English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Qhrumphf]

Now I've got myself curious. I'm going to have to pick up some blackstrap and some treacle and do my own side by side evaluation. You lot have me doubting myself.

 

[JKaranka]

Just to clarify, Britain has traditionally grown beets for sugar production but all the stuff used in beer is cane sugar based since they developed the cane sugar industry in the West Indies. As usual, a big proportion of things used in Britain have traditionally been imported (hops, grains, sugar, etc.).

 

[JKaranka]

Just goes to show what a relatively small industry sugar beet production has been for the last three centuries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_plantations_in_the_Caribbean

 

[JKaranka]

Lol, I was wrong. Beet sugar production is much more recent, not happening in Britain until the 1920s. So definitively not used in beer as there has been a strong link between cane sugar and brewing for centuries. Beet definitively not traditional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet

 

[unionrdr]

Since I have a new camera & tripod, I'm going to do a video of a taste comparison. Darn stormy weather's making the room dark. I definitely need some lighting in here. I have the unsulphured molasses & the black treacle for the comparison. The unsulphured molasses was what I used in my kottbusser.

 

[Hanglow]

I am ordering ingredients soon after a short break from all grain, I did do an extract kit and turbo cider to keep me ticking over

I'm thinking of doing all british ales and porters for the whole sack

A bitter, to build up yeast

Then definately a Burton, an oatmalt stout and export stout and then I'm not sure, perhaps a golden ale or two

So what single White Labs yeast would you pick if doing all those beers? I just want to stick to one yeast for the whole lot. Something that is easy to use and a true top cropper

I am though considering trying out the Wibblers yeast as they sell it on their website, they got it from Crouch Vale who in turn got it from Ridleys

Or just culturing up some from a bottle of say St Austell or Thwaites and using that

Thoughts?

 

[JKaranka]

Not a specialist, but WLP023 sounds potentially interesting by what I've read. The Whitbread strains do take a beating, though, and are malleable to fit most styles.

 

[Hanglow]

Looks good. I've only used WLP013, WLP002 and WLP007 from them before and they were all good, just fancy something different.

Might culture up some up from dregs anyway and toss it in to get a mixed culture

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm partial to Wyeast 1469, but if you're bound to White Labs I'd second WLP023.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

Looks good. I've only used WLP013, WLP002 and WLP007 from them before and they were all good, just fancy something different.

Might culture up some up from dregs anyway and toss it in to get a mixed culture

I was going to suggest WLP007, but I see you've already mentioned you are looking for something different. I think it's a great, very versatile English yeast.

 

[unionrdr]

I'm going to do a Burton strong ale next. I'm thinking of using the Burton ale yeast this time. Also got black treacle from amazon, & going to use dark candi sugar as well.

 

[Cider123]

Yeah, I want to try that black treacle stuff too. I'll look for it at amazon.

I made a English blend of something yesterday. I don't know what you call it, but I have hopes. I just thought it would be a good summer session ale.

4.5 lbs MO
3 lbs light wheat
1 lb flaked wheat
8 oz honey malt

1 oz fuggles @ 60 min
.5 oz fuggles @ 20 and 2 min

mashed at 154F, 60 min boil.
Pitched a packet of 04 and it's bubbling away down in the 63F cellar. The heat of fermentation has bumped up the fermenter temp to 68F. I usually use 1469, but I didn't think ahead to make a starter. I'm looking forward to kegging this one up.

 

[unionrdr]

Kind of a British bready, caramel wheat ale...

 

[JKaranka]

There used to be British wheat ales but mostly sour. Search for West Country White Ale.

 

[Hanglow]

Ordered Muntons Extra Pale as my base malt for my brews, anyone used this? Probably should have checked before I ordered

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Ordered Muntons Extra Pale as my base malt for my brews, anyone used this? Probably should have checked before I ordered

Depends on just what you want to accomplish. While that LME is mostly aimed at light lagers and light hybrid ales (e.g., cream ale), it can be used for an English style Pale Ale if you add some color malts to it. It isn't strictly 'authentic', but it can be used. A pound of 60L crystal malt as a specialty steeping malt should bring the malt character and color up to a suitable point, though you'll need to experiment with it a bit. You might consider a half pound of either aromatic malt or Victory malt as well, or a small (1/4 pound or less) amount of chocolate malt.

The real problem is that Munton doesn't make a straight Pale Ale Malt based LME. Their Pale LME is also based on a 2-row lager malt, but the Amber (AFAICT) is a mix of Pale Ale malt and Crystal Malt, which makes it hard to judge how to use it unless you re already familiar with it.

There are some true Pale Ale LME and DME sources around - Briess has a Pale Ale LME, for example - but I don't know about the availability for it at your LHBS.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Ordered Muntons Extra Pale as my base malt for my brews, anyone used this? Probably should have checked before I ordered

Depends on just what you want to accomplish. While that LME is mostly aimed at light lagers and light hybrid ales (e.g., cream ale), it can be used for an English style Pale Ale if you add some color malts to it. It isn't strictly 'authentic', but it can be used. A pound of 60L crystal malt as a specialty steeping malt should bring the malt character and color up to a suitable point, though you'll need to experiment with it a bit. You might consider a half pound of either aromatic malt or Victory malt as well, or a small (1/4 pound or less) amount of chocolate malt.

The real problem is that Munton doesn't make a straight Pale Ale Malt based LME. Their Pale LME is also based on a 2-row lager malt, but the Amber (AFAICT) is a mix of Pale Ale malt and Crystal Malt, which makes it hard to judge how to use it unless you re already familiar with it.

There are some true Pale Ale LME and DME sources around - Briess has a Pale Ale LME, for example - but I don't know about the availability for it at your LHBS.

Not sure if he's using LME, or Munton's Extra Pale malt, which appears to be a lower kilned Maris Otter (ie 1.5°L instead of ~3°L). I've used the regular Munton's Maris Otter, but never the Extra Pale. I'm generally not a fan of Munton's, although I do use their extra dark crystal (150°L), but can't speak to the "Extra Pale" MO.

As far as Briess Pale Ale malt (and malt extract), it's made from American 2-row barley, kilned like English malt (ie a little darker and more character than generic US 2 row malt), but it's NOT a substitute for an English pale malt (I did some side by side comparisons). It gets the toasty notes right, but it's like regular bland US 2 row with a toasty overtone, and lacks the depth of a proper English pale malt. Every English beer I used it in, the one made with proper Maris Otter was better every single time. Now, if you were to use it for a little more malt depth in an American beer, that'd be a different story.

 

[Cider123]

Kind of a British bready, caramel wheat ale...

If that's how it comes out I'll be stoked. I have three taps and this will be between a pilsner and a mild ale.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

As far as Briess Pale Ale malt (and malt extract), it's made from American 2-row barley, kilned like English malt (ie a little darker and more character than generic US 2 row malt), but it's NOT a substitute for an English pale malt (I did some side by side comparisons). It gets the toasty notes right, but it's like regular bland US 2 row with a toasty overtone, and lacks the depth of a proper English pale malt. Every English beer I used it in, the one made with proper Maris Otter was better every single time.

OK, that's a good point, I hadn't known that about the Briess pale ale malt. I've been using MO for anything like that in any case, usually from Crisp rather than either Munton or Thomas Fawcett, so I wasn't really familiar with the Briess PA malt in any case. I appreciate the information.

And yes, I jumped to the assumption that Hanglow was talking about LME rather than malt grain, as I knew of the Extra Pale LME but I hadn't heard of the Extra Pale Malt that they offered. While I would not necessarily choose it myself, the Extra Pale malt sounds like it should be fine in a pale ale, especially if it is just a low-kilned MO, but I would expect it to be on the golden rather than amber side of the style - more of a summer ale, I suppose. I do see that Crisp has an Extra Pale MO as well, so perhaps it has become popular for that sub-style.

Hmmn, I have been planning to use a small amount of MO in a (non-traditional) cream ale, but was concerned about the color depth going too high for the style. Perhaps the XPMO is just the thing for that.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've been using MO for anything like that in any case, usually from Crisp rather than either Munton or Thomas Fawcett

Crisp MO is a fine malt, but I'm in love with Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter. It's a little more expensive than Crisp at my LHBS, but I got a bag once at the same cost because he was out of Crisp, and then decided I liked it enough to pay a couple extra bucks per sack. To each their own. I know a lot of folks who love the Crisp.

Hmmn, I have been planning to use a small amount of MO in a (non-traditional) cream ale, but was concerned about the color depth going too high for the style. Perhaps the XPMO is just the thing for that.

Not one to discourage experimentation. But for me, an American Pils malt, some American 6 row, and flaked maize, that's my Cream Ale grain bill.

 

[Hanglow]

Yes its the grain not lme. Also its their spring barley blend, not MO which is a winter barley, although i know they do a MO extra pale

 

[JKaranka]

I had a chat with some brewers a couple of years ago and they thought the extra pale mo was the best thing in the world. Light like American two row slash pilsner but with great depth of flavour. I've had good beers with it, specially hoppy styles. For example, Hopcraft brewery, who mainly do insanely hopped American influenced beers.

 

[Hanglow]

I'm going to start with a single malt bitter to build up the yeast so that should give me a very good idea what it's about

 

[coyote68]

I was wanting to use up some Pheonix hops as i haven't found too many recipes that use them.
since i love blue bird bitter and black sheep's all creatures. i decided to use them for the design.
here's what i came up with.

5 gal. batch
OG 1.038
mash 156 F./ 60 min.
29.5 IBU
7 lb 4 oz - MO (Fawcett)
4 oz - Crystal I (Bairds)
.75 oz - Pheonix (8%) 60 min.
.25 oz - Pheonix (8%) 15 min.
1 pkg wyeast 1469.

hit my starting OG. fermented for 2 weeks @ 68 F FG @ 1.010 then bottled using 3 oz table sugar.

i was very happy with the results. the flavor of the pheonix hop is a lot like challenger but more intense. one of the best things about the flavor is that i get light citrus/grass notes with hints of molasses.

my father in law who is an avid tetley's drinker really liked this beer, he described it as a lite colored tetley's with some hops and a candy sweetness. and actually asked for a case.

 

[Hanglow]

Brewed a beer based on hobgoblin today, forgot to adjust my efficiency in the software and ended up with a 1.060 wort It was supposed to build up some yeast for bigger brews, I think what I'll do is top crop it and store the yeast under some tasteless lager. I don't like liquoring back

Oh well.

Here's the recipe

OG 1.052
Actual SG 1.060
FG 1.014
35 IBU

Muntons extra pale 89%
Crystal 113EBC 8%
Pale Chocolate 3%

Admiral 60 mins 30 IBU
Styrian Goldings 15g 15 mins
15g 10 mins
20g 5 mins


WLP023, 1.1l starter pitched at high krausen

 

[JKaranka]

I've ended up with this balanced Victorian mild / strong ale that everybody likes. Most people comment on how they like it but nobody has descriptions for it. It's bitter and medium bodied. I'll find out the recipe for tomorrow.

 

[lowtones84]

Beginning to plan a barley wine for the winter months. Will likely be mostly MO, perhaps some brown malt or a bit of crystal, though I'm not sure it will need it. Probably some invert sugar and mostly EKG hops.

What I'm most concerned about is the yeast selection. My house yeast for English ales is WLP002, and I'm very happy with it but not sure it will handle the high gravity and alcohol content. Anyone have a yeast that works well for them in barley wines? I want to avoid a multi-strain approach, unless it's maybe two English strains that could work well together, or perhaps adding Brett to a portion.

 

[JKaranka]

Sounds good. What OG are you aiming at? Have you seen old recipes like this one?

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/lets-brew-wednesday-1839-barclay.html?m=1

 

[Qhrumphf]

Do not attempt to use White Labs Super High Gravity yeast. Will eat all the body and residual sweetness right out and leave you with a dry, insipid 14-15% mess that's closer to a barley....wine than a barleywine.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also I would try MO only with some Invert and a very long boil.