English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[schmurf]

My best beer so far was with pub and it was a step mash, fermented at room temperature and the grist included simple sugars in form of Lyle's golden syrup. I think the glucose addition through the syrup and the relatively warm fermentation temperature might be key for increased ester production/marmelade.

For "historical" reasons it has become a practice for me to start low, but perhaps I should try to start warmer for once. You do it at 20c? With or without a raise?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'd say around 20c is good for most English yeasts when you want a bit more ester character. I use mainly wlp 005 and set my stc1000 so the temp of the wort slowly fluctuates between 19-20c.

 

[Miraculix]

For "historical" reasons it has become a practice for me to start low, but perhaps I should try to start warmer for once. You do it at 20c? With or without a raise?

Just room temperature and off it goes! No temp control at all.

 

[kmarkstevens]

EKG is EKGy and First Gold is First Goldy - not sure what your point is?

My point being I've brewed a ton with First Gold (an EKG derivative dwarf) and little with real EKG. Not sure if folks here would recommend making more of an effort on EKG?

For no reason other than to overshare something not terribly relevant, I do have East Seattle Goldings in my front yard that are ripening up nicely just as we've started the rainy season. That said, not sure the actual provenance of those hops. And I only use them for a fresh ale once a year.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

My point being I've brewed a ton with First Gold (an EKG derivative dwarf) and little with real EKG. Not sure if folks here would recommend making more of an effort on EKG?

I think anyone interested in British beer outside Worcestershire would regard EKG as the gold standard that you can never have too much of...

As an aside, you have to go back something like 6 generations to find a purebred Goldings in the First Gold pedigree - so 1/64, although there's lots of Goldings generally in the background. They're not that close in flavour, it can have up to 4% farnesene which is generally considered one of the more Fuggles-y characteristics. First Gold is nice, but it's just different to Goldings.

As a note to the Brits here, next weekend would have been the Canterbury festival which traditionally marks the start of the green hop beer season, so keep an eye out for them.

 

[kmarkstevens]

As always, appreciate the education from the UK. Guess I better get a pound of English EKG on my next reorder.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

So I've been brewing a few batches of bitters with invert, and I really like the flavour it contributes.
But I find it thins out the body a bit, and thought of adding something like 3-5% flaked barley to give it a little thicker mouthfeel, yay or nay?
Also been using Northdown hops a bit, I really like the flavour/aroma of them, kinda tastes like what it smells when you walk in a damp pineforest during autumn. Might try them with Bramling X 50/50 for flavour and aroma additions, anyone got any experience with this combo?

 

[alexsnow555]

Homemade English Ale (Grain) Recipe
Ingredients:

• 2.8 kg pale ale malt;
• 400 gr. light wheat malt;
• 300 grams of light caramel malt;

For hopping:

• 30 grams of East Kent Goldings hops (add 60 minutes before);
• 20 grams of Fuggle hops (put in 15 minutes);
• 20g East Kent Goldings hops (early boil)
• Yeast brand S-04, WLP002, 1028;
• Use glucose for carbonation, in an amount of 4 grams per liter.

Preparation:

1. Mix the entire amount of malt with 10 liters of filtered water heated to 73 degrees Celsius. The mash should have a temperature not higher and not lower than 68 degrees. Withstand 1 hour.
2. Pour boiling water into the mass, the temperature should rise to 71 ° C. Leave for 15 minutes.
3. Filter the grain, rinse the mash with hot water heated to 78 degrees. The result should be a total wort volume of 23.5 liters.
4. Boil the wort for 1 hour. Add hops according to the scheme.
5. Cool, add yeast. Leave for the main fermentation for 5 days, at a temperature not higher than 22 degrees, secondary fermentation is a week. When bottled, carbonate and place in a cool place for maturation.

 

[RCope]

So I've been brewing a few batches of bitters with invert, and I really like the flavour it contributes.
But I find it thins out the body a bit, and thought of adding something like 3-5% flaked barley to give it a little thicker mouthfeel, yay or nay?
Also been using Northdown hops a bit, I really like the flavour/aroma of them, kinda tastes like what it smells when you walk in a damp pineforest during autumn. Might try them with Bramling X 50/50 for flavour and aroma additions, anyone got any experience with this combo?

I've brewed at least 2 beers with that combo. The first was an ESB-inspired rye beer. First Gold for bittering, ND and Bramling X for late boil/WP and 2oz each dry hop. It was excellent. Called it "Gone Awry". Used Bedford WLP006. The most recent was an ESB/IPA with those two and Fuggles, used a neutral yeast (Bell's) and it was very good. I really enjoyed the clean American yeast combo with the British malt bill and British hops. Something I will do again...Cheers!

 

[DBhomebrew]

So I've been brewing a few batches of bitters with invert, and I really like the flavour it contributes.
But I find it thins out the body a bit, and thought of adding something like 3-5% flaked barley to give it a little thicker mouthfeel, yay or nay?
Also been using Northdown hops a bit, I really like the flavour/aroma of them, kinda tastes like what it smells when you walk in a damp pineforest during autumn. Might try them with Bramling X 50/50 for flavour and aroma additions, anyone got any experience with this combo?

The first recipe I plan on brewing once the basement gets cool is this 1.044 Scottish pale with 25% flaked barley.

*As a starter batch for another Traquair House*

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/05/lets-brew-1945-william-younger-no-3.html?m=1

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The grist for my best/premium bitter as of now is
MO as base
Biscuit 4%
Crisp C-240 5%
Invert #3 6%
OG 1.042 FG 1.010
Might switch to my dry house yeast for my bitters as it has pretty good character but it does not attenuate as well as my current so I will probably up the OG a little bit. This with 5% flaked barley might get me a little chewier body. @DBhomebrew

 

[schmurf]

The grist for my best/premium bitter as of now is
MO as base
Biscuit 4%
Crisp C-240 5%
Invert #3 6%
OG 1.042 FG 1.010
Might switch to my dry house yeast for my bitters as it has pretty good character but it does not attenuate as well as my current so I will probably up the OG a little bit. This with 5% flaked barley might get me a little chewier body. @DBhomebrew

Do you really need the biscuit here you think?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Do you really need the biscuit here you think?

Maybe not, I added it to get a little toasty but not roasty depth in the flavour, I think I got a little more of a bready flavour compared to my bitters without it.

 

[cire]

So I've been brewing a few batches of bitters with invert, and I really like the flavour it contributes.
But I find it thins out the body a bit, and thought of adding something like 3-5% flaked barley to give it a little thicker mouthfeel, yay or nay?
Also been using Northdown hops a bit, I really like the flavour/aroma of them, kinda tastes like what it smells when you walk in a damp pineforest during autumn. Might try them with Bramling X 50/50 for flavour and aroma additions, anyone got any experience with this combo?

An absolute must. Next week's brew will be rather similar, but with more flaked barley,

The 1944 recipe above has uses 13 quarters of base malts, 2 quarters of flaked barley, 1/2 a quarter of DCL (malt extract), and 3 quarters of invert sugar (in solid form). The hops were probably Goldings in the kettle and Fuggles for dry hopping in the casks.

The grains for my 50 litre brew are already weighed and milled.
4.5 kg Pale Malt
1.5 kg Vienna Malt
0.75 kg Flaked Barley

Tomorrow the invert sugar will be produced from 1 kg of cane sugar with a small addition of Black Treacle with expected finished weight of ~ 1.3 kg. 0.25 kg Malt Extract (liquid) will also be added to the boil.

Hops are currently intended to be Northdown early and Bramling Cross late.

 

[kmarkstevens]

So I've been brewing a few batches of bitters with invert, and I really like the flavour it contributes.
But I find it thins out the body a bit, and thought of adding something like 3-5% flaked barley to give it a little thicker mouthfeel, yay or nay?
Also been using Northdown hops a bit, I really like the flavour/aroma of them, kinda tastes like what it smells when you walk in a damp pineforest during autumn. Might try them with Bramling X 50/50 for flavour and aroma additions, anyone got any experience with this combo?

Paging @Northern_Brewer, who IIRC prefers a 60% EKG and 40% BX combination. I have found the 60-40 split to be pretty tasty as well.

Here is a quote from NB: There's very few British-style beers that aren't improved with some Goldings as a dry hop IMO - even better if they're green hops, but I know how privileged I am to be able to say that... from the AK thread: (308) Your favourite AK recipe? | Page 2 | Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

You might try a couple of ounces of torrified wheat for a thicker mouth feel. I believe torrified wheat is more used in the North.

A member here was cleaning out his yeast bank and gifted me both Essex Ale and Manchester Yeast. I've re-cultured the Essex and done a first 3 gallon 1030 recipe (and shared out this flocculating yeast to the gang at the local HBS). Going to take a crack at re-vitalizing the Manchester Ale tonight. I picked up the mixings already 30 mjnutes ago for Tony's Pre-1970 Boddington's Clone Recipe (boakandbailey.com)

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I will ditch the wlp005 and use the english dry yeast I use as my house strain instead. It attenuates a bit lower and that combined with bumping up OG a little bit might make the next batch a little "fuller". If not I'll try a little flaked wheat or barley, that might come in handy in ales using higher amounts of invert as well.

 

[UdonPete]

Homemade English Ale (Grain) Recipe
Ingredients:

• 2.8 kg pale ale malt;
• 400 gr. light wheat malt;
• 300 grams of light caramel malt;

For hopping:

• 30 grams of East Kent Goldings hops (add 60 minutes before);
• 20 grams of Fuggle hops (put in 15 minutes);
• 20g East Kent Goldings hops (early boil)
• Yeast brand S-04, WLP002, 1028;
• Use glucose for carbonation, in an amount of 4 grams per liter.

Preparation:

1. Mix the entire amount of malt with 10 liters of filtered water heated to 73 degrees Celsius. The mash should have a temperature not higher and not lower than 68 degrees. Withstand 1 hour.
2. Pour boiling water into the mass, the temperature should rise to 71 ° C. Leave for 15 minutes.
3. Filter the grain, rinse the mash with hot water heated to 78 degrees. The result should be a total wort volume of 23.5 liters.
4. Boil the wort for 1 hour. Add hops according to the scheme.
5. Cool, add yeast. Leave for the main fermentation for 5 days, at a temperature not higher than 22 degrees, secondary fermentation is a week. When bottled, carbonate and place in a cool place for maturation.

Thank you very much

 

[bwible]

I've done yeast offs and Pub has always been the hands down winner amongst myself and the LHBS taste testers.

What do people think of First Gold vs EKG? I personally like First Gold mainly because it is pretty easy to get by the pound or half pound at a reasonable price here in the US. And I like the taste. Don't get an really obvious marmalade taste with Pub and First Gold. What's a good mash and ferment temperature to really bring out the marmalade?

(I have discovered that most C American hops taste skunked/cat piss/urinal cakes to me. Nasty. My go to's are First Gold, EKG, BX, N Brewer (UK, GER, US) & Tettnang GER).

I’ve been wrapped up in blonde ales and the quest for a decent psuedo lager recently so I haven’t brewed any bitters for awhile. I was loving First Gold the last couple times I did. I will have to do another one with all EKG again for comparison.

When I started doing bitters way back when Fuggles used to be my first choice.

 

[shoreman]

Now that we are cooling down in New England I’m thinking about putting some beers in Cubitainers again.

I’ve done about 4 batches in them with good success serving out a beer engine. I sold my beer engine a bit ago to simplify.

I’m going go with a gravity pour and wonder if anyone has come up with a good solution to collapse the top of the cubitainer as you pour. I did notice that some of Co2 fills that space and I’m going be putting 2.5 gallons in there to make it last a couple weeks.

 

[bwible]

I will ditch the wlp005 and use the english dry yeast I use as my house strain instead. It attenuates a bit lower and that combined with bumping up OG a little bit might make the next batch a little "fuller". If not I'll try a little flaked wheat or barley, that might come in handy in ales using higher amounts of invert as well.

I’ve been a liquid yeast guy pretty much from day 1. Because we were all told back then that the dry yeast available at the time wasn’t good. I’m coming around to the idea of trying dry yeast. Seems like people like Nottingham (Danstar?) What are other quality dry yeasts for bitter? I tend to line the numbers up for what the BJCP classifies as Special or Best Bitter. I understand there is no rhyme or reason and bitters are all over the place.

 

[Miraculix]

I’ve been a liquid yeast guy pretty much from day 1. Because we were all told back then that the dry yeast available at the time wasn’t good. I’m coming around to the idea of trying dry yeast. Seems like people like Nottingham (Danstar?) What are other quality dry yeasts for bitter? I tend to line the numbers up for what the BJCP classifies as Special or Best Bitter. I understand there is no rhyme or reason and bitters are all over the place.

Best so far is clearly verdant IPA. Notti is ok but is really clean, so wouldn't be my choice if your are into expressive yeasts. Verdant really delivers that British character, I know of no other dry yeast that does and I tried nearly all of the British ones.

 

[bwible]

I’ve been looking at water chemistry and mash ph. I find when I enter these beers with only pale malt and crystal in Bru’n Water, I’m coming up with mash ph 5.7, even after Gypsum and other additions. I haven’t ever heard of British breweries adjusting their mash with acid or acid malt? Is anybody doing that?

 

[Miraculix]

I’ve been looking at water chemistry and mash ph. I find when I enter these beers with only pale malt and crystal in Bru’n Water, I’m coming up with mash ph 5.7, even after Gypsum and other additions. I haven’t ever heard of British breweries adjusting their mash with acid or acid malt? Is anybody doing that?

1-2% of the grist as acidualted malt does the job for me for paler beers.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I’ve been a liquid yeast guy pretty much from day 1. Because we were all told back then that the dry yeast available at the time wasn’t good. I’m coming around to the idea of trying dry yeast. Seems like people like Nottingham (Danstar?) What are other quality dry yeasts for bitter?

Whilst dry yeasts have got a lot better, British strains are one area where they still generally lag behind what's available elsewhere. Verdant seems to be a significant step up on the others, although Notty and S-04 do get used by a lot of small breweries here.

I’ve been looking at water chemistry and mash ph. I find when I enter these beers with only pale malt and crystal in Bru’n Water, I’m coming up with mash ph 5.7, even after Gypsum and other additions. I haven’t ever heard of British breweries adjusting their mash with acid or acid malt? Is anybody doing that?

Acid malt only exists to let our friends with Mutti issues contort themselves with acid additions that comply with the Reinheitsgebot - British brewers ignore such nonsense and use AMS/CRS (a HCl/H2SO4 blend) as God intended. A bit of CRS is completely normal - see these articles from one of the main providers of technical services to British brewers :
https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/technical_article_category/ph-values/

 

[kmarkstevens]

I have to try Verdant. I've got too many yeasties in the bank and trying to winnow down the herd.

I love Notty. It's prolly my "if you could only have one yeast forever yeast." Has a wide temperature range, flocculates well, clean, makes a good cyser, easy to work with, etc.

FYI, anyone that wants to try the vault strain WLP022 Essex Ale yeast, then ping White Labs. It's in production and some is still in stock. I signed up for two vials 6 or 9 months ago as my local HBS dude loves this yeast. Now, go figure, a homebrewtalk member cleaning out his yeast bank gifted me Essex ale and Manchester yeast slants. I recultured the Essex pretty much the day I figured out that White Labs had gone into production. Anyhoo, White Labs takes a vault strain into production when there are ~200 orders, but white labs actually makes more than 200 so whenever a vault strain is in production, there should be an opportunity to order.

 

[UdonPete]

I’ve been a liquid yeast guy pretty much from day 1. Because we were all told back then that the dry yeast available at the time wasn’t good. I’m coming around to the idea of trying dry yeast. Seems like people like Nottingham (Danstar?) What are other quality dry yeasts for bitter? I tend to line the numbers up for what the BJCP classifies as Special or Best Bitter. I understand there is no rhyme or reason and bitters are all over the place.

London

 

[shoreman]

I’ve heard a few people mention that Verdant ipa takes a while to clear up - is that true? It’s listed as medium to high floc.

Maybe adjuncts?

I have a packet and will be using it soon, but what I really like about s-04 is the clarity- super important to me in my English-inspired ales.

 

[Miraculix]

I’ve heard a few people mention that Verdant ipa takes a while to clear up - is that true? It’s listed as medium to high floc.

Maybe adjuncts?

I have a packet and will be using it soon, but what I really like about s-04 is the clarity- super important to me in my English-inspired ales.

It clears up beautifully without a cold crash. It takes a bit longer then s04, but s04 is the dry yeast clearing champ, so it's a bit unfair to compare with this one imo.

Best is, the yeast tends to stick to the bottom, once fully cleared.

 

[shoreman]

Have you repitched that yeast yet? I’d like to use on a few consecutive brews and wonder about any concerns or if it changes character.

 

[Miraculix]

Have you repitched that yeast yet? I’d like to use on a few consecutive brews and wonder about any concerns or if it changes character.

Haven't done it but wouldn't hesitate doing it. Only thing is, it develops a MASSIVE Kräusen, so make sure that you have a huge headspace for it, especially if you are planning to throw the wort directly on the yeast cake. Seriously, I never saw a Kräusen like that before.