Fermentis LA-01 recipe approach ?

[rudylyon57]

Fellow Brewers-I've managed to get a block of Fermentis LA-01 yeast for brewing low alcohol beer. In a nutshell, this yeast only attenuates about 20% by conversion of simple sugars (Glucose) only. Fermentis recommends a 7P (1028) wort to achieve 0.5% ABV. So, my question is bitterness adjustment. Do I try to maintain a style defined OG/IBU ratio as a full strength recipe-since sugars and malt character be present-or take another approach?

 

[bkboiler]

What style are you planning to brew? It's often a little bit more complicated than the ratios

 

[rudylyon57]

Since the yeast is slightly POF positive I'm looking at a Witbier. I want the style to compliment our customer base that would be drawn to LA beer.

 

[bkboiler]

I had to Google what POF positive means.
Any session beer is going to be easier to merge with this style than otherwise...
BUT! there are lots of styles that tolerate fruitiness and spiciness well! Surprisingly, in my opinion, saisons and wheatbeer are actually not on that list. I've had WAY overdone or underdone saisons and wheatbeer. I think it's harder to balance any yeast character since the malt bill and hop character are relatively light.
That being said...the banana or clove isn't always super pronounced and doesn't come through the same in every wort.
I'd do a few experiments before committing an entire batch...
1. 1 gallon batch all wheat LME, 5 IBU, ferment 75-80F (witbeer)
2. 1 gallon batch 66% wheat 34% light malt extract, 2 IBU, copitch good belly down to 3.5pH, ferment 75-90F
3. 1 gallon batch, light malt extract, steep crystal 60 and chocolate malt to 20 SRM, English hops to 13 IBU (Orfy's mild HBT). If it tastes fruity, will complement this style I think.
4. 1 gallon batch, light malt extract, steep special B, crystal 70, wheat, chocolate malt and add honey during boil. 15 IBU, centennial, add vanilla, cinnamon, bitter orange peel and ginger.
(Holly ale recipe from HBT). Figured if you get clove then this recipe will taste good!
5. brew a stout with cocoa powder. If u get banana character, then call it a banana split.

Most of these styles I listed are ones I've brewed where I totally botched the ferment, it came out way fruitier than it should have, and I kinda liked it!

 

[rudylyon57]

I had to Google what POF positive means.
Any session beer is going to be easier to merge with this style than otherwise...
BUT! there are lots of styles that tolerate fruitiness and spiciness well! Surprisingly, in my opinion, saisons and wheatbeer are actually not on that list. I've had WAY overdone or underdone saisons and wheatbeer. I think it's harder to balance any yeast character since the malt bill and hop character are relatively light.
That being said...the banana or clove isn't always super pronounced and doesn't come through the same in every wort.
I'd do a few experiments before committing an entire batch...
1. 1 gallon batch all wheat LME, 5 IBU, ferment 75-80F (witbeer)
2. 1 gallon batch 66% wheat 34% light malt extract, 2 IBU, copitch good belly down to 3.5pH, ferment 75-90F
3. 1 gallon batch, light malt extract, steep crystal 60 and chocolate malt to 20 SRM, English hops to 13 IBU (Orfy's mild HBT). If it tastes fruity, will complement this style I think.
4. 1 gallon batch, light malt extract, steep special B, crystal 70, wheat, chocolate malt and add honey during boil. 15 IBU, centennial, add vanilla, cinnamon, bitter orange peel and ginger.
(Holly ale recipe from HBT). Figured if you get clove then this recipe will taste good!
5. brew a stout with cocoa powder. If u get banana character, then call it a banana split.

Most of these styles I listed are ones I've brewed where I totally botched the ferment, it came out way fruitier than it should have, and I kinda liked it!

I really like the idea of using DME/LME for the test brews. It'll be much easier than all grain to make small batches with less risk.

 

[Eltes]

Keep in mind that Fermentis hasn't made LA01 available to home brewers because it requires pasteurization to avoid an infection of basically any other yeast fermenting the high amount of remaining sugars and creating bottle (keg?) bombs on a whole new scale.

 

[bkboiler]

Keep in mind that Fermentis hasn't made LA01 available to home brewers because it requires pasteurization to avoid an infection of basically any other yeast fermenting the high amount of remaining sugars and creating bottle (keg?) bombs on a whole new scale.

I think it probably has more to do with demand for NA beers by homebrewers.

 

[Eltes]

I think it probably has more to do with demand for NA beers by homebrewers.

I think demand is actually quite high, but anyway my post is based on first hand info from Fermentis.

 

[DuncB]

Would love to get hold of some to give it a try.

 

[bkboiler]

I think demand is actually quite high, but anyway my post is based on first hand info from Fermentis.

Fermentis lists on their datasheet that pasteurization is required.
It DOES NOT state that fermentis has not made it available to homebrewers BECAUSE pasteurization is required.
I would be more than comfortable using this product even without pasteurizing since I control the product and refrigerator temperature and can chill it after the ferment is done. And my kegs have pressure relief valves as required by the ASME pressure vessel code.
I would be able to pasteurize if I needed to quite easily, probably more easily than a craft brewery that would need to buy a new piece of equipment.
Several craft breweries making NEIPAs, fruit beers and pastry products encountered legal issues recently when they put a warning on the label saying "keep refrigerated" that retailers didn't read...leading to can-bombs.
Even if I did bottle (which occasionally I do), I could simply stabilize the product, force carb and bottle it afterwards. The reason a lot of craft breweries do not do this is the sulfites need to be disclosed, which narrows their target market since a lot of consumers are put off by artificial additives (or are allergic).

 

[Eltes]

Fermentis lists on their datasheet that pasteurization is required.
It DOES NOT state that fermentis has not made it available to homebrewers BECAUSE pasteurization is required.
I would be more than comfortable using this product even without pasteurizing since I control the product and refrigerator temperature and can chill it after the ferment is done. And my kegs have pressure relief valves as required by the ASME pressure vessel code.
I would be able to pasteurize if I needed to quite easily, probably more easily than a craft brewery that would need to buy a new piece of equipment.
Several craft breweries making NEIPAs, fruit beers and pastry products encountered legal issues recently when they put a warning on the label saying "keep refrigerated" that retailers didn't read...leading to can-bombs.
Even if I did bottle (which occasionally I do), I could simply stabilize the product, force carb and bottle it afterwards. The reason a lot of craft breweries do not do this is the sulfites need to be disclosed, which narrows their target market since a lot of consumers are put off by artificial additives (or are allergic).

My information comes from a Fermentis webinar, but I didn't mean to start a discussion in why it's not available, there are most likely several factors. I just wanted to mention the pasteurization requirement/recommendation in case you were not aware of it and the associated risks. Just trying to help avoid exploding bottles or ruined beer

 

[bkboiler]

My information comes from a Fermentis webinar, but I didn't mean to start a discussion in why it's not available, there are most likely several factors. I just wanted to mention the pasteurization requirement/recommendation in case you were not aware of it and the associated risks. Just trying to help avoid exploding bottles or ruined beer

Good point, definitely important for safety!

 

[DuncB]

If I can get the " yeast " might go the champagne bottle route for extra safety. Although should be okay with keg and cool, it's low alcohol so you can drink it faster!

 

[bkboiler]

Yeah...to me it screams "tafelbier" or there's a lot of old school recipes when beer was drank in replacement of water that are 1-2% ABV...
Common in monasteries still to keep the monks hydrated (and mentally alert) while brewing or working to have low ABV beverages.
I'd be interested in it for that!
I think from that perspective I'd do some more research on the historical techniques before using this...

 

[DuncB]

The trick is to get the alcohol effect and body in a low alcohol beer. Less sugar would just be dry and thin if all brewed out to a low abv. Yet some of those low or non alcoholic beers are just all sweet malt body and no depth.
Probably the holy grail for commercials these days.
I think those weak " boys " beers as they are sometimes known are also drunk young, perhaps to beat that spoilage aspect.

 

[rudylyon57]

Thanks for the conversation about pasteurizing and lack of 11g sachets. I'm aware of the pasteurizing requirement. At home I'll serve from a keezer so beer will always be cold. Same at our brewpub where we'll never package the beer-it will always be cold. But, my post was questioning an approach to hopping for recipe development. My plan right now is to stay within style IBU/OG range even though going from 12-15P to 7P wort-thoughts?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Would love to get hold of some to give it a try.

Did you (or anybody else watching this thread) see this post? Fermentis Safbrew LA-01 Recipe Testing - Low Alcohol