English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[crusader1612]

That's depressing. I haven't been to the England in about 15 years. How has the pub and beer scene changed? You hear horror sites of pubs closing, but you also hear about craft brewing evolving, including more experimental styles. Cambridge in 1993 is where I learned that BMC isn't really beer.

Here's my pale mild recipe. There were a half dozen attempts before I narrowed it down to this:

3 gal batch

4# Golden Promise
3oz Crisp pale chocolate
3oz Bairds Carastan
3oz Flaked Oats

Goldings 9g @ 60 min
9g @ 20 min

West Yorkshire yeast

Cold brewed coffee concentrate goes good in this too.

Love love love that yeast.

 

[Derp]

I brew bitters all the time and last night I threw together this recipe. I guess it's not too far off from the others that I've brewed. Any thoughts or suggestions? (11.5-gallon batch)

21 lbs Pale Ale Malt
1.5 lbs Wheat Malt
12.0 oz Crystal, English Dark
4.0 oz Roasted Barley
2.00 oz Challenger [7.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.75 oz EKG [4.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.75 oz Fuggle [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469)

Calcium 91
Magnesium 7
Sodium 23
Sulfate 150
Chloride 97

 

[crusader1612]

I brew bitters all the time and last night I threw together this recipe. I guess it's not too far off from the others that I've brewed. Any thoughts or suggestions? (11.5-gallon batch)

21 lbs Pale Ale Malt
1.5 lbs Wheat Malt
12.0 oz Crystal, English Dark
4.0 oz Roasted Barley
2.00 oz Challenger [7.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.75 oz EKG [4.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.75 oz Fuggle [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469)

Calcium 91
Magnesium 7
Sodium 23
Sulfate 150
Chloride 97

Projected IBU and OG/FG?
good choice of yeast.

 

[Derp]

Projected IBU and OG/FG?
good choice of yeast.

35 IBUs and 1.053, although the last few brews have come in 2 or 3 points low.

I love 1469. I've been using it and 1318 London Ale III for most of my English styles of late.

 

[crusader1612]

35 IBUs and 1.053, although the last few brews have come in 2 or 3 points low.

I love 1469. I've been using it and 1318 London Ale III for most of my English styles of late.

sweet looks good enough to me.

FYI both 1318 and 1469 work well on NEIPA's too (If your into Hoppy beers of course)

 

[Hanglow]

For a bitter that big I'd bump the IBUs up a bit, although that's just personal preference.

also you could mineralise your water more, again personal preference

I'd also dry hop it, say 2-3oz of ekg/fuggle/target etc

 

[Derp]

For a bitter that big I'd bump the IBUs up a bit, although that's just personal preference.

also you could mineralise your water more, again personal preference

I'd also dry hop it, say 2-3oz of ekg/fuggle/target etc

I bumped the IBUs up to 42, added 2 oz of EKG dry hops and adjusted the water to:

Calcium 115
Magnesium 7
Sodium 30
Sulfate 203
Chloride 100

Your suggestions were all things that I'd been debating in my mind, so we'll see how it turns out.

Cheers!

 

[JKaranka]

I bumped the IBUs up to 42, added 2 oz of EKG dry hops and adjusted the water to:

Calcium 115
Magnesium 7
Sodium 30
Sulfate 203
Chloride 100

Your suggestions were all things that I'd been debating in my mind, so we'll see how it turns out.

Cheers!

Looks good. I enjoy a fairly snappy bitterness in a bitter, with some slight dry hop.

 

[deere322]

I've been a big fan of Ron Pattison's blog called "Shut up about Barclay Perkins". Loads of brewing history from across the pond and tons of great recipes. I've probably brewed about 5-6 of them with excellent results.

The most recent one I brewed was this- http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/11/lets-brew-1954-tennants-gold-label.html

1954 Tennant's Gold Label Barleywine.
(posts of my brew day are on page 136 of this thread)

So I thought I'd share the recipe after having a few nips off of my 2.5 gallon cornie which has progressed into a glorious beer ringing in at 9.4% after only being 4 weeks old.
After kegging and bottling half (bottles will sit for a year and keg will be drank within the next few months, maybe, if I can keep my grubby hand off of it.)
It bodes well after being outside in subzero weather and pulling a generous sample to warm the cockles.

1954 Tennant's Gold Label

All grain
6 gallon batch
Boil size 11 gallons
Mash 90 min. @ 149F
Boil length 3 hours
OG 1.110
FG 1.029
63 IBU
9.4% abv

15 lbs 7.3 oz Maris Otter
4 lbs 10.6 oz Flaked Maize
3.9 oz Acid Malt (helps the mash I guess but not necessary)
2 lbs 7.3 oz Invert #1 homemade
2.06 oz Fuggles 120 min 4.1%AA
.94 oz EKG 90 min 4.5% AA
.94 oz EKG 60 min
.94 oz EKG 30 min
Whirlfloc
Yeast Nutrient
Oxygen 1 min.

I used 7.9 gallons of my hard water from the hose bibb outside for my mash. 5 gallons of RO for the sparge.
Achieved 11 gallons for the 3 hour boil.
Chilled wort from 212F to pitching temp of 56F in 15 minutes.
Pitched a 5 day old slurry of S04 and let it ferment for one month.
Kegged 2.5 gallons and bottled 12-375 ml bottles, 6-12 oz bottles and 1- 22 oz bottle.

Sample from the fermenter was fruity, booze, orange-like jammy marmalade, thick malt back bone, bitter and dry.

After 4 weeks the booziness subsided. Aroma of fruity nail polish, slight booze, malt and corn. Taste is extremely smooth, corn comes out but with a depth of malt mixed in, fruit, orange jam, initially sweet in the finish but changes quick to a bitter dryness leaving your lips smacking for more. Very warming in the face.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1484098689.916878.jpg

 

[JKaranka]

That looks great

 

[z-bob]

I'm going to brew an ESB this weekend to use up the last of a bag of pale ale malt, and hop with Fuggle and Willamette. Which should I use for bittering and which for aroma? I know they're closely related, and both are dual-purpose hops, so will it make any difference?

At first I was planning to use the Fuggle for bittering since the Brits do that and use EKG for aroma. Then I thought it might taste more British-ish to add the Fuggle late for the aroma. I don't know if I have USA Fuggle or UK Fuggle (it probably says on the package)

Here's the grain bill, and I'll be using S-04 yeast:
American pale ale malt, 3°L, 78%
Corn grits, 11%
Crystal 60°L, 9%
Special B, 150°L, 2%

 

[Hanglow]

St. Austell Tribute is a good beer with late williamette, although it uses it in conjunction with styrian goldings which are fairly different from fuggle even if they are descended from it

I'd use the Willamette late or blend them both. Fuggle can be good in high quantities too, I think Adnams did a beer called Extra that was highly hopped with fuggles, it was a lovely drop.


That's quite a lot of crystal too, although if you like that then go right ahead You'll need to cook the grits too, apologies if you know that already

 

[JKaranka]

I'm going to brew an ESB this weekend to use up the last of a bag of pale ale malt, and hop with Fuggle and Willamette. Which should I use for bittering and which for aroma? I know they're closely related, and both are dual-purpose hops, so will it make any difference?

At first I was planning to use the Fuggle for bittering since the Brits do that and use EKG for aroma. Then I thought it might taste more British-ish to add the Fuggle late for the aroma. I don't know if I have USA Fuggle or UK Fuggle (it probably says on the package)

Here's the grain bill, and I'll be using S-04 yeast:
American pale ale malt, 3°L, 78%
Corn grits, 11%
Crystal 60°L, 9%
Special B, 150°L, 2%

I'd remove the special b and reduce the crystal. If you want more colour add an ounce of a roast malt like chocolate or patent.

 

[z-bob]

Thanks for the reply. Part of this experiment is to see whether I really need to cook the grits -- I'm not using normal grits, I'm using nixtamalized corn flour (masa harina.) It's already cooked and I'm hoping it's fully gelatinized. If not, my mash efficiency will be terrible and I'll know not to do that again, but it shouldn't ruin the beer.

What is a reasonable amount of medium crystal? 5%-6%? This is not really a style I'm familiar with. I was just thinking "half a pound ought to be about right" without taking into account I'm only making a small batch. (about 3 gallons) I forgot to scale it.

 

[z-bob]

I'd remove the special b and reduce the crystal. If you want more colour add an ounce of a roast malt like chocolate or patent.

Does this look better? The only fixed amount is the 70 oz of pale malt, because that's how much I have. (I could supplement it with some pils malt if I have to, but I'd rather not do that)

FERMENTABLES:
70 oz - American - Pale Ale (81.9%)
10 oz - Grits (11.7%)
4.5 oz - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (5.3%)
1 oz - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (1.2%)

 

[trav77]

What is a reasonable amount of medium crystal? 5%-6%? This is not really a style I'm familiar with. I was just thinking "half a pound ought to be about right" without taking into account I'm only making a small batch. (about 3 gallons) I forgot to scale it.

10% medium crystal in an ESB is perfectly acceptable IMO. Special B maybe isn't as traditional but if you dig that dark raisin flavour it gives then go for it.

 

[z-bob]

I think I'm going to go back to the original recipe, but dial back the crystal 60 to about 5.4 ounces (use 1/3 pound instead of 1/2.) I'm using the Special B like it was crystal 150, and at 2%, I don't think there will be any noticeable difference. I could be wrong...

And split the Fuggle; use half of it at 60 minutes and half at 30, then finish with Willamette. Depending on how well the grits convert, the ABV will be somewhere between 5 and 5.5%, and the IBU's around 40.

 

[JKaranka]

Does this look better? The only fixed amount is the 70 oz of pale malt, because that's how much I have. (I could supplement it with some pils malt if I have to, but I'd rather not do that)

FERMENTABLES:
70 oz - American - Pale Ale (81.9%)
10 oz - Grits (11.7%)
4.5 oz - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (5.3%)
1 oz - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (1.2%)

This looks good. I guess this thread follows British strong bitters (such as Fullers' ESB), which I think tend to be less malty and dark than the American take on them. I've not seen any American strong bitters here in the UK, but the recipes posted often are dark and not particularly bitter.

With crystal malt quantities. You don't need it in a strong bitter. Lost do use some (2-5%) is quite typical, but you could use amber malt instead, or brewers' caramel, or a medium coloured invert.

 

[z-bob]

This looks good. I guess this thread follows British strong bitters (such as Fullers' ESB), which I think tend to be less malty and dark than the American take on them. I've not seen any American strong bitters here in the UK, but the recipes posted often are dark and not particularly bitter.

With crystal malt quantities. You don't need it in a strong bitter. Lost do use some (2-5%) is quite typical, but you could use amber malt instead, or brewers' caramel, or a medium coloured invert.

Very informative, thank you. What about a small amount of brown malt? (just curious)

What I'm going for is malty and bitter (the balance tipped towards bitter), but not heavy. As long as it's drinkable the color doesn't matter much, but amber-to-copper would be nice.

 

[JKaranka]

Brown is mainly for porters and stouts in my book but you could replace 1/2lb of amber by 1/4lb of brown. Roughly. Lots of people don't like it in pale ales such as bitters.

 

[JKaranka]

Post and comments waxing lyrical about formative beers in the early 70s. Gives a good idea of what British beer was like in its context.

 

[z-bob]

I was supposed to brew today, but got interrupted before I started (typical on weekends) So I'll grind the grain and get everything ready this evening to brew Monday or Tuesday night when I get home from work.

I decided to nix the Special B. I'll use it in something else later. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[z-bob]

It's me again; I just thought of something.

A lot of recipes and beer kits I see online for British-style ESB's call for typically 9 lbs of MO, 1 pound of medium crystal, and some combination of Fuggle/EKG/Styrian Golding. I wonder if that much crystal malt is because we Americans drink our beer ice cold. It would be too heavy and sweet at cellar temperature, but cold it might be about right?

 

[JKaranka]

It's me again; I just thought of something.

A lot of recipes and beer kits I see online for British-style ESB's call for typically 9 lbs of MO, 1 pound of medium crystal, and some combination of Fuggle/EKG/Styrian Golding. I wonder if that much crystal malt is because we Americans drink our beer ice cold. It would be too heavy and sweet at cellar temperature, but cold it might be about right?

Hadn't thought about that! I keep bottles outside the fridge and put them in the fridge for half an hour before drinking. I have some all the time in the fridge but I tend to take them out for a bit before drinking. I like them cooler than cellar, around 8c for most styles. They'll warm up to 12-14c as I drink anyway.

 

[JKaranka]

Post and comments waxing lyrical about formative beers in the early 70s. Gives a good idea of what British beer was like in its context.

I forgot the.link
http://zythophile.co.uk/2017/01/21/the-formative-beers-of-my-teenage-years/

 

[secondbase]

Brewed Jamil's mild using 1318 and it turned out swimmingly. It's a little hefty at 4.1% but very flavorful. This is my favorite yeast for a mild!

 

[Hanglow]

Another reason for the more crystal malt is that most bottles you'd get in the US would be a bit older and therefor sweeter, so any clone recipes would try and get that character, also most export british bitters are also pasteurised which often adds a boiled sweet character to the beers too. I don't think they do well pastuerised to be honest, most bitters/pale ales/milds etc should be brewed and drunk within 8 weeks, not the year long best before date that you find on bottles. Some stronger and darker ones do do better though

 

[JKaranka]

Brewing an imperial brown stout for next year: several pounds of brown and amber malt, a few ounces of patent malt. 100+ estimated IBU and ~30SRM.

Six weeks later, just bottled. I didn't trust the FG: 1.030, and worry it will try to gain a few points in the bottle, so I gave it a very light priming. 8% abv if it doesn't move. Tastes a bit on the sweet side considering the 120IBU. Quite portery. With an OG of 1.085 I'd class it as a double brown stout.

 

[crusader1612]

Brewing an imperial brown stout for next year: several pounds of brown and amber malt, a few ounces of patent malt. 100+ estimated IBU and ~30SRM.

what in the world is a brown stout??

 

[JKaranka]

what in the world is a brown stout??

Early name for stout, before it became really that black (like Imperial Brown Stout, IBSt, the original Russian Imperial Stout). To be fair, I use it loosely for a 1800-1850 type stout. Less patent malt and more brown malt, high OG, high IBU. You end up with around 30SRM of heavy goodness.

They are also making a come-back with breweries like The Kernel picking them up...