English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[kmarkstevens]

Yesterday's brews. One the right a best bitter 94% golden promise and 6% homemade invert fermented with Brewlabs TT. One the left a Treacle Flapjack oatmeal stout fermented with WLP026, only 5% treacle so should be subtle.

Picture taken ~14hrs post pitch, WLP026 is slow to start but working, it just does not want to unflock.
View attachment 744454
Fermenting in a square.

Shouldn't it be the Treacle Flapjack oatmeal stout on the right? Recipe if you would be so kind please

 

[ba-brewer]

Shouldn't it be the Treacle Flapjack oatmeal stout on the right? Recipe if you would be so kind please

You are correct, thanks.

This is for 2gal full volume no sparge at 62%BHE, 60min boil, targeting about 1048 starting gravity.

2lb Maris Otter (crisp#19) (48.5%)
1lb white wheat (24.2%)
6oz instant oatmeal (9.1%)
3oz British crystal 135/165 (4.5%)
3oz Pale Chocolate (4.5%)
3oz Roasted Barley (4.5%)
3oz Black Treacle (4.5%)
8gm Target 60min 11.5AA 30.1AA
wlp026

I did a stepped mash of 110F for 30min with half of the sparge water then added the rest as near boiling water to bring the mash up to 150, then used a RIMS to get to 156 for 60min.

The funny mash was something I seen people using to increase the clove flavor in wheat beers, hoping maybe it will enhance the vanilla flavor I can pick up from wlp029.

edit:
the initial mash was done with just the maris otter and wheat malt with plain RO water to keep the pH high. The remaining grains were added when I added the second addition of water. I used .5gm per gal of gypsum and calcium chloride which was all added to the second addition of water.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

EDIT: I did some Googling and found that Lime Ventures appear to have picked up some of the Sheltons' distribution. Their website lists Timothy Taylor, but there's no further info, so maybe things are still in flux.

I'd imagine there's an element of fallout from Brexit maxing out UK customs/export capacity, with priority being given to frankly rather more important trade items, and also the general screwing up of international trade at the moment, problems with port capacity etc.

 

[UdonPete]

What is the best/most popular base malt for English style ales ?

 

[Beermeister32]

Maris Otter

 

[Biggz1313]

Yesterday's brews. One the right left a best bitter 94% golden promise and 6% homemade invert fermented with Brewlabs TT. One on the left right Treacle Flapjack oatmeal stout fermented with WLP026, only 5% treacle so should be subtle.

Picture taken ~14hrs post pitch, WLP026 is slow to start but working, it just does not want to unflock.
View attachment 744454
Fermenting in a square.

edit: fixed my lefts and rights

Can I ask where you bought your WLP026 or did you have it on hand from a previous brew? I've been trying to get my hands on that yeast for a bit and since it's a vault strain I can't ever find it and have no idea when they last released it.

 

[Miraculix]

Yeah definitely, I brew maybe 40% traditional British styles 30% German styles and 30% American styles

Exactly the same here.

 

[shoreman]

Brewed up a version of 1952 Lees Best Mild over the weekend from Ron’s blog.

Had to sub for the invert (turbinado) and brown malt (special roast) but color and aroma worked out nicely. Looking forward to this one going into the colder months in New England.

sg of 1.036

hydro sample

 

[shoreman]

What is the best/most popular base malt for English style ales ?

a lot of folks use Marris Otter, but I would explore some of the others available to see what you prefer in your beers.

lately I’ve been really digging Golden Promise.

 

[Miraculix]

a lot of folks use Marris Otter, but I would explore some of the others available to see what you prefer in your beers.

lately I’ve been really digging Golden Promise.

If you can, try a single malt chevallier beer.

 

[UdonPete]

The reason I ask is I wish to buy a 25Kg sack of base to save buying a kilo or two each brew and use that for all my English Ales, mostly the likes of Bitter, Pale etc.
So am looking at M.O., Golden promise, Pale Ale Malt (Castle Malting) - but leaning more to ‘old reliable’ M.O.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Udon - I think you can't go wrong with MO. If you can, I'd get the sack and then a couple of pounds of the other candidates for SMASH triangle testing to see what you prefer.

@Miraculix My Chevallier experiment got infected, so tangy sour instead of what it should be tasting like.

 

[UdonPete]

Udon - I think you can't go wrong with MO. If you can, I'd get the sack and then a couple of pounds of the other candidates for SMASH triangle testing to see what you prefer.

@Miraculix My Chevallier experiment got infected, so tangy sour instead of what it should be tasting like.

That's sensible, I shall go with that - thank you everyone

 

[Shenanigans]

The reason I ask is I wish to buy a 25Kg sack of base to save buying a kilo or two each brew and use that for all my English Ales, mostly the likes of Bitter, Pale etc.
So am looking at M.O., Golden promise, Pale Ale Malt (Castle Malting) - but leaning more to ‘old reliable’ M.O.

I'd scratch Castle Pale Ale malt from that list as it is probably not what you are looking for.
A tasty malt in itself but a lot different than the other two.
It's darker and more malty (like most continental European pale ale malts), comparable to Vienna malt.

 

[UdonPete]

I'd scratch Castle Pale Ale malt from that list as it is probably not what you are looking for.
A tasty malt in itself but a lot different than the other two.
It's darker and more malty (like most continental European pale ale malts), comparable to Vienna malt.

Thank you, so back to the M.O. as my standard base

 

[Miraculix]

Udon - I think you can't go wrong with MO. If you can, I'd get the sack and then a couple of pounds of the other candidates for SMASH triangle testing to see what you prefer.

@Miraculix My Chevallier experiment got infected, so tangy sour instead of what it should be tasting like.

Urgs. Then do it again! Is worth it!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'd scratch Castle Pale Ale malt from that list as it is probably not what you are looking for.
A tasty malt in itself but a lot different than the other two.
It's darker and more malty (like most continental European pale ale malts), comparable to Vienna malt.

So am looking at M.O., Golden promise, Pale Ale Malt (Castle Malting) - but leaning more to ‘old reliable’ M.O.

Just as a basic principle, it's always sensible to stick to ingredients from the original country for a style, to avoid any weirdness that comes from another country trying to "interpret" an ingredient. Particularly in a case like this where malt character is an important part of styles like bitter.

So as long as you have reasonably easy access to British malts, you can't really go wrong with one of the old favourites like Otter or Promise. They're old favourites because they just work. Beyond that, strangers can't really help, it's up to you to work out what you like (including which maltster you prefer).

OTOH, you said "popular" - and it's worth noting per my chart in #2368, that despite their prominence in our world, Otter is barely a rounding error in UK barley production and Promise isn't even as much as that. The varieties that are "popular" in UK beer as a whole are the modern ones like Laureate and Planet, which have higher yields that drive down the cost of goods for big commercial brewers like Greene King and Asahi-Chiswick. They're the varieties that go into generic UK pale malts.

 

[UdonPete]

Just as a basic principle, it's always sensible to stick to ingredients from the original country for a style, to avoid any weirdness that comes from another country trying to "interpret" an ingredient. Particularly in a case like this where malt character is an important part of styles like bitter.

So as long as you have reasonably easy access to British malts, you can't really go wrong with one of the old favourites like Otter or Promise. They're old favourites because they just work. Beyond that, strangers can't really help, it's up to you to work out what you like (including which maltster you prefer).

OTOH, you said "popular" - and it's worth noting per my chart in #2368, that despite their prominence in our world, Otter is barely a rounding error in UK barley production and Promise isn't even as much as that. The varieties that are "popular" in UK beer as a whole are the modern ones like Laureate and Planet, which have higher yields that drive down the cost of goods for big commercial brewers like Greene King and Asahi-Chiswick. They're the varieties that go into generic UK pale malts.

Unfortunately I do not live in the UK and only a limited choice so I think it will have to be M.O. for my English ales – thank you

 

[mashpaddled]

Shelton Brothers went out of business; they imported Landlord, as well as many other world-class beers. Their annual beer festival was amazing.

EDIT: I did some Googling and found that Lime Ventures appear to have picked up some of the Sheltons' distribution. Their website lists Timothy Taylor, but there's no further info, so maybe things are still in flux. Perhaps you could contact them and ask about Landlord's future?

https://lvbev.com/

I'm fortunate that the Shelton festival came to Denver the year I moved here and I got to experience it once before they collapsed.

I imagine with time the entire Shelton line will get picked up by one or more distributors. A lot of the breweries they carried are particular about their distribution practices which Shelton Bros generally respected. It will probably take some time to see all those beers come back. Arranging for importing and then coordinating through distributors involves a lot of contract negotiation and building out supply chains.

 

[Section1]

I have a question on some English Ale recipes. I keep looking at some of the recipes Ron P has in his books and several list invert sugar. When would this be added? Any special process on how they are added?

I ordered an received some invert sugar but haven't opened them yet.

 

[cire]

I have a question on some English Ale recipes. I keep looking at some of the recipes Ron P has in his books and several list invert sugar. When would this be added? Any special process on how they are added?

I ordered an received some invert sugar but haven't opened them yet.

In the brewery it would be added to the kettle. Often it would be added at the beginning of the boil as many worts would be boiled higher than atmospheric pressure and would be sealed for the full duration of the boil. Of course it could be added at any stage in an open kettle, and many homebrewers add theirs in the second half of the boil and others add it during fermentation. I suspect few commercial brewers would do the latter as Invert sugar required to be dissolved as the grains were mashed to enable simplified verification of the correct duty being paid to government.

 

[Section1]

In the brewery it would be added to the kettle. Often it would be added at the beginning of the boil as many worts would be boiled higher than atmospheric pressure and would be sealed for the full duration of the boil. Of course it could be added at any stage in an open kettle, and many homebrewers add theirs in the second half of the boil and others add it during fermentation. I suspect few commercial brewers would do the latter as Invert sugar required to be dissolved as the grains were mashed to enable simplified verification of the correct duty being paid to government.

So there would be no need for need to add it during the mash. It seems then I should add it to the kettle before I start the boil. That's what I was thinking was the right time anyway. Thank you.

 

[hout17]

So there would be no need for need to add it during the mash. It seems then I should add it to the kettle before I start the boil. That's what I was thinking was the right time anyway. Thank you.

I added my invert the last 5 minutes of the boil. There is a lot of different opinions on this across the board.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'll typically add it to the 1st runnings and get it well mixed before flame on. I like it to be included in the preboil gravity and volume targets.

Adding to the mash would just leave some of it behind in the grain bed.

 

[kmarkstevens]

We're all over the place. Personally, I add invert at flame out. And then use invert or DME to get to the OG target if that was missed.

 

[cire]

We're all over the place. Personally, I add invert at flame out. And then use invert or DME to get to the OG target if that was missed.

Yes indeed, we are all over the place and as about 90% of my brews include invert, it's been tried at every conceivable stage except with grains in the mash.

The question related to recipes from Ron P which come from actual historic brews. In those cases, sugars would need to be prepared and added in a consistent way that could be checked by Excise Officers. This required sugars to be dissolved in a separate tank, often known as a second mash tun, then added to the copper. As many coppers were also fitted with relief valves to maintain a pound or 2 per square inch pressure while allowing volatiles to evaporate to open air, those sugars would necessarily be added at the start of the boil. As homebrewers don't have excise restraints and usually boil at ambient atmospheric pressure, we can do what suits, but adding cold sugar during the boil can reduce the temperature to below boiling point for short periods.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Do milds keep better if kegged but kept at cask-like temp and carbing (~10c, 1.8-2vol)? Also I had a glass of Hawkshead Red last night and thought it was really nice, do you think I would be able to make something similair by just combining a basic red ale grist with the hop schedule of a best bitter?

 

[Witherby]

Do you have the recipe that was spot on? They list the hops and Golden Promise in their website and I have a few recipes to go off of

West Yorkshire ale is their yeast from what I hear.

I have been very pleased with this Gordon Strong take on Landlord:
https://byo.com/recipe/timothy-taylor-brewery-landlord-clone/
If and when the pandemic ends, my wife and I are heading over to Yorkshire. Landlord will definitely be the first beer I drink.

 

[schmurf]

I can't really remember if I've had the real landlord on cask, but maltmillers recipe is quite good. But I'm unable to compare with the real thing.

 

[schmurf]

Do milds keep better if kegged but kept at cask-like temp and carbing (~10c, 1.8-2vol)? Also I had a glass of Hawkshead Red last night and thought it was really nice, do you think I would be able to make something similair by just combining a basic red ale grist with the hop schedule of a best bitter?

I think it's true for any beer that it keeps better if kept cold and the colder the better.

I would say yes to the hawkshead red... treat it as a bitter.