Fermentation Issues - Not sure what else to change?

[hopsauce]

Hi,

I've been brewing for a few years and I've been trying to step up my knowledge and the quality of brews. I've had a couple of repeat fails brewing IPAs.

I've brewed some reasonable other beers but my last 2x IPAs have had fermentation issues (as confirmed by a BJCP judge and my average palate). They have a 'wort' like flavour and taste too sweet - The issue is, I don't know what to improve?

The parts that I think are key to my process are:
- 5G BIAB Mash in a keggle, last one was 1.066 OG.
- Add Whitelabs yeast nutrient with 10 mins remaining
- Aerate with O2
- Pitch US05 (14g packet from home brew shop - not 11.5g)
- Temp control using brewpi in fridge, ferment in glass carboy.
- 19 degrees C (66F) ramping to 22 C (72F) after 4 or 5 days. Leave for 2 1/2 weeks
- Cold crash to 1 C (34F).
- Auto siphon transfer to keg (after displacing starsan)
- FG on the last one was 1.013 I believe (need to confirm).

Both recipes had no crystal.

The issue I have is, i'm not clear what I can improve in my process - Any thoughts?

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Please let me know if you need more info.

 

[RM-MN]

Hi,

I've been brewing for a few years and I've been trying to step up my knowledge and the quality of brews. I've had a couple of repeat fails brewing IPAs.

I've brewed some reasonable other beers but my last 2x IPAs have had fermentation issues (as confirmed by a BJCP judge and my average palate). They have a 'wort' like flavour and taste too sweet - The issue is, I don't know what to improve?

The parts that I think are key to my process are:
- 5G BIAB Mash in a keggle, last one was 1.066 OG.
- Add Whitelabs yeast nutrient with 10 mins remaining
- Aerate with O2
- Pitch US05 (14g packet from home brew shop - not 11.5g)
- Temp control using brewpi in fridge, ferment in glass carboy.
- 19 degrees C (66F) ramping to 22 C (72F) after 4 or 5 days. Leave for 2 1/2 weeks
- Cold crash to 1 C (34F).
- Auto siphon transfer to keg (after displacing starsan)
- FG on the last one was 1.013 I believe (need to confirm).

Both recipes had no crystal.

The issue I have is, i'm not clear what I can improve in my process - Any thoughts?

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Please let me know if you need more info.

What did the recipes have? Give the full recipe. Also include the mash details as in the mash temp and whether there was a sparge or just full volume.

 

[McKnuckle]

They have a 'wort' like flavour and taste too sweet

Oxidation? That's what this comment says to me. Of course it could be totally off base but I submit it for your consideration.

 

[radwizard]

Whats was your mash Temp?

 

[hopsauce]

Full water and recipe information is as below (Gladiator is a carapils equivalent). Water profile is from local water report.

Mash temp was 152F and I add campden to the water (1/2 tablet) - Full volume mash (BIAB with no sparge).

McKnuckle, it could be oxidation because I believe the last IPA went that way (heavy oxidised flavour after a couple of months). This beer is only a couple of weeks old. It is into the same keg (that I haven't used before). I assume the oxidation was from my poor transfer technique so I improved that for this brew. Anything that I should check out on this line of thought?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

my last 2x IPAs have had fermentation issues (as confirmed by a BJCP judge and my average palate). They have a 'wort' like flavour and taste too sweet ...1.066 OG....19 degrees C (66F) ramping to 22 C (72F) after 4 or 5 days....FG on the last one was 1.013 I believe (need to confirm).

Fermentation is a bit on the warm side, could contribute off-flavours. Try something more like starting at 16C, rising to 19C.

1.066 is getting into the kind of territory where yeast tend to struggle a bit without assistance - I'd be tempted to just knock the OG down a bit whilst you're trying to fix this - or start being nicer to your yeast - either pitching another packet or using a starter.

If it's tasting too sweet then you really need to have confidence in that FG, "too sweet" sounds like it's rather higher than 1.013. Are you measuring with a hydrometer or a refractometer, are you making the appropriate corrections for temperature etc?

 

[McKnuckle]

There's nothing wrong with 66-72 over 5 days for US-05. That's a very normal range for that yeast. The attenuation from 66 to 13 is a full 80%. Also, very typical for US-05 and respectable, plus this is exactly where I'd want my FG with an IPA. Water looks fine too. Nothing jumps out as being weird or extreme.

When someone says that beer tastes like wort, I really hear "oxidation," because I have experienced that before. It's a cardboard, flabby, bleh sort of taste.

 

[hopsauce]

Hi Northern Brewer,

Thanks for your feedback.

I'll confirm the FG again and check with my hydrometer and refractometer and do some checks on each.

I'm not sure that I agree on the temp comments, however your OGs comments make sense. I'm starting to question the quality of the repackaged homebrew shop yeast.

McKnuckle, i'll recheck my FG because i'm not 100% sure on that. It could be oxidation but I was very careful with transfer, pushing starsan out of keg, before carefully transferring (and purging multiple times). I purged with CO2 during dry hopping also.

The only thing is the keg (given the last beer was oxidised I believed), I need to confirm that it's holding pressure (but I believe it is).

 

[balrog]

I've not experienced cardboard oxidation flavors but have experienced sherry flavors from oxidation (sweet) and maybe the "wort taste" sweetness you mention. Food for thought.
"The Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) describes oxidized beer as demonstrating “Any one or a combination of stale, winy/vinous, cardboard, papery, or sherry-like aromas and flavors.” I would venture to say that most of us have no desire to taste cardboard or paper, unless we are goats."

 

[McKnuckle]

^That's right, it can also be a stale sweetness, like sherry, with or without the precise flavor of sherry itself. I had that happen in a big, bitter old ale that I really thought I had handled well. I guess I took one too many wine thief samples as it sat in a carboy over time. After kegging, it lost ground very rapidly and I ended up dumping it.

 

[hopsauce]

The last IPA I dry hopped in the keg and didn't purge with the hops in place. That beer tasted syrupy/sherry after say 2 months - I need to try some sherry again to tune my palette. It was much drier when new.

I believe this is different but could be wrong, the beer is only ~2 weeks old - It does have a unfermented/sweet flavour and is unbalanced - I really need to check my FG again and report back.

If it is oxidation i'm running out of things to change because I did what I currently think of as best practice with this beer - The only improvement I can think of is closed loop transfer but that's a bit tricky with a glass carboy....