. i just find it ridiculous, as many seem to suggest, that AB would come in and kill the golden goose purposefully in 1 year.

i've said it before.. there is/was a faction of Packers fans that believe(d) Ted Thompson was hired specifically to destroy the team and fold the franchise during the Favre/Rodgers transition. and i mean BELIEVED. change is scary.

Of course that ******* happened, what are you a Bears fan?

 

[capnmike]

quinnsi your future BCS stave methodology for quicker turnaround sounds like another giant brewery that uses boiled beechwood to perform a trick on their lagers to get a faster turn around on bottom fermenting yeast.

Sounds hard...

 

[lb304854]

this is a pretty connected group. some of you surely know Goose employees that know things, has anyone asked?

When I first mentioned the infection reports to my friend, he simply said "I doubt it." I don't think they gave it much thought until reports came flooding in.

I do like how people are blaming InBev as if they are micromanaging Fulton & Wood. They bought Goose in 2011 and this is at least the 4th year Bourbon County has been released on their watch. Beer nerds just need some narrative that "InBev takes over GI, ruins BCS." And I hate that Coffee and Barleywine bottles are infected as much as anyone.

If you want to really look for scapegoats, look at who is running the Fulton & Wood facility. Hint: They have been at GI longer than the InBev acquisition and chase off most brewers within 2 years.

 

[abawol01]

If you want to really look for scapegoats, look at who is running the Fulton & Wood facility. Hint: They have been at GI longer than the InBev acquisition and chase off most brewers within 2 years.

It's powz87 isn't it? I KNEW IT ALL ALONG! Jerking it into the barrels I assume.

 

[RedCoffee]

It's powz87 isn't it? I KNEW IT ALL ALONG! Jerking it into the barrels I assume.

He worked for a MUCH more prestigious brewery than Goose, man. Come on!

 

[furley]

See: "I'd like to return this six pack of canned beer. It tastes skunky. has a mouse in it"