There we go, added the recipe here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7526188
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7526188
English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?
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Anyone tried brewing with peas? Read the zythophile article again. Thinking of one of those 17/18th century ales: 80% pale / amber malt, 10% peas, 5% oats, 5% wheat. Must be a fun mash. Could try with a farmhouse style yeast. Relatively low hopping (OG 1.065, 40 IBU for something light? or OG 1.090, 60 IBU for something more realistic?).
That' a new one 
I assume you use dried split peas?
Come to think about it I've thought about roasting chick peas in the past and adding them as a speciality grain, but never got round to it. The only non grain mash adjunct I've used in the past was pumpkin.
I assume you use dried split peas? Come to think about it I've thought about roasting chick peas in the past and adding them as a speciality grain, but never got round to it. The only non grain mash adjunct I've used in the past was pumpkin.
Yeah, split peas! :-D Could do a blend between a British strong ale and some sort of Belgian farmhouse / enkel.
Maybe I should go easier and try to clone my local mild (bottle version at 4.1%)...
Brewery says:
"Dark 3.5% abv
Our award winning Dark
One of our most popular and famous beers, Dark was first brewed in the 1920s and is still award winning today.
Crystal, chocolate and brown malts create the smooth treacle coloured beer. The recipe, unchanged since the 1920s won the Worlds Best Dark Mild at the World Beer Awards in 2011 proving the longevity of Dark."
Aiming at OG of 1.041 (bottle version is stronger) for 5.5 US gallons with:
6.25lb Maris Otter (they don't use it, more like Pearl or something)
12oz Crystal 60L
8oz Brown Malt
6oz Flaked Maize
6oz Chocolate Malt
2/3oz Challenger @ 60m.
Needs about half an oz of Brewers' Caramel to bring the colour from 20SRM to 35+SRM.
Maybe I should go easier and try to clone my local mild (bottle version at 4.1%)...
Brewery says:
"Dark 3.5% abv
Our award winning Dark
One of our most popular and famous beers, Dark was first brewed in the 1920s and is still award winning today.
Crystal, chocolate and brown malts create the smooth treacle coloured beer. The recipe, unchanged since the 1920s won the Worlds Best Dark Mild at the World Beer Awards in 2011 proving the longevity of Dark."
Aiming at OG of 1.041 (bottle version is stronger) for 5.5 US gallons with:
6.25lb Maris Otter (they don't use it, more like Pearl or something)
12oz Crystal 60L
8oz Brown Malt
6oz Flaked Maize
6oz Chocolate Malt
2/3oz Challenger @ 60m.
Needs about half an oz of Brewers' Caramel to bring the colour from 20SRM to 35+SRM.
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Mmm that looks tasty.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
My next English brew is this AG from the HBTF recipe thread, but I can't tell you whose without re-checking.
All-Grain English Nut Brown Ale
________________________________________
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012
IBU: 22.7
Boiling Time: 60 min.
Color: 16.3 SRM
Primary Fermentation: 7 days
Secondary Fermentation: 14 days
9 lb Pale Malt (2-Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.6 %
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 8.5 %
1 lb Flaked Oats (1.0 SRM) Grain 8.5 %
0.5 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.1 %
1 oz Fuggles [AA 4.5%] (60 min) 14.7 IBU
1 oz East Kent Goldings [AA 5%] (15 min) 8.1 IBU
1 Pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale
Single Infusion mash, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Mash Grain Weight: 11.75 lb
Sparge Temperature: 168F
Sparge Water: 4.2 gal
Mash In: 14.7 qt of water at 166F, mash @ 154F 60 min
** Based on 70% brewhouse efficiency
All-Grain English Nut Brown Ale
________________________________________
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012
IBU: 22.7
Boiling Time: 60 min.
Color: 16.3 SRM
Primary Fermentation: 7 days
Secondary Fermentation: 14 days
9 lb Pale Malt (2-Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.6 %
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 8.5 %
1 lb Flaked Oats (1.0 SRM) Grain 8.5 %
0.5 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.1 %
1 oz Fuggles [AA 4.5%] (60 min) 14.7 IBU
1 oz East Kent Goldings [AA 5%] (15 min) 8.1 IBU
1 Pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale
Single Infusion mash, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Mash Grain Weight: 11.75 lb
Sparge Temperature: 168F
Sparge Water: 4.2 gal
Mash In: 14.7 qt of water at 166F, mash @ 154F 60 min
** Based on 70% brewhouse efficiency
I'd be astonished if the recipe really hadn't changed since the 1920's. In fact I can see that it. In 1951 the OG was 1033.9, whereas more recently it's been 1035 or 1035.5.
That's fairly minimal tweaking in 60 years. I wonder what the OG was before 1930. Somewhere in the 1040-1045 ballpark? To me it would be surprising enough if it always contained Brown and Chocolate malt.
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Is this Ron? Thanks for dropping in! For the sake of argument, could be the same recipe with a slightly better efficiency I suppose.
I agree that it probably has changed at least a bit in that time. The "has withstood the test of time" bit is good fun and marketing though. Why the flaked maize in this if they don't list it? Are you tasting it or giving a guess as a way to dry it out more?
I'd expect it in an ingredient list from the 1920s. Either flaked maize or some invert sugar. It does have a hint of both roasted malt and a hint of dark fruit.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't modern Brown Malt a relatively new thing? I didn't think that it was made in the 1920s at all, at least not under that name - AFAIK, until about ten years ago, the term 'brown malt' always referred to the straw-fired torrified malt used as the base malt in Porters prior to the 1780s, which slowly declined in use after the introduction of coke-fired pale ale malt, then vanished outright after the development of patent malt made it unnecessary for coloring. What we call 'brown malt' today is pretty much a homebrewing specialty item, unrelated to the older brown malt, being basically a higher-kilned version of amber malt - and like amber, it has no diastatic power to speak of, and hence cannot be used as a base malt.
Also, based on this agricultural website, I had the impression that most if not all of the modern pale ale malts made in the UK today are of barley cultivars developed since the end of WWII (I gather that the main cultivars right now are Concerto for spring barley and Cassata for winter, with the homebrewer favorites Maris Otter, and Golden Promise almost exclusively grown for the home and craft brewing markets - I have heard that no mainstream commercial brewers in the UK still use them, but I don't know how true that is). Apparently one older winter variety, Pearl, is still grown, but I have no idea if any is getting malted in any significant quantity. Whether this would be considered significant, I am not sure, but it does cast more doubt on the 'same recipe for 95 years' claim.
Hiya! It didn't always refer to the early Brown malt. It's been continuously used as a malt in Britain but it saw a lot of evolution in the 19th century. I'd be keen on some 1850s blow malt myself (Brown was blown like popcorn for a good few years). You can see brown popping up in 20th century recipes quite a lot but not blown anymore. I'd expect the 1920s one to be fairly similar to the modern one. Just to clarify, modern Brown malt isn't just a homebrew fad, it is a malt with a long history that is very different through the 18th, 19th and 20th century.
You can search in Ron's blog for more.
Btw, Amber malt is even more difficult to pin down. Modern Amber is very different from most diastatic Amber malt of the 18/19th centuries. Plus each malting would call different amber things 'amber'. An example was Guinness, where British brewers visiting the brewery would comment on how different their Amber and Black Patent malts were.
Yeah, it was probably somewhere in the low 1040's in the 1920's.
Well, then, thank you for setting the record straight. Apparently the issue is more complicated than I thought, but then I was mostly going by Terry Foster's descriptions of 18th century porters vs 19th century ones.
A reference about blown Brown malt:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/brown-malt-follow-up.html
Malts are cool and underrated
deere322
Former Sloper
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/07/lets-brew-wednesday-1952-lees-best-mild.html
Just kegged this one up, tasty sample right out of the fermenter.
OG 1.037
FG 1.004
4.4% abv
Used the London Ale III yeast. Very odd aromas when it was fermenting and was a bit worried that I may have got a funky yeast pack, but alas, don't worry...yada yada yada.
Excited to drink it two weeks from now.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1461367775.027979.jpg
Just kegged this one up, tasty sample right out of the fermenter.
OG 1.037
FG 1.004
4.4% abv
Used the London Ale III yeast. Very odd aromas when it was fermenting and was a bit worried that I may have got a funky yeast pack, but alas, don't worry...yada yada yada.
Excited to drink it two weeks from now.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1461367775.027979.jpg
I remember checking that recipe many times. How roasty is it?
I had a very interesting experience when asked to do the article about Brewer's Friend's one gallon AG porter kit. Turned out an ale with the usual color, tan head & really good flavor. Very smooth, sessionable...yet rich wonderful flavor. The grains were mixed & no exact grain list was given, however.I'd say it's a nicely sessionable, barely though, of a robust porter. It'd be great with some vanilla bean infusion.
deere322
Former Sloper
deere322
Former Sloper
Rather tasty as a matter of fact
Just bottled this one into champagne bottles. It's been going three and a half months with brettanomyces C. I had a tad more volume and a bit less efficiency so ended up with an OG of 1.065.
The bottling sample was surprisingly clean. Dry, just a vague hint of pineapple. No molasses or sherry notes yet. Slight feeling of sweetness even if it was pretty dry and crisp, probably because of the flavour of the invert sugar. Definitively didn't taste the aprox., 60 IBU its meant to have. Got high hopes for it once it funkifies for a couple of months.
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Sounds pretty nice to me, what kind of style are you aiming for?
I'm brewing a gruit today, but using my last two years of English beer brewing experience for the malt bill. I've done a couple of gruits before, so I'm relatively confident in this.
4 gallons
6 lb. Maris Otter
.5 lb. Crisp Crystal 77L
1 oz. Roasted Barley
8 oz. raw honey @ flameout
Yarrow, Marsh Rosemary, Sweet Gale, and my own addition to the traditional gruit herbs: Hyssop. These will be done in three additions, dialing back on the more mossy herbs and up on the floral for flameout. A bit higher ratio of crystal than I typically go for, but I think a bit of extra sweetness may help those who aren't used to this kind of beverage. Smelling pretty fantastic right now if I do say so myself!
I'm brewing a gruit today, but using my last two years of English beer brewing experience for the malt bill. I've done a couple of gruits before, so I'm relatively confident in this.
4 gallons
6 lb. Maris Otter
.5 lb. Crisp Crystal 77L
1 oz. Roasted Barley
8 oz. raw honey @ flameout
Yarrow, Marsh Rosemary, Sweet Gale, and my own addition to the traditional gruit herbs: Hyssop. These will be done in three additions, dialing back on the more mossy herbs and up on the floral for flameout. A bit higher ratio of crystal than I typically go for, but I think a bit of extra sweetness may help those who aren't used to this kind of beverage. Smelling pretty fantastic right now if I do say so myself!
I let Sacc. work for 6 days before adding the Brett. I've left it for 3 & 1/2 months working with the Brett. and bottled it with a small priming sugar addition (about half of what I'd usually go for). I'm going to crack one or two in the meantime, but mainly thinking about drinking around Christmas.
It's a stock ale (a bit like a KK used to be). The closest in the BJCP 2015 would be Old Ale (17B). The numbers and ingredients actually seem to fit with the BJCP guidelines, apart from the drier finish. I just think BJCP is a bit funny saying the lowest FG in an old ale aged with bugs is 1.015.
Drove to Belgium (almost 8 hours to get to Bruges ferry included). XX Bitter is like a historic British pale ale having brewed some. Maybe darker than all pale with some sugar but bitterness is good.
I had a bottle of that very fresh a few months ago and I think I got a bad bottle It was very bitter as intended but completely TCP laden and very thin. I also had their Saison de dottignies, which was pretty good
It was very bitter as intended but completely TCP laden and very thin. I also had their Saison de dottignies, which was pretty good
deere322
Former Sloper
So I've been using Fuggles quite a bit lately and need to start using my lb of EKG I have in the freeze.
I created this recipe on a whim and would like some critiques please.
3 By Gold Bitter
7.5 lb GP
1lb lyles golden
1.5 oz Goldings 60
.5 oz Goldings 15
.35 oz Goldings 0
London ale III
Mash 152
I created this recipe on a whim and would like some critiques please.
3 By Gold Bitter
7.5 lb GP
1lb lyles golden
1.5 oz Goldings 60
.5 oz Goldings 15
.35 oz Goldings 0
London ale III
Mash 152
I like it. I'd reduce the golden syrup to 1/2lb at that gravity. I don't like the syrup flavour as much as home made invert. It's quite easily recognized in the beer.
Trying sample bottle of old ale tomorrow
OK, first tasting of the KK / stock ale / old ale. I added some extra sugar to this bottle to get it carbed in two weeks.
Pours a clear amber / light copper. Completely clear. Good carbonation. Head is pale tan and dissipates fairly quickly (couple of minutes). Nose has Brett aromas: hay, some citrus, that sort-of-acidic sniff, followed by a pack of malt and caramel. There is, however, little evidence of Brett when tasting it. It's fairly bitter with some wintery orange zest. Plenty of caramel and toffee, veering on aggressive malt flavour. It's quite an interesting blend of bitterness and caramel flavours that suggest sweetness. Mouthfeel is truly oily and thicker than what I expected. The finish begins slightly malty and then becomes drier.
Things I've learnt:
a) Brett C. isn't very aggressive and needs time (I'll leave the other bottles for after summer)
b) You can get quite a lot of caramel flavour without any crystal malts, just driving with with darker invert sugars.
c) It's surprisingly similar to a standard British strong ale at 3 months of aging.
d) I like beers with less body.
Pours a clear amber / light copper. Completely clear. Good carbonation. Head is pale tan and dissipates fairly quickly (couple of minutes). Nose has Brett aromas: hay, some citrus, that sort-of-acidic sniff, followed by a pack of malt and caramel. There is, however, little evidence of Brett when tasting it. It's fairly bitter with some wintery orange zest. Plenty of caramel and toffee, veering on aggressive malt flavour. It's quite an interesting blend of bitterness and caramel flavours that suggest sweetness. Mouthfeel is truly oily and thicker than what I expected. The finish begins slightly malty and then becomes drier.
Things I've learnt:
a) Brett C. isn't very aggressive and needs time (I'll leave the other bottles for after summer)
b) You can get quite a lot of caramel flavour without any crystal malts, just driving with with darker invert sugars.
c) It's surprisingly similar to a standard British strong ale at 3 months of aging.
d) I like beers with less body.
Brett C is well known to be more prominent in aroma than flavor. My Brett Bitter is 2 years old and this is still the case. Same for my Brett Old Ale. I haven't tried my Brett BW in over a year, but same there too.
You'll get more as it ages, pineapple and hay lines up with my experience. Nowhere near as aggressive as other Brett strains.
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
If it were me I would flip the 15 minute and flameout addition, and perhaps add more to the flameout addition unless you're dryhopping. But that's just my taste, I'm sure it will be great either way. I've never used Lyle's golden syrup as I make my own invert, but I would agree with cutting back on that too.
Yes. I just didn't expect it to be so gentle! It will work out well if it ages another 6-9 months. Specially if it becomes a bit more dry and maybe just a hint acidic. To be fair, last night I had one old porter that must have got a Brett C infection at bottling time and apart from gushing it was really tasty and complex. If this heads in the same direction it will be a keeper. Thinking of brewing one every January for the following Xmas.
Right now is quite fun to have a beer that smells a bit like a Rodenbach but tastes more like Fullers' OBE.
Have you tried blending Brett C with another slightly more assertive strain? Not thinking of anything super-funked but just about slightly more aggressive as to speed up the aging.
deere322
Former Sloper
Here is what I ended up with on brew day with a few tweaks.
I did however stick with a lb of Lyle's only because it's the second time using it and wanted to experience myself if that amount was too much for my tastes. I do appreciate the input on the Lyle's though, trial and error I guess..
3x Gold Bitter
7 lbs 8.0 oz Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 88.2 %
1 lbs Lyle's Golden Syrup (0.0 SRM) Extract 11.8 %
42.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 28.0 IBUs
1.20 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining
28.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9.2 IBUs
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining -
14.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Steep 0.0 min Hop 0.0 IBUs
London Ale III
Target OG 1.040 Actual OG 1.044
Target FG 1.010 Actual FG soon
Taget ABV 3.9%
IBU 37.2
Mash In Add 2.81 gal of water at 167.1 F 152.0 F 60 min
Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 5.60gal) of 168.0 F water
60 min. boil
I am anticipating a quick ferment as it went off for 3 days and has all but slowed to no action in my BMB (big mouth bubbler). Will most likely keg in a few days and carb it off. Might be grain to glass in 9 days.
Will post a final pic after conditioned sample.
Thanks for the input gents.
cyberbackpacker
Well-Known Member
I think I've found my next recipe; today's Barclay Perkins post has a very intriguing/tasty looking 1837 Whitbread Mild.
16.50 pounds Pale Malt
5 ounces of EKG
Whitbread Yeast
Yes please!!!
16.50 pounds Pale Malt
5 ounces of EKG
Whitbread Yeast
Yes please!!!
I think I've found my next recipe; today's Barclay Perkins post has a very intriguing/tasty looking 1837 Whitbread Mild.
16.50 pounds Pale Malt
5 ounces of EKG
Whitbread Yeast
Yes please!!!
You know that will work out! Btw, the interesting bit is how to get that 55% attenuation or such. You could aim at 65% attenuation but Whitbread will easily give you 75%.
cyberbackpacker
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that need some experimentation. I thought about maybe stopping ferm early once it hits desired attenuation, and then add priming sand such with hopes that keeping it at cellar temp will prevent it from continuing to finish.
I shall see!
I shall see!
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