Experiement Idea: brew day to bottle to glass in 3 weeks.

[DSorenson]

I am well acquainted with the general rules of thumb and follow them strictly for all of my beers. I'm down to around two cases of homebrew and want to pump it up a bit. I pose this experiment concept:

1) brew a low to moderate gravity beer (1.04-1.045 using a yeast I am very familiar with (Nottingham). I'm considering using vienna or munich malts only.

2) bottle at one week with 1 oz priming sugar per gallon. Notthingham reaches terminal by then (almost always 1.008. I will of course check to make sure).

3) bottle carbonate for 2 weeks and serve... and see what has happened.

It was an idea i just had and a few searches didn't find anything except what passedpawn as written concerning kegging.

Dear beloved community, what do you have to say about this tom-foolery?

The Experiment:

Brew Day: Tuesday 3/18/14. I brewed a mild ale recipe I designed. Ended up with 20 IBUs and 1.045 OG at 6 gallons. Temp controlled fermentation at 60 F using Nottingham Ale yeast with the expected final gravity around 1.008. Krausen fell by Friday night.

Gravity Check: Monday 3/24/14. Gravity a little high at 1.011 or 1.0105. Tasted the sample, yeasty as expected, but no detectible off flavors. Going to let it climb naturally to 65 F (if possible in two days), my thoughts being that it might get the yeast to knock down that few extra points. Hoping to bottle on Wednesday, 3/26/14.

Gravity Check: Wednesday 3/26/14. The gravity is about two points higher than I have expected, sitting at just a about 1.010. The fermenter is at 63 F. Tasted the sample, still prickly and yeasty as expected, but now the chocolate and toasty flavors are coming though. I may try to bottle today, but I am not confident FG has been reached. Over two days it only came down maybe half a point.

Gravity Check: Friday 3/28/14. The gravity has not budged. The temperature has increased to 65 F. I am going to use 3.1 oz of corn sugar to prime, hoping to achieve 2 volumes of CO2; that's the upper end allowable according to "style". Now we sit back and wait for the results. I am going to chill a bottle over night on day 21 and see what happens on day 22.

Results: I put a bottle in the fridge on day 20, a day earlier than intended just to actually drink the beer on day 21. Yesterday was 21 days to the day of brewing, and I popped the bottle. It was carbonated lightly, as I might have expected for 2 volumes of CO2. There were no detectible off flavors and the flavor was roasty and toasty with notes of chocolate. The nose on the beer is malt-driven and attractive. The flavor profile is somewhere between a brown and a porter, with a light body to the beer.

Conclusion:
Come on, DSorenson, how good could the beer really be after only 3 weeks? Our kegging friends are well aware of how good a "young" beer can be when properly constructed and cared for. I believe I can attest to the same thing, just with approximately 2 weeks of bottle conditioning. The beer came out better than I could have hoped. I will definitely be doing this again.

Thanks for all the help, HBT!
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Advise for anyone who wishes to accomplish this:

Required skills and knowledge:
-Hitting a narrow range of low to moderate original gravities
-How to correct gravity that is too high/low
-Taking accurate hydrometer readings
-Temperature control
-The behavior of the yeast you intend to use.

1) Be experienced with brewing! It's a shame because I feel 3 weeks is much more "beginner brewer" friendly. We all know what I'm talking about. I feel like there are too many pitfalls with this time frame for a new or novice brewer/bottler.

2) Don't be afraid to confirm your hydrometer readings. I am glad I didn't bottle on my intended bottling day to make sure the fermentation was done.

3) Choose your yeast wisely. Some yeasts are renown for reliability, and others are more finicky than a 2 year old.

4) Fermentation temperature is probably hugely important, since the yeast has no additional time to work on flaws created during fermentation. (Not to mention some flaws can't always be worked out.)

 

[Yooper]

Sure, why not? I keg, but I've done a mild in 10 days from grain to glass. If you've got an extra two weeks, more the better.

Here's a cool thread on the mild swap we did a few years ago: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/project-10der-mild-10-milds-10-days-month-10-a-77758/

The rule was that the beer must be brewed, carbed, bottled, and then shipped out on day 10.

I routinely drink beers by day 15-20, although I keg so the beer doesn't need to carb up in the bottle. I don't think I've left a beer in the fermenter more than 2 weeks in ages and ages. A well made lower OG beer, especially using a flocculant yeast, will be ready to bottle by day 7-10 in almost all cases (except for dryhopping or lagering).

 

[geoffm33]

Here are a lot of threads relating to his, hopefully you will get some hints as to which grain/yeast/styles are more conducive to a quick turnaround. Some of these posts may relate to kegging specifically since you can cheat the carbonation time.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8

EDIT: Fixed spelling, and to say, good luck! I may try this as well.

 

[opiate82]

Looks like it should work, only concern I would have is my experience with Nottingham is that it produces quite a bit of diacetyl that needs some additional time to rest out. I tried to get a blonde grain-to-glass (kegging) in 10 days using notty and it ended up with so much diacetyl I could have sold it to the local movie theater as a replacement for their popcorn butter.

 

[Croyzen]

Looks like it should work, only concern I would have is my experience with Nottingham is that it produces quite a bit of diacetyl that needs some additional time to rest out. I tried to get a blonde grain-to-glass (kegging) in 10 days using notty and it ended up with so much diacetyl I could have sold it to the local movie theater as a replacement for their popcorn butter.

What temperature did you ferment at? Last brew was the Centennial Blonde found here using Nottingham. No diacetyl off flavors. In fact, I've used Nottingham a bunch and have yet to experience this. I've never let the temp of the carboy rise about 64F though until active fermentation was done, then I let rest at around 68F until I can deal with it. If you're fermenting warmer who knows what flavors you get...

From grain to bottle to glass in a little under 4 weeks. You really have no choice when bottling but to wait until it's done and carbed up fully.

 

[max384]

Nottingham is my ale yeast of choice, and what I use for probably 90% of my brews. I've never had a diacetyl problem. I don't have a temp-controlled fermenter, so my fermenting temps vary a bit. They range from about 65-68. I bottle/keg at two weeks at a minimum up to over a month, depending on the style.

 

[opiate82]

I have a heated/cooled STC-1000 controlled chamber and ferment most of my ales at 62. Have no issues whatsoever with british and cali yeast strains.

I don't have my brew-notes here, but for that particular brew I think I did 7 days at 62, kegged then 48 hours cold-crash, then 1 day force carb.

 

[DSorenson]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I am unbelievably excited to do this. If yooper says it's possible... it must be. I haven't had any diacetyl problems with notty, but then again I have never tried anything like this. I would be open to other flocculant strains that attenuate well, but I really have a feel for notty.

Also, deathbrewer mentioned krausening... is this an effective way to bottle carb faster? Or just a different way?

I would love to find a way to bottle while a small amount of fermentation was occurring; enough to carb.... but I don't think that is possible.

 

[RM-MN]

Now that you're all fired up about getting your beer into bottles quickly and then into stomach, let me mention a caveat. Yeast are living creatures and like people, they don't always do what they should, especially in large groups. In my case I brewed an English mild, fairly low OG, used Windsor yeast. At 2 weeks I took a hydrometer sample, hmmm, a little high but I had mashed quite high to get a malty beer. Checked it again 2 days later, same reading. Checked it a third time on bottling day which was about a week later and the hydrometer reading was the same. Pretty safe to bottle, no? I primed with a little less sugar than was called for since this was a mild and should be low on carbonation.

Two weeks later I heard a pop from the basement. Yep, bottle bomb. I lost 7 bottles from explosions and dumped the rest out before they could blow.

Do you still want to rush your beer to bottles?

 

[kharper6]

Sounds like my normal 6-8 day grain to glass. It's easy if you treat your yeast right and you know your attenuation.

 

[DSorenson]

Now that you're all fired up about getting your beer into bottles quickly and then into stomach, let me mention a caveat. Yeast are living creatures and like people, they don't always do what they should, especially in large groups. In my case I brewed an English mild, fairly low OG, used Windsor yeast. At 2 weeks I took a hydrometer sample, hmmm, a little high but I had mashed quite high to get a malty beer. Checked it again 2 days later, same reading. Checked it a third time on bottling day which was about a week later and the hydrometer reading was the same. Pretty safe to bottle, no? I primed with a little less sugar than was called for since this was a mild and should be low on carbonation.

Two weeks later I heard a pop from the basement. Yep, bottle bomb. I lost 7 bottles from explosions and dumped the rest out before they could blow.

Do you still want to rush your beer to bottles?

I hear that. I know perfectly well what I am setting myself up for. I will take proper precautions.

 

[BWE]

I fermented a blonde for 7 days, and had it carbed and drinking by day 10. I kegged though. Good luck!

 

[IL1kebeer]

You are on the right track for a fast turn around beer: a reasonable OG and a fast yeast. I know that this goes without saying but make sure that you have a super healthy ferment so that off flavors will be taken care off by the yeast in the short time span. An appropriately sized healthy pitch and controlled temps with a ramp up for the last 3 or 4 days and you are good. Also, make sure to give it a taste before you bottle it up to make sure that it's cleaned up.

 

[DSorenson]

Update: brewed on Tuesday, OG: 1.045, 20 Ibus, 5 and change gallons.
As of tonight (Friday night), the krausen has fallen after a fast and furious initial fermentation at 60 F.

I didn't think of this since it doesn't really matter, but what do you consider day one of beer creation? The day off wort production, or the day after?

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

Neat idea, since I keg I call this 'every beer', but I'll be curious to see how this turns out bottling.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Update: brewed on Tuesday, OG: 1.045, 20 Ibus, 5 and change gallons.
As of tonight (Friday night), the krausen has fallen after a fast and furious initial fermentation at 60 F.

I didn't think of this since it doesn't really matter, but what do you consider day one of beer creation? The day off wort production, or the day after?

Brew day seems to be what everyone uses.

 

[Riot]

If you're worried about fermentation being totally complete, warm it up when it starts to slow down. Pretty much every beer I make spends at least a couple days in my bottle room just to be sure.

 

[DSorenson]

Thanks for the advise everyone! I am reading and considering all of your posts very carefully. I am learning a great deal from the process of trying to be the most efficient with yeast- tough considering how fickle the beasties can be.

Update: Monday 3/24/14. Gravity a little high at 1.011 or 1.0105. Tasted the sample, yeasty as expected, but no detectible off flavors. Going to let it climb naturally to 65 F (if possible in two days), my thoughts being that it might get the yeast to knock down that few extra points. Hoping to bottle on Wednesday, 3/26/14.

Thoughts so far, folks? I'm used to much longer primary fermentation lengths, but I want to stay true to my experiment. I expect to require a full 14 days for bottle conditioning.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Thanks for the advise everyone! I am reading and considering all of your posts very carefully. I am learning a great deal from the process of trying to be the most efficient with yeast- tough considering how fickle the beasties can be.

Update: Monday 3/24/14. Gravity a little high at 1.011 or 1.0105. Tasted the sample, yeasty as expected, but no detectible off flavors. Going to let it climb naturally to 65 F (if possible in two days), my thoughts being that it might get the yeast to knock down that few extra points. Hoping to bottle on Wednesday, 3/26/14.

Thoughts so far, folks? I'm used to much longer primary fermentation lengths, but I want to stay true to my experiment. I expect to require a full 14 days for bottle conditioning.

Depending on the recipe, it could be done already, but if this is your first time with this recipe and with a fast turn around then it would be a good idea to let it go for another day or two, just to be safe. If it doesn't move then you know future brews with that recipe should be done at that FG in 6 days if all things are the same. Remember to take tasting notes after it's cold and carbonated to see if there is any diacytel or acetaldehyde. If so then a some tweaks to your fermentation profile will be necessary. Learning from experience is the best and if you pay close attention to this one then you will be better and more confident on your next fast turn around beer.

There is only 1 recipe that I do in under 1 week and that's my American Wheat. Most other fast turnarounds for me are 7-8 days just to be sure that the yeast have cleaned up and have mostly cleared. If you bottle on Wednesday you will be at 8 days which is pretty reasonable, but like I said if your FG doesn't move and you don't get any off flavors after it's carbonated, then you can definitely do this one in 6 days.

I don't think that this was mentioned either, but make sure you carb for the full two weeks. When I used to bottle I would get acetaldehyde when I checked my bottles at one week. Opened one at two weeks and it was gone. I say this so you don't get worried if you check one at one week and get an off flavor

 

[DSorenson]

If you bottle on Wednesday you will be at 8 days which is pretty reasonable, but like I said if your FG doesn't move and you don't get any off flavors after it's carbonated, then you can definitely do this one in 6 days.

I suppose a true first run does come with a little bit of slop in the works! I also agree with you; the one thing I cannot cheat is 2 weeks for bottle conditioning. I am interested to see how much of that 'clean up' will occur during bottle conditioning while the yeast work on the priming sugars. And by clean up I am referring the general improvement of beer over time.

What I would like to see in the conditioning process is a miniature scale "secondary" in twenty four 22 oz bottles... but then again I wish I could squeeze beer out of rocks, too.

Wish in one hand, drink with the other until you forget the wish.

 

[IL1kebeer]

I am interested to see how much of that 'clean up' will occur during bottle conditioning while the yeast work on the priming sugars. And by clean up I am referring the general improvement of beer over time.

What I would like to see in the conditioning process is a miniature scale "secondary" in twenty four 22 oz bottles... but then again I wish I could squeeze beer out of rocks, too.

Not sure if any yeast related conditioning is going on while it's refermenting. They will condition again after they eat up all the sugars, but who knows how much they have left in them before they go to sleep.

I'd imagine some non-yeast related chemical reactions are going on that might round out the flavor. Whether or not it's really noticeable in that short period, if at all, partly depends on the style of beer and the recipe.

By the way. What did you brew? I don't remember seeing you mention it.

 

[DSorenson]

I ended up brewing a 'mild', which is to say I took some liberties by using Vienna malt as a significant contributor, then American two row, and carapils and pale chocolate taking up 5 percent of the calculated OG each. I used east Kent goldings, .9 oz at 60 mins and .1 oz at flame out.

I really appreciate the interest in my project. I hope it achieves some results we (who are forced to bottle) can use to brew decent if not good beer in a short amount of time.

Since I have never had a mild, I am not sure what to expect. Perhaps I should have gone with orfy's recipe, but what the hey... I like to make something I can call my own.

 

[IL1kebeer]

I ended up brewing a 'mild', which is to say I took some liberties by using Vienna malt as a significant contributor, then American two row, and carapils and pale chocolate taking up 5 percent of the calculated OG each. I used east Kent goldings, .9 oz at 60 mins and .1 oz at flame out.

I really appreciate the interest in my project. I hope it achieves some results we (who are forced to bottle) can use to brew decent if not good beer in a short amount of time.

Since I have never had a mild, I am not sure what to expect. Perhaps I should have gone with orfy's recipe, but what the hey... I like to make something I can call my own.

I'm pretty sure that you will have a great beer after those two weeks in the bottle. Milds are a famous fast turn around beer.

 

[DSorenson]

Gravity Check: Wednesday 3/26/14. The gravity is about two points higher than I have expected, sitting at just a about 1.010. The fermenter is at 63 F. Tasted the sample, still prickly and yeasty as expected, but now the chocolate and toasty flavors are coming though. I may try to bottle today, but I am not confident FG has been reached. Over two days it only came down maybe half a point.

I'm really considering bottling. I have to get to the LHBS for some more 22 oz bottles, but when I get back I will be eager for advise. Pull the trigger?

 

[DSorenson]

I don't mean to be obnoxious here, but I have to bump. The next possible day I can bottle is Friday, which is going to throw off the experiment I think. Here is some additional information that might help to explain a higher FG than my expected 1.008:

Mashed at 155 F for an hour.
Used about 0.5 lbs Carapils
Fermented with Nottingham at 60 F for 8 days (so far).

What do you guys think? I am also thinking about carbonating to style (approximately 1.8 volumes of CO2)... thoughts?

 

[DSorenson]

Gravity Check: Friday 3/28/14. The gravity has not budged. The temperature has increased to 65 F. I am going to use 3.1 oz of corn sugar to prime, hoping to achieve 2 volumes of CO2; that's the upper end allowable according to "style". Now we sit back and wait for the results. I am going to chill a bottle over night on day 21 and see what happens on day 22.


I estimated 5.25 gallons of beer to bottle and it seemed to come out to that amount in my bottling bucket, but when I do the math on the bottle yield (24-22oz + 10-12oz) I get about 5.06 gallons. There should have only been about 4 oz left in the bucket. If I take the difference between estimated and calculated, we find a difference in about 24 oz. if I subtract about 4 ounces left in the bottling bucket from that amount we get about 20 ounces that has mysteriously disappeared. If I assume I over filled my bottles, then that means I over filled by about 0.59 ounces. Has anyone ever noticed this phenomena?

 

[DSorenson]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the support!
The beer turned out great. I had one on April 8th, 21 days to the day of brewing.
I edited the original post to reflect the whole experience.

 

[boydster]

I see you didn't get a lot of replies toward the end of the experiment, but kudos for following through and updating everyone. I'd be interested to hear if the beer improves noticeably over the next week or two, and if the carbonation increases at all or stays consistent.

Thanks for doing this!

 

[DSorenson]

Thanks Boydster!

I too am curious to see how carbonation improves. Since the bottles must become cold to absorb more CO2, I suspect that prolonged refrigeration will yield more bubbles. I will also see if the carbonation levels change for the bottles that remain out of the fridge. I will keep you posted for sure.

Just trying to give back to a community that has given so much to me!

 

[IL1kebeer]

See! Good beer can be made in less than a month with a healthy fermentation and the right recipe. Great job! I have been preaching this on here for months and have encountered a lot of people that dismiss the notion almost immediately even though they obviously haven't tried it.

I currently have on tap an American wheat that was fermented for 7 days and carbonated for 2 days at triple psi and 1 day at my equilibrium pressure. Very delicious at 10 days old. I will be sending it off to competition this week... High hopes for this one. I've also had a 1.072 American Stout that was fermented for 8 days and it won gold in a a fairly large competition in February. I'm not trying to brag. I'm simply trying to give examples of my successful fast turnarounds to show that it can be done with great results, even with relatively higher OG beers. Fermentation is key. Recipe follows.

I think your beer may round out a bit as it cold conditions but it shouldn't change much unless you keep it for a long while, at least that's what I experience. If it tastes good now then I believe that it's a success. I can't really comment on carbonation when bottle conditioning because its been so long since I've done that, and I don't have a lot of experience with it because I jumped to kegging relatively quickly. Let us know how it goes.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[boydster]

Regarding the CO2 needing time to absorb into solution, take a look at this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/carbonation-differences-bottles-varying-temps-441011/

By cooling the bottle, you're allowing any chill haze (which could create nucleation sites for the CO2 to come out of solution) to settle, and ensuring that the CO2 doesn't rapidly come out of solution due to pressure change when the cap comes off. It's a HBT myth that the bottles need fridge time to absorb CO2 from the headspace into the beer, though. The myth is confirmed by experience, sure, but it's not for the reason that it is generally attributed to.

 

[DSorenson]

Thanks again, Boydster! That makes a lot of sense. I will undoubtedly then see in increase in the quality of my carbonation, if not an increase in quantity of carbonation. This makes total perception of quantity different, I'm sure.

It seems like even a beer given proper time to bottle condition still needs some type of "cold crash" (not referring to the technique used during fermentation) to allow the particulates to drop out. I'm going to go stick more bottles in the fridge!

 

[DSorenson]

Well the carbonation levels have honestly remained about the same. The (expected) thin head dies off slower now, but the prickles on the tongue are about the same! I would say that the carbonation has improved in quality, not really in quantity.

It's a great beer and I'm proud of it!

 

[ngunsch]

OP, thanks for this thread! This is exactly what I was searching for. I will be dumping over two cases that are obviously infected with our old friends, those darned "gusher bugs." Anyway, I've decided to make two quick-turn-around beers to replace what I lost to what I assume was my own poor sanitation. Cheers!

 

[DSorenson]

Excellent, glad this was able to help! I think all of us bottlers have this shortage crisis once in a while for various reasons; too many friends, the last brew was really good, busted fermenter,... etc. Bottle bombs are perhaps the most tragic. My condolences.

 

[Hobbes88]

. Pretty safe to bottle, no? I primed with a little less sugar than was called for since this was a mild and should be low on carbonation.

Two weeks later I heard a pop from the basement. Yep, bottle bomb. I lost 7 bottles from explosions and dumped the rest out before they could blow.

Do you still want to rush your beer to bottles?

What was the gravity... Like 1022 1018? His was 1010. He also knew that at that point he could maybe have gotten to 1008. Not much chance of those blowing up ever. Sounds like you might need to get to know your yeast better

 

[RM-MN]

What was the gravity... Like 1022 1018? His was 1010. He also knew that at that point he could maybe have gotten to 1008. Not much chance of those blowing up ever. Sounds like you might need to get to know your yeast better

My apparent FG was quite high because I mashed quite high and I had the same gravity for more than a week after a 2 week fermentation but I apparently picked up a wild yeast that works slowly but will keep on fermenting below what the yeast I used should be able to as I have seen in a few other batches, batches that are at the expected FG when I open them (like 1.015) and then in the course of another 2 weeks will go on down to 1.002 or less. My problem to solve as I'm pretty certain of my mash temps and have had good results in the past with the same thermometers and setup. I really wouldn't expect something like Windsor to be able to ferment to 1.002.

The real point I was trying to make is to not rush the bottling too much or be prepared for the chance of bottle bombs by containing the bottles in a tub with a lid just in case until you are sure that you aren't going to get bottle bombs.

 

[DSorenson]

Well I certainly appreciate RM-MN's cautionary tale. Things like that unfortunately happen and it is another danger with bottling on such a short schedule. If bacteria had gotten into my bottles, or even a saison yeast or something, that 1.010 reduced to 1.002 plus the priming sugar would go 'boom' for sure.

That is probably a rare case. It's worth noting that a strange, unexpected stuck fermentation could also be a similar issue in this vein. It's for reasons like this that I don't suggest someone who isn't familiar with these concepts attempt this kind of grain-glass schedule.

Hobbes88 is correct though in the fact that I had a really good idea of my attenuation. Even then I was surprised by 1.010. Honestly its one of two beers that I used Nottingham Ale Yeast on that didn't reach 1.008.

 

[DSorenson]

I just started another fast turn around beer on Monday, this time a pale ale type.
1.042 starting gravity, and 4 ounces of hops divided up in different quantities at 15, 10, 5, and flame out.
23 IBUs.
I'm going to call it a bitter, though I'm sure it's nothing like the real deal- Too many flavor and aroma additions.

 

[boydster]

I'm making a few easy drinking session beers right now. 7-10 days in the fermenter, then into bottles. Enjoyable after 1 week in the bottle but not at peak spritziness. Ready for prime time after 2 weeks in the bottle.