Favorite Dry Yeast Strains?

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The general consensus is that ...

It can take a while for the "general consensus" to catch up with changes (for example, Fermentis and pitching their dry yeast strains without rehydrating).

I was simply trying to get some people to take a step back from knowledge flexing and answer the OP's question which inquired if you, home brewers, use a starter with dry yeast...

I currently don't use a starter with dry yeast (dry yeast is cheap where I live and shop).

Until recently, I've pitched all strains of dry yeast without re-hydrating.

For dry yeast strains that are currently not working for me, I'm starting to follow yeast lab instructions more closely (hint: Lallemand only talks about rehydrating their dry yeast). I'll know more in six to twelve months.

 

[i4ourgot]

Most makers grow their yeast for drying in a way that stuffs the cells full of sterols, so if you use dry yeast you don't need to worry _too_ much about aeration, whereas liquid yeast and yeast from starters don't have so many sterols per cell and so they need more aeration for good results. If you put dry yeast through a starter then the sterols don't go away, but if there's cell division then you will end up with fewer sterols per cell and a correspondingly greater need for aeration.

This should be helpful because I am not sure if I will be able to aerate my wort. I currently use an oxygen stone and I am not sure if I will be able to buy oxygen where I am going.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Well, considering there are numerous threads about creating starters for dry yeast and there is, of course, an exceeding amount of conflicting opinions within these threads. That's where I get the idea of the controversy...I appreciate the infinite wisdom but you really only said dry yeast in starters require more oxygen. All that great info, but not Really answering the question. So do you do a starter with dry yeast or no?

Of course I don't. There may be controversy on the boards, but that doesn't really reflect the state of the science which is pretty settled. But given that science, there may be specific (but rare) reasons for people wanting to do the alternative thing, which is why a simple "I do this" answer is not particularly helpful.

So clearly rehydrating is better, when you still lose cells if pitched directly!? Again, great info but it still points to rehydrating. Thanks. And I understand Fermentis states rehydrating is no longer necessary, but does that mean you get the same cell count without it!? Or that the loss rate is more acceptable!?

I should have been clearer - I wasn't comparing direct pitching with rehydrating. You still lose cells when rehydrating, and it now seems that the loss when direct pitching is in the same ballpark as when rehydrating. So rehydrating starts to look like dressing up as Darth Vader when brewing - something that you're welcome to do, but the time and effort required won't actually make any difference to your beer.

Yeah, I agree. I was simply trying to get some people to take a step back from knowledge flexing and answer the OP's question which inquired if you, home brewers, use a starter with dry yeast...sometimes the point gets missed by the need to talk

I'd view "knowledge flexing" as taking the time to teach someone to fish, to understand the issues, rather than a simple "give them a fish" as what I do may not be relevant to their circumstances.

This should be helpful because I am not sure if I will be able to aerate my wort. I currently use an oxygen stone and I am not sure if I will be able to buy oxygen where I am going.

I thought as much - problems with aeration will push you towards using dry yeast and negate the benefits of starters (aside from the fact that extra steps like making a starter give more opportunity for infection).

 

[dmtaylor]

We are getting off on a bit of a tangent, but.....

@Northern_Brewer, and anyone else interested..... regarding yeast starters for dried yeasts.... I would like very much to hear any opinions on the below linked topic regarding tartness from many dried yeasts. Interestingly, US-05 doesn't seem to produce the same effect, and there may be other examples of tart vs. non-tart. However, for those that do seem a little tart, perhaps measure the pH of the finished beer and see where it comes out, then try making a starter first and then check final pH from the starter version, and see if it makes a big difference and shows no sign of unusual tart flavor. At the very least, I'm intrigued at the theory and at some of the results.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=32475.msg418105#msg418105

 

[GoeHaarden]

Of course I don't.

Lol. This is all I wanted!

But given that science, there may be specific (but rare) reasons for people wanting to do the alternative thing, which is why a simple "I do this" answer is not particularly helpful.

I'm all for evidence based practice and I'm not above changing my practice if evidence proves otherwise. However, I still think it's nice have more educated people, including yourself, share their common practice. For people like me who like to try things because smarter people are doing it. I put the "controversial comments" in because inevitably someone will disagree on here...

I should have been clearer...I'd view "knowledge flexing" as taking the time to teach someone to fish, to understand the issues, rather than a simple "give them a fish" as what I do may not be relevant to their circumstances.

Sorry, I was reading it wrong. The issue with text. Can't pick up on context or tone. I thought you were disagreeing about doing starters. And I do appreciate the expertise you provide!!

Cheers!!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

....

I would like very much to hear any opinions...

...

At the very least, I'm intrigued at the theory and at some of the results.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=32475.msg418105#msg418105

I'm intrigued as well.

Now on to observations, opinions , and what I may do next.

For the strains that I use, should I pitch it dry or re-hydrate?

• Fermentis had that big announcement that one can pitch many of their dry yeast strains without re-hydrating. They also offer re-hydration instructions for the strains that I use.
  
• Lallemand's dry yeast instructions, for the strains that I use in late 2018, only talk about re-hydration.
  
• Mangrove Jacks (for the strains that I use) seems to be OK with pitching with out re-hydration, although they do say "Although Mangrove Jack’s Craft Series Yeasts do not require re-hydration, cleaner and more professional results will be produced if rehydrated before use."

I have been pitching dry for the last couple of years. I get good results with Fermentis strains, so-so results with Lallemand (when I pitch dry). With Lallemand strains, I'm going back to re-hydrating to see what happens. To me, this seems simpler than making a starter. (Note that I do not reuse yeast).

 

[day_trippr]

I thought it had been clearly proven that a rather large hit to viability is avoided when dry yeast are hydrated in water with reasonable mineral content (ie: not DI or RO).
Last time I looked all of the Fermentis sheets on their yeast strains listed hydration ahead of simply sprinkling atop wort...

Cheers!

 

[dmtaylor]

Nothing is ever clear because people who sell books tell us one thing while our own experience can tell us other things.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I thought it had been clearly proven that a rather large hit to viability is avoided when dry yeast are hydrated in water with reasonable mineral content (ie: not DI or RO).
Last time I looked all of the Fermentis sheets on their yeast strains listed hydration ahead of simply sprinkling atop wort...

Cheers!

Quite recently fermentis did a study where they found the difference in viability between direct pitching vs rehydrating was insignificant. They have changed their instructions since then saying that most of their yeast can be directly sprinkled on wort.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

For me it's Belle Saison, US-05, 34/70 and S-189. Kveik also dries really nicely.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I thought it had been clearly proven that a rather large hit to viability is avoided when dry yeast are hydrated in water with reasonable mineral content (ie: not DI or RO).

IIRC, the source for this either from the book Yeast (2013) or a blog post by a respected source (2011?). The information from Fermentis (for pitching dry with good results) was published in 2018. Newer information isn't always better, but ...

What's interesting about the Fermentis information is that it appears to support the anecdotal comments of numerous people over the last couple of years - some dry yeast strains can be pitched without re-hydration with good results.

And it's still appropriate to re-hydrate Fermentis strains of dry yeast.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Both Lallemand and Fermentis are also coming around to admitting that there is absolutely no need to aerate when using their dry yeasts. Lallemand makes this explicit within their technical specifications, and (from the testimony of a forum member who recently called Fermentis to inquire of this) Fermentis is about to make this explicit as well.

Yeast need oxygen in order to fabricate certain fatty acids that they need to generate and infuse into the wort before they can begin to turn sugars into alcohol. Dry yeast already has sufficient of these alcohol precursor fatty acids present within each pack.

 

[ncbrewer]

Quite recently fermentis did a study where they found the difference in viability between direct pitching vs rehydrating was insignificant. They have changed their instructions since then saying that most of their yeast can be directly sprinkled on wort.

On this page https://fermentis.com/fermentation-solutions/you-create-beer/ it says "With E2U™ active dry yeasts, you can pitch directly or rehydrate; depending on your equipment, habits and feelings.". On the packet (just bought this - expires July 2020) it says "Pitching: Sprinkle into wort." On this page https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SafAle-US-05.pdf (for US-05), it says "Direct Pitching Pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel on the surface of the wort at or above the fermentation temperature. Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available to avoid clumps. Ideally, the yeast will be added during the first part of the filling of the vessel; in which case hydration can be done at wort temperature higher than fermentation temperature, the fermenter being then filled with wort at lower temperature to bring the entire wort temperature at fermentation temperature". Rehydration instructions are given as an alternative.

The instructions for dry pitch, with warm wort followed by cooler wort, seems like it would complicate a brew day. And it doesn't say how warm the wort should be initially, or whether it should be pitched before or after aerating, or how long to let it rehydrate in the warmer wort, or if it should be stirred after pitching, or if it is OK to pitch on the foam without stirring it in. My take on this is that Fermentis hasn't given us good practical guidelines for dry pitching, so I continue to rehydrate.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The instructions for dry pitch, with warm wort followed by cooler wort, seems like it would complicate a brew day. And it doesn't say how warm the wort should be initially, or whether it should be pitched before or after aerating, or how long to let it rehydrate in the warmer wort, or if it should be stirred after pitching, or if it is OK to pitch on the foam without stirring it in. My take on this is that Fermentis hasn't given us good practical guidelines for dry pitching, so I continue to rehydrate.

No need to aerate with dry yeast, unless you are re-using the yeast cake off of a previous brew.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

My take on this is that Fermentis hasn't given us good practical guidelines for dry pitching, so I continue to rehydrate.

I suspect that, anecdotally, most people cool the wort to around the desired fermentation temperature, sprinkle the yeast on top of the wort (or foam), and turn the lights off on their way out of their "home brewery". I could probably find a couple of sentences in the latest US-05 technical data sheet that support this approach - but ... ... I'm running short on keystrokes today . ?!?

 

[i4ourgot]

Thanks guys lots of great info!

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

Air temps will be around 60F at night and 80F during the day, but I will be able to keep the beer inside at around 70F. I will not have very good fermentation control over the temperature.

A good old wet towel around your fermenter. and an electric fan can keep the temp in the low 60's even in hot weather. You have to fiddle with it a bit but a fast yeast like S04 or Nottingham are pretty well done in a few days. My experience is that ale yeast is much better from 62ish to about 70F gives much better results than letting it creep up to 70 or higher, unless you like banana beer.

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

Hi,
I am traveling to another country where I am told I can get grains and hops but not yeast. I was hoping to bring some dry yeast down with me so I can still make beer. Anyone have any favorites?

After 10 years I've all but quit using anything but dry yeasts. The cost, low cell count and hassle with liquids has me over them unless it is something really exotic that I need. Favorites- S05, S04, Diamond Lager, 34/70 S23, Nottingham, Bry 97

 

[z-bob]

The prices of dry yeast have crept up much faster than liquid yeast, so there's really not that much difference in price anymore, dry yeast is just easier to store. That's why I've started experimenting with liquid cultures.

I'm really wanting to play with indigenous yeast to see what happens, like the yeast dust I see on wild buckthorn berries (I know the berries are slightly poisonous) Or next summer, wild raspberries. They will be POF+, but that's okay for some styles, especially wheat beers.