Fellow cider makers, how much yeast is too much

[_bygolly]

So I went ahead and attempted my first batch of hard cider tonight, and realized I made a very stupid mistake using a tablespoon of yeast instead of a teaspoon. I only made one gallon. Not only that but when I mixed the yeast with water I think I may have heated it up too much. I didn't boil it but it got pretty heated. Do I have just a bunch of dead yeast that won't do anything?
I used Nottingham ale yeast and the package said 1 gallon, but the recipe I followed only said to use one teaspoon which would've been less that what was in there. I put about 2.5 cups of sugar in there. The recipe also called for champagne yeast but I wanted a sweeter outcome so I got the Nottingham.
Please help I'm new to this, also doesn't help that I'm running off very little sleep!

 

[Yooper]

So I went ahead and attempted my first batch of hard cider tonight, and realized I made a very stupid mistake using a tablespoon of yeast instead of a teaspoon. I only made one gallon. Not only that but when I mixed the yeast with water I think I may have heated it up too much. I didn't boil it but it got pretty heated. Do I have just a bunch of dead yeast that won't do anything?
I used Nottingham ale yeast and the package said 1 gallon, but the recipe I followed only said to use one teaspoon which would've been less that what was in there. I put about 2.5 cups of sugar in there. The recipe also called for champagne yeast but I wanted a sweeter outcome so I got the Nottingham.
Please help I'm new to this, also doesn't help that I'm running off very little sleep!

That's fine, although 11 grams of yeast is more than you needed. The excess yeast won't be an issue, as it will just fall to the bottom in the end. If you pitched the yeast too hot, then you may have killed it, though. Next time, don't heat the yeast or the water you rehydrate it in, and just sprinkle it on the cider.

 

[Maylar]

You want to avoid thermal shocking the yeast. You can put cold yeast into cold juice without rehydrating, it just takes longer to get started. Or rehydrate at 30-35*C then cool it a bit and put it into room temp juice. Nottingham says not to exceed 10*C temperature steps.

The 11 gram packet is for 5 gallons. I measured out 1/5th of that and it was just about a teaspoon.

 

[bernardsmith]

Given the relative low price of dried yeast, the risks associated with poor storage and the inconsequential results of adding "too much" yeast, I simply open and use the entire package of yeast whether I am making one gallon or five. That way I know that whatever I have spent on fruit or pressed juices the yeast will be the one thing that I have nothing to worry about.

 

[_bygolly]

Gotcha, it'll mostly get left behind when I siphon it anyway right? The guy at the home brew store said if nothing bubbles in the next 3 days, just add another teaspoon of yeast I haven't killed

 

[bernardsmith]

Gotcha, it'll mostly get left behind when I siphon it anyway right? The guy at the home brew store said if nothing bubbles in the next 3 days, just add another teaspoon of yeast I haven't killed

Not sure I would agree with the experts at your LHBS. If the yeast is inactive there is something going on and adding more yeast to the problem will not necessarily solve the problem. You might want to check to see if you can identify the reason for the yeast being torpid.
Perhaps -
1. There was preservatives like sorbate in the juice?
2. The acidity of the must was too high?
3. Insufficient nutrients in the must?
4. Insufficient air in the must?
5. The sugar concentration is too high for the must to transfer through the cell membranes of the yeast?
6. The yeast you are using really requires to be rehydrated in water before you pitch it into the juice?
7 You stored the yeast in less than optimum conditions and they are no longer viable
8. The yeast IS active but the lag time for the yeast you have chosen means that you have assumed that nothing is happening.
I would check out each of these 8 possible outcomes before I pitched more yeast.

 

[_bygolly]

I honestly think I thermal shocked it. Rather than using warm tap water which I should've done, I put the water on the stove and it got way too hot. So now I think I've got a whole tablespoon of dead yeast in there, and the guy at the store as well as others have said whether it be one gallon or 5, you could dump the whole packet of yeast in there. Better to have more yeast than not enough apparently. So I think I just killed it all and that's why nothing's happening.

 

[Malted-Anarchy]

It is better to over-pitch than to under-pitch. Under-pitching stresses the yeast and can result in off flavoring, stalled ferments, and all around bad results. On the other hand, I wouldn't go adding twenty times the amount of yeast required to a small batch, it's begging for cloudy product and longer floc time. In the case of a high-gravity beer, though, you should pitch another half on top of what you normally would to help reduce stress and lag time.

As for thermally shocking your yeast, according to "How to Brew" by John Palmer, recommended rehydrating temperature is 95-105F.

 

[_bygolly]

Well I have not seen much movement other than particles rising very slowly to the top, and a slight foam as formed on top as well, but no movement in the airlock. The other batch I made yesterday with only one teaspoon and warm water has already started fermenting, and has actually over flown through the airlock, which is another problem I've encountered.

 

[Malted-Anarchy]

I'm assuming the "little movement" batch is the thermally shocked one? It could be, that perhaps a small amount of yeast survived and is slowly building up to ferment, but this will end up stressing the yeast. It could also be wild yeast taking over the batch.

I'd almost drop more yeast in, a fresh pitch to get it going.

*Edit* As for your over-ferment, you can always rig a blow-off with a hose, submerged into a half a bottle of water with StarSan or Iodophor. That will keep from making such a mess and save you the trouble of cleaning out the airlock so much. Also, "Fermcap" will reduce the krauzen on a ferment, but it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

 

[_bygolly]

I almost wanna throw it out and just start clean. But everyone's tellin me not to dump it, just add another tsp of yeast.
And I actually bought a tube for the blow off but when I got home everything was pretty much normal for the overflowing batch. No more over flow, the stopper managed to stay in, it seemed pretty controlled. Some cider managed to get in the airlock but I'll just change the water I guess. So alls good for now, I guess I'll add some yeast to the "dead" batch and see what happens

 

[Malted-Anarchy]

For the negligible cost of yeast, you may as well give it a couple days. Don't give up, keep trying until there is nothing left to save. Some of the best things come from "not going to plan".

 

[_bygolly]

Hmm well alright. I appreciate the advice