English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[JKaranka]

Attenuation and flocculation are worse than other British yeasts but esters and overall mouthfeel are good. As far as you take that into account in your design (e.g., I always use sugar with Windsor) and process (e.g., clear with gelatin and cold crash) you are ok.

 

[Hanglow]

I've just won some styrian cascades now so will be able to compare them with the british ones The NZ ones I had a couple of years ago were great iirc

Would be great to compare a base beer made at the same time with the different varieties

 

[Qhrumphf]

Attenuation and flocculation are worse than other British yeasts but esters and overall mouthfeel are good. As far as you take that into account in your design (e.g., I always use sugar with Windsor) and process (e.g., clear with gelatin and cold crash) you are ok.

Usually the nice thing about low attenuating yeasts (002/1968 for example) is that they drop bright very easily. Windsor, in my experience, attenuates worse, almost always seeming underattenuated, even with sugar use, and doesn't flocc easily. The esters are alright, but I prefer others. I see no reason to ever, ever use it.

I've just won some styrian cascades now so will be able to compare them with the british ones The NZ ones I had a couple of years ago were great iirc

Would be great to compare a base beer made at the same time with the different varieties

Sounds like someone has a lot of brewing to do FOR SCIENCE

 

[JKaranka]

Usually the nice thing about low attenuating yeasts (002/1968 for example) is that they drop bright very easily. Windsor, in my experience, attenuates worse, almost always seeming underattenuated, even with sugar use, and doesn't flocc easily. The esters are alright, but I prefer others. I see no reason to ever, ever use it.



Sounds like someone has a lot of brewing to do FOR SCIENCE

I'd use it again if I wanted Brett C to have a feast in secondary fermentation!

 

[Hanglow]

Any recipe suggestions for this?

definitely include
3kg mild malt
Wyeast North western ale

Then I have some pale MO, dark crystal, amber/brown/black/rb etc, some english hops like pilgrim/phoenix/challenger/fuggle/ and some different stryians (bobek, celia, golding, ) Plus the usual sugars

Wanting to keep the hopping and OG down as I want to build up and reuse the yeast from this. would be a 23l batch

so 6.6lb of base mild malt and a 6 gallon batch for our metrically impaired friends


Or I could just do a starter and make something bigger. hmm

 

[JKaranka]

Half a kilo of MO, and 250g of each Amber malt and sugar to put together a fairly average bitter? Bitter with Challenger and finish with a blend of styrians (including a hop stand). Can't be that bad.

 

[JKaranka]

I was just thinking about making a very very earthy / dunky EIPA with some hops I've had hanging around.

5.5 US Gallons
OG 1.057, FG 1.010, 48IBU, 6SRM

10lb Maris Otter
1lb Flaked Maize

60m - 0.8oz Challenger (25IBU)
15m - 0.8oz Target (16IBU), 0.8oz Fuggles (6IBU)
Hop Stand - 2.5oz Fuggles
Dry Hop - 2.5oz Target

 

[Hanglow]

That looks nice

I've got flaked maize too come to think of it. And oat malt. And torrified wheat. Need to use this stuff up as I have another order turning up tomorrow or wednesday

 

[JKaranka]

We can make sister brews! You could give a go at Challenger / Fuggles / Pilgrim!

 

[lowtones84]

So my Export India Porter has really turned the corner and is one of the best beers I've brewed. It's a little overcarbed, though. I seem to have this problem only with dark beers, though it's not 100% of the time.

I typically raise the temp at the end of the fermentation a few degrees. Any thoughts? I was thinking that perhaps I'm getting a wild yeast at times that's fermenting stuff from a high mash temp that would be taken care of during fermentation on a lower mashed beer, but there isn't really any off taste to be spoken for. Perhaps I should give a gentle rouse a couple of times with these English yeasts that floc out so hard? Raise the temp even more at the very end?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'll be casking up the three I posted a couple weeks ago on Friday. The Oat Mild and BX Bitter are both fantastic. The Mild in particular. The Pale Mild is pretty bland, as expected (and somewhat intended).

Also, my verdict, I still prefer the Fawcett floor malt over the Crisp floor malt.

 

[lowtones84]

I have been thinking of an oat mild for a while as I typically have lots of oats around. Can't really get my hands on mild malt easily, but I'll be using your recipe as a jumping off point. How do you like the Progress? I've read mixed reviews.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'd say if you like Fuggles you'll like Progress. Very earthy, with that sort of tobacco note I get from Fuggles sometimes. But without the "dirt" overtones I sometimes get from Fuggles. I like them.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also I'd go ahead and use more oats than I did, as they're kind of lost (and just comes across as a great Dark Mild, not necessarily an Oat Mild). Next time I'd consider cutting out the Maris Otter and using Oat Malt instead in addition to the flaked oats.

 

[Hanglow]

So my Export India Porter has really turned the corner and is one of the best beers I've brewed. It's a little overcarbed, though. I seem to have this problem only with dark beers, though it's not 100% of the time.

I typically raise the temp at the end of the fermentation a few degrees. Any thoughts? I was thinking that perhaps I'm getting a wild yeast at times that's fermenting stuff from a high mash temp that would be taken care of during fermentation on a lower mashed beer, but there isn't really any off taste to be spoken for. Perhaps I should give a gentle rouse a couple of times with these English yeasts that floc out so hard? Raise the temp even more at the very end?

Lots of english yeasts can go on more than you think - some have relatively high oxygen requirements that are overcome in traditional breweries by rousing for example, the true ringwood strain needs roused or it stops before it's done - then when the beer is racked/bottled etc it can kick off again. There's the double drop method too that they still use at brakspeare .


If you can get enough o2 in by using o2 effectively at the start of fermentation using pure o2 then you probably won't need to rouse, or if the strain has lower oxygen requirements - whitbread b for example (S-04), then you shouldn't need to use either pure o2 or rouse. That's assuming you are of course pitching an appropriate amount of viable yeast


I did a reasonably well hopped bitter a few months ago which included 60g of progress, I like it more than the fuggles I have had in the past. It's still a mild-ish british hop

 

[lowtones84]

Thanks for the info. I don't have a pure o2 setup, but I pour through a sanitized strainer and then also use an immersion blender "wand" for a bit to whip up a nice foam. My beers are -usually- relatively low OG as well, but it does seem that once in a while I think they're finished, then I bottle and it kicks off again. It still seems to me that it happens only in my dark beers too, but perhaps I'm forgetting something.

I have been using wlp002 in the past, but have moved to 007 for the past couple of batches. I do pitch a good amount of viable yeast, and I pitch the starter while still active. If anything it's probably a bit of an overpitch for my 4g batches setup.

 

[tgif]

I'm gonna be trying out a dark mild vaguely inspired by one of the recipes in Modern Homebrew Recipes. Hoping to brew this weekend or next.

5lbs maris otter
0.75lbs dark crystal
0.5lbs extra dark crystal (160)
0.25lbs chocolate

1oz willamette at 45 minutes

Yeast is still undecided, leaning towards 1318 though so I can reuse it in a bitter.

 

[JKaranka]

Probably good but sounds a bit malty compared to traditional milds.

 

[iijakii]

Urge you to consider some biscuit in there, and pale instead of std chocolate. It's magic.

 

[lowtones84]

I encourage biscuit as well, though not totally necessary. The choice between chocolate vs. pale chocolate is a matter of preference in my opinion, as standard chocolate gives a slight roast character that I actually enjoy. Did you calculate the srm on that? By first glance it seems like it would be closer to a porter or stout, though I suppose it doesn't matter all that much. Even if you brew it as is, I suspect you'll have a tasty beer on your hands

 

[z-bob]

What about using brown malt -- about twice as much -- instead of chocolate? It won't be quite as dark. (I have several pounds of brown malt looking for a purpose.)

 

[jwalk4]

To me, Brown malt has a very strong toffee flavor. Like really strong.

Was great in a brown ale that I made.

 

[tgif]

Urge you to consider some biscuit in there, and pale instead of std chocolate. It's magic.

I'm planning on using Fawcett pale chocolate.

I encourage biscuit as well, though not totally necessary. The choice between chocolate vs. pale chocolate is a matter of preference in my opinion, as standard chocolate gives a slight roast character that I actually enjoy. Did you calculate the srm on that? By first glance it seems like it would be clsoser to a porter or stout, though I suppose it doesn't matter all that much. Even if you brew it as is, I suspect you'll have a tasty beer on your hands

SRM is a little over 21.

What about using brown malt -- about twice as much -- instead of chocolate? It won't be quite as dark. (I have several pounds of brown malt looking for a purpose.)

I made a porter using the 9:5:5:1 (pale:brown:amber:black patent) portions outlined in Designing Great Beers that turned out really well. It would be a good way to use up some brown malt, and the brown malt character really comes through. I'm not sure if it's something I'd want in a mild though.



How does this updated recipe look?

5 lbs maris otter
.5 lbs dark crystal
.25 lbs extra dark crystal (160)
.375 lbs amber/biscuit (UK sourced ideally)
.25 lbs Fawcett pale chocolate

1oz Willamette at 45 min

Wyeast 1318 probably

5.5 gal OG 1.034 17.5 IBU ~18SRM

 

[z-bob]

I made a porter using the 9:5:5:1 (pale:brown:amber:black patent) portions outlined in Designing Great Beers that turned out really well. It would be a good way to use up some brown malt, and the brown malt character really comes through. I'm not sure if it's something I'd want in a mild though.

I'll try some soon in a brown ale. (no idea if it's Northern brown or Southern brown, or just some Yank abomination) For 4 gallons:

5 lb American pale ale, 3.5L
8 oz UK brown
8 oz American crystal, 120L
English hops or Willamette, 22 IBU's
Windsor ale yeast

I have all of these ingredients already. It should end up about 3.9% ABV. I think I have an ounce or two of Bramling Cross hops left, so I will probably use that.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Here's an Ordinary Bitter showcasing WGV I brewed Sunday night (mashed at 152F, fermenting at 67F, has just gone quiet today), repitched from my previous Pale Mild (I'll be tapping a pin of that tonight). It's strikingly similar to my previous Bramling Cross Bitter, just significantly lower gravity and hopped a little differently. While I kill off the last of a pin of the BX Bitter. Which came out beautifully.

In both cases, I targeted my go-to profile for Bitter using some gypsum and CaCl, with an approximate profile of ~100ppm calcium, ~20ppm sodium, ~70ppm chloride, ~175ppm sulfate, and my base water is ~75ppm alkalinity but knocked down with acid.

5 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.1 %
6.0 oz Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (75.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.4 %
8.0 oz UK Invert #2 (32.5 SRM) Sugar 3 8.5 %
0.75 oz Phoenix [10.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 32.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 8.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Phoenix [10.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast 8 -
1.00 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Measured Original Gravity: 9.0 Plato
Est Final Gravity: 2.0 Plato
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.7 %
Bitterness: 42.9 IBUs
Est Color: 7.6 SRM

 

[JKaranka]

I'm planning on using Fawcett pale chocolate.



SRM is a little over 21.



I made a porter using the 9:5:5:1 (pale:brown:amber:black patent) portions outlined in Designing Great Beers that turned out really well. It would be a good way to use up some brown malt, and the brown malt character really comes through. I'm not sure if it's something I'd want in a mild though.



How does this updated recipe look?

5 lbs maris otter
.5 lbs dark crystal
.25 lbs extra dark crystal (160)
.375 lbs amber/biscuit (UK sourced ideally)
.25 lbs Fawcett pale chocolate

1oz Willamette at 45 min

Wyeast 1318 probably

5.5 gal OG 1.034 17.5 IBU ~18SRM

Roast malts were rare in milds but are becoming more common. You have a point with the brown malt. I keep it as the core Porter malt, but my local brewery uses small amounts of Brown and Chocolate malt in their mild. They've been brewing it continuously for about a hundred years and I bet they have changed the recipe a lot. Punters swear it hasn't changed since the 70s but I bet it has.

 

[z-bob]

I'll try some soon in a brown ale. (no idea if it's Northern brown or Southern brown, or just some Yank abomination) For 4 gallons:

5 lb American pale ale, 3.5L
8 oz UK brown
8 oz American crystal, 120L
English hops or Willamette, 22 IBU's
Windsor ale yeast

I have all of these ingredients already. It should end up about 3.9% ABV. I think I have an ounce or two of Bramling Cross hops left, so I will probably use that.

Gonna brew this today. Is that too much dark crystal malt? I have some crystal wheat malt 40L that I could substitute for half of the 120L.

 

[JKaranka]

Worth reading, comments included.

http://zythophile.co.uk/2016/02/10/shall-we-call-this-new-british-beer-style-hoppy-light-ale/

 

[Hanglow]

Not sure where he is going with it, if you want loads of different subcategories then fine, but as far as I can see it's just a part of golden ales (slightly less top end strength, new world hops only) and a smaller part of pale ales as a whole. Also, a bunch of older golden ales fit the bill in taste at least, like Bitter & Twisted tastes new world hoppy but is hopped with slovenian hops mainly and it's been around since the late 90s. Plus I can think of the likes of clockwork putting out a few then too

The rise of the pale'n'hoppy draught beer though has been quite evident since I started drinking. I wonder what will come next? We must have reached peak paleness

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, agreed. I was mainly sharing for the sake of Americans who don't have access to modern widespread cask ales. A British ale of 50IBU and 1.035OG doesn't fit anywhere in BJCP, specially when packed full of New World hops.