Fellowship of the Drink XII: The Bad News Beers

[afro_lou]

Dang! Those were pretty consistent then! Even sugars all throughout. They must add all the fruit (extracts, I assume) post-primary fermentation, maybe even post-carb’ing? Adding under pressure even, maybe?

 

[orionol73]

And for reference, here is what ASB had to say about their exploding cans.
Thanks for reaching out.

The problem is very simple: there's a TON (literally, over a metric ton in this batch) of fruit that went into this batch and if cans are not stored cold, they will referment in the can and cause the situation you are experiencing. There are no bugs, we can assure you of that. After Prickly Pear was released, we put on subsequent kettle sour cans, clear as daylight "Warning: Contains Lots of Fruit! Must Be Kept Cold At All Times" (refer to Tayberry cans, which I see are also stored in your garage).

Fine to replace your cans, send me an address and we'll mail you a 4-pack.

But I will say, I'm a bit concerned about seeing other fruited sours in your garage, and you even have some Slice Joint being stored warm as well. These beers are designed for relatively quick consumption (within a month) so that they can be enjoyed at peak freshness. They deserve to be stored cold, as well. Aroma / Flavor / Overall Quality will degrade at warm temperatures, especially when stored out for several months. The YoE beers are fine to cellar, and will actually improve with age and gain complexity over time. But not Alvarado Street beers. This is why we come out with new cans each week, so they are consumed fresh.

Hit us back with an address, and thanks for understanding where we're coming from.

It never dawned on me that they didn't fully ferment out their fruit, and therefore any can deformities will likely result in explosions due to the continued fermenting.

This makes sense though (re: fermenting fruit) because their kettle sours are very much fruit forward brews, and now I know. I wonder, then, how they manage to get certain levels of carbonation? I assume they're not canning while fermenting on the fruit, but their response leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe they maintain an extremely low temperature while adding in the fruit and force carb in the cans? That would prevent the fruit from fermenting, but pull in all the flavors?

I've wondered about you storing beer in the garage! Doesn't it get hot AF in there being in Cali? (No idea where you really are )

 

[CTownBrewer]

That’s disappointing. Most breweries making non-oak aged sours usually add in fruit to the stainless tank during or after primary fermentation slows. Some even recirc through a hop back to speed up the extraction process. Seems like a QC procedural issue to me. I would think you’d package after consistent gravity readings & then force ferment a sample section of cans by raising the temp/agitating to ensure they wouldn’t have any explosion issues before releasing it to the public.

To say that their beers are supposed to be consumed fresh as reasoning for cans exploding is a cop out to me. Hopefully, this alerts them to the potential issue & they make an adjustment to their process. Their supply can’t keep up with the demand, so maybe this is a result of trying to cut corners to get more product out.

Having said that, my wallet will continue to be crushed with all those amazing hazy IPAs they are making!

 

[TwistedGray]

I've wondered about you storing beer in the garage! Doesn't it get hot AF in there being in Cali? (No idea where you really are )

Nah, not really.

The garage probably stays in the 50°s with a few exceptions of 60-65° max.

 

[TwistedGray]

Me
It never occured to me that the fruit had not been completely fermented out. Good to know, and now I'll move all the cans into the beer fridge to avoid any future woes. It hadn't happened over the last 3ish years, so it honestly didn't even cross my mind as an issue.

Them
Cool, thanks for understanding. Fine to come in today and pickup some Haole, that will save time and money!

The reason for refermentation lately with fruit is that our fruiting rates have significantly increased over the past 6 months. We're desiring more fruit character and just added ungodly amounts. We wait to package until gravities are stable, but generally over time, if left out warm, there can be additional fermentation.

I'll make sure the bartenders know your coming by for Haole

 

[TBC]

I know where @TBC has FedEx hide his beer deliveries.

I have Fed Ex trained well. Now if I only can get UPS trained up.

 

[TBC]

Package received from @jimyson Thanks for everything can’t wait to try everything. They are loaded into the fridge. I will wear the shirt proudly! The coffee smells awesome.

 

[jimyson]

I’m running low on Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Dumerso. Down to 8 lbs or so. It’s getting around the group though!

 

[pshankstar]

I’m running low on Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Dumerso. Down to 8 lbs or so. It’s getting around the group though!

Yeah it is and it’s good stuff! How much did you buy? The most of any bean I’ve bought was 5 lbs and that was in my last order. I did two 5lbs and two 2lbs of different beans and thought this will last me a hell of a long time.

 

[jimyson]

Yeah it is and it’s good stuff! How much did you buy? The most of any bean I’ve bought was 5 lbs and that was in my last order. I did two 5lbs and two 2lbs of different beans and thought this will last me a hell of a long time.

30 of this one. [emoji3]

 

[pshankstar]

30 of this one. [emoji3]

Dang!!!! But it was freaking tasty as hell!!

 

[jimyson]

So my offer finally got received today. I’m ready for the next round! [emoji23]

 

[TwistedGray]

Who is on the hook for running the next one?

 

[RevKev]

And for reference, here is what ASB had to say about their exploding cans.
Thanks for reaching out.

The problem is very simple: there's a TON (literally, over a metric ton in this batch) of fruit that went into this batch and if cans are not stored cold, they will referment in the can and cause the situation you are experiencing. There are no bugs, we can assure you of that. After Prickly Pear was released, we put on subsequent kettle sour cans, clear as daylight "Warning: Contains Lots of Fruit! Must Be Kept Cold At All Times" (refer to Tayberry cans, which I see are also stored in your garage).

Fine to replace your cans, send me an address and we'll mail you a 4-pack.

But I will say, I'm a bit concerned about seeing other fruited sours in your garage, and you even have some Slice Joint being stored warm as well. These beers are designed for relatively quick consumption (within a month) so that they can be enjoyed at peak freshness. They deserve to be stored cold, as well. Aroma / Flavor / Overall Quality will degrade at warm temperatures, especially when stored out for several months. The YoE beers are fine to cellar, and will actually improve with age and gain complexity over time. But not Alvarado Street beers. This is why we come out with new cans each week, so they are consumed fresh.

Hit us back with an address, and thanks for understanding where we're coming from.

It never dawned on me that they didn't fully ferment out their fruit, and therefore any can deformities will likely result in explosions due to the continued fermenting.

This makes sense though (re: fermenting fruit) because their kettle sours are very much fruit forward brews, and now I know. I wonder, then, how they manage to get certain levels of carbonation? I assume they're not canning while fermenting on the fruit, but their response leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe they maintain an extremely low temperature while adding in the fruit and force carb in the cans? That would prevent the fruit from fermenting, but pull in all the flavors?

That makes sense, unless they kill the yeasties post ferm chemically. I've heard lots of issues like that with the veil and the answer

 

[TwistedGray]

That makes sense, unless they kill the yeasties post ferm chemically. I've heard lots of issues like that with the veil and the answer

It honestly never crossed my mine, once. I've never had anything else explode before, so this was a bit of a shocker. They've also ONLY just started adding the warning labels after this can release which makes me question whether or not they made a mistake. None of their other sours have exhibited the same issues, and I've been sitting on those ones just as long. Hell, I had been sitting on an really old Tayberry without any problem.

I think they just fudged up...

 

[baldm79]

Who is on the hook for running the next one?

That would be Jekeane..

 

[jimyson]

That would be Jekeane..

I feel like I recall @jekeane was wrapped up in running something else and that may impact the next round, which is perfectly five, I’m just opening that can of worms again.

 

[baldm79]

I feel like I recall @jekeane was wrapped up in running something else and that may impact the next round, which is perfectly five, I’m just opening that can of worms again.

Yea. I’m in no rush, July doesn’t work for me so waiting is good!

 

[TwistedGray]

Offer is in

 

[jimyson]

Offer is in

Prickly pear?

 

[TwistedGray]

Prickly pear?

Obviously.

 

[jimyson]

Obviously.

Can’t wait. On a side note, did Doug change your account number?

 

[TwistedGray]

Can’t wait. On a side note, did Doug change your account number?

It wasn't my personal account; they set up another, so you can keep using that other one.

 

[marckw]

I feel like I recall @jekeane was wrapped up in running something else and that may impact the next round, which is perfectly five, I’m just opening that can of worms again.

Competition coordinating is no easy task, my hat's off to him.

 

[jimyson]

Competition coordinating is no easy task, my hat's off to him.

Just looked back. Coordinating a 650 entry competition!! Wow. Looks like we are likely looking at an August round.

 

[RevKev]

I think I'm up... I'll take RevKev.

So you know I'll be shipping on Monday.. Sorry for the delay due to the trip my friend [emoji482]

 

[Redtab78]

Side Trade #1 complete!! Thanks @LoneTreeFarms !!


Honestly, i dont know whats better...trading beers across the country or trading baseball cards when i was a kid

 

[wstbrewing]

So you know I'll be shipping on Monday.. Sorry for the delay due to the trip my friend [emoji482]

No rush. Beer can always wait for an enjoyable trip.

As a note to self: I gotta get my side trade out to redtab on Monday.

 

[fourfarthing]

Side Trade #1 complete!! Thanks @LoneTreeFarms !!


Honestly, i dont know whats better...trading beers across the country or trading baseball cards when i was a kid

Beers. Better value too.

 

[fourfarthing]

Side trade in and got me some @jimyson coffee