English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[lowtones84]

I posted this a couple of pages back, but I didn't get around to brewing and and should actually get around to it today, with a slight modification. This isn't a traditional English beer really, but a "Harvest Porter" with a fair amount of unmalted grain/adjunct. The recipe is for a -4 gallon batch-, which makes some of the numbers look a little weird.

Est OG: 1.086
Est IBU: 29.98

6.5 lb. Crisp Maris Otter
1.5 unmalted (lightly toasted) spelt)
1 lb. (lightly toasted) flaked oats
1 lb. Crisp Brown Malt
6 oz. Crisp Chocolate Malt
6 oz. Melanoidin Malt
1 lb. home made invert sugar-going for #2.

.5 oz. Challenger (8.9%AA) @ 60 min.
.5 oz. Bramling Cross (7.3% AA) @ 20 min.
.25 oz. Bramling Cross @ FO.

Probably going to do a cereal mash of the unmalted grains since it's a decent amount. And I have the time and enjoy brewing For the infusion mash, I'm thnking 156 F for 90 minutes to help get as much conversion as possible, once again because of the unmalted grain.

Dual Pitch-WLP 002 and bottle cultured Saison Dupont yeast. Start low 60's, get up to around 80 by day 4 or 5.

For the hops, I also have a small amount of Fuggles and EKG at my disposal. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[lowtones84]

Well, I brewed the above recipe, for the most part. I scorched the invert while trying to go for invert #2 by having the flame a little too high and not stirring often enough. Didn't seem like much time between, but it was just burnt. So a note to anyone making home made invert: stir almost constantly! I still think it's worth it.

So anyhow, I just used .75 lbs. turbinado at the beginning of a 90 minute boil, hoping it would accomplish close to the same thing. The only other change that I made was that I only used .25 oz Bramling Cross @ 20 min, and used .5 oz at FO.

The color wasn't quite dark enough going into the fermenting vessel, more of a brown ale on the dark side. But I'm cool with that as long as the flavor and aroma is nice Got it down to 60F for the pitch, letting it rise overnight in a swamp cooler before I start monitoring more closely.

 

[balrog]

Quick side question, guys; I'm wondering about this BYO recipe for a Mild, is it a typo when then suggest the bittering hops:
"2.1 AAU Challenger hops (0.42 oz./ 12 g at 8% alpha acids) (60 min.) "

...because I thought AAU = (#oz * %alpha)

Recipe found here

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here's a porter that I've made a couple of times and it has been a great hit around here. It is a tad lighter than a typical porter but is full bodied and smooth with a beautiful black currant finish from the Bramling Cross hops. I just kegged another batch tonight. The hydrometer sample tastes creamy and smooth like every other batch of this recipe I've made.

King's Forest Porter

Batch size: 5 gal.
Boil Volume: 7.25 gal.
Boil Time: 75 min.
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.014
ABV: 5.2%
SRM: 13.6
IBU: 27

Brewhouse Efficiency: 80% (adjust your grainbill accordingly)

Grain Bill:
4 kg (8.8 lb) Maris Otter
500 gr (1.1 lb) Torrified Wheat
200 gr (0.5 lb) British Medium Crystal (Crystal 60 or 80 ok but slight flavor difference)
100 gr (0.2 lb) Roasted Barley
50 gr (0.1 lb) English Chocolate malt


Single infusion mash - 90 min. @ 151F
Batch sparge - 15 min. @ 165F

Hops Schedule:
1 oz. Challenger @ 75 min.
0.75 oz. Fuggles @ 10 min.
0.5 oz. Bramling Cross @ flameout - Steep 30 min. @ 158F
0.5 oz. Fuggles - dryhop @ 5 days

Adjuncts:
1 Whirfloc tablet or 1 tsp. Irish Moss @ 15 min.

Yeast:
WLP-002 London Ale, Wyeast 1968 or S-04
Hydrate dry yeast or make 1L starter for liquid

Fermentation:
7 days @ 65F followed by 3-7 days @ 68F (until stable FG is reached)'

Beer may be kegged or bottled and served as soon as properly carbonated. However the flavors do tend to deepen and improve with a few weeks of aging.

Cheers!

credit for recipe goes to: The Complete Homebrew Handbook, c Bath, UK

 

[coyote68]

So what is your take on blending hops varieties? I am working on an ESB recipe with primarily Maris Otter and a little medium crystal.

I have Northdown, Challenger and Target for bittering. Fuggles and EKG for aroma. Which of these hops varieties do you find work well with each other?

a lot of british brewers use proprietary blends. Teltey's uses a northdown (75%) and target (25%) blend as bittering hops. then a small late addition of northdown .

 

[Puddlethumper]

a lot of british brewers use proprietary blends. Teltey's uses a northdown (75%) and target (25%) blend as bittering hops. then a small late addition of northdown .

That is interesting. Hadn't heard it before but it does make sense.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

lets get some history in this from the English. The hoppy beer started as a preservative shipping to India in trade for spices and started this whole hop craze off we know today. so getting back to history in the hops they used were mostly the "Brewer's Gold or Fugglel's and Golding's" type and mostly bitters because of the heavy use of hops as a preservative added bitterness to the beer.

so with that said I still love a east Kent golding's bitter having a large amount of hops at 60 and the rest dry hopped for 7 days ....I could care less about political or popular trends, it just tastes good !!

 

[coyote68]

have a cousin (my wife's) who worked at the brewery when it was in leeds. i toured the brewery several times when i went to visit. so being the snoop i am, i kept my eyes open and asked a million ?'s. Tetley's is one of the hardest to clone but that's the key to getting it right.

 

[Puddlethumper]

have a cousin (my wife's) who worked at the brewery when it was in leeds. i toured the brewery several times when i went to visit. so being the snoop i am, i kept my eyes open and asked a million ?'s. Tetley's is one of the hardest to clone but that's the key to getting it right.

LOL, reminds me of the time I tried to track down a clone of Deschutes Brewing's Red Chair Ale. They had the recipe on their website. But they listed the ingredients only. They said they felt that figuring out times and quantities was part of challenge of brewing!

Couldn't help chuckling with them. Good beer. Worth keeping it under their hats I guess.

 

[Puddlethumper]

have a cousin (my wife's) who worked at the brewery when it was in leeds. QUOTE]

Hmm, Leeds. I rode a Bob Jackson bicycle for many hundreds of miles over the course of a decade or so. Hand made in Leeds. They were there for a very long time. Wonderfully made bikes. I don't suppose they're still around though.

 

[balrog]

Here's a porter that I've made a couple of times
200 gr (0.5 lb) British Medium Crystal (Crystal 60 or 80 ok but slight flavor difference)

50 gr (0.1 lb) English Chocolate malt

First, thanks for the recipe. Two questions come to my mind:
What would you say is the flavor difference between the Medium Crystal and the 60/80 I can find at my US LHBS? And is "English Chocolate Malt" mean "pale" or do I just need to source a Simpson's or Fawcett to get the right flavor? Thanks!

 

[Puddlethumper]

First, thanks for the recipe. Two questions come to my mind:
What would you say is the flavor difference between the Medium Crystal and the 60/80 I can find at my US LHBS? And is "English Chocolate Malt" mean "pale" or do I just need to source a Simpson's or Fawcett to get the right flavor? Thanks!

No problem with the questions. The recipe is about word for word from the original as posted in the book I got it from. Since the book is produced in England by and for British home-brewers I have made an effort to stick to ingredients that would be available there. That is the only reason I suggest the use of British grains.

It's important to note that this recipe appears in the section of the book that provides basic recipes for general brewing. The authors weren't trying to replicate any particular beer. I believe this gives us some liberty to make any of their recipes to our own taste. Because I like it so well I have tried to stick as close to that recipe as possible every time. So I can't speak with any authority on what impact varying the grains I used might have on the finished beer.

To my palette there is very little difference between the British medium crystal and the Crystal 60L - 80L readily available at most lhbs. But I do find that when I chew a few kernels of each I can tell them apart. I have a hard time describing the difference so would suggest the next time you visit the lhbs ask them to let you chew on a few kernels of each. You may not notice much difference at all or again, you might notice a lot. Palettes vary. And in the end, how much impact it would have on the beer when it's drawn from the tap I can't say. I'd assume it will have some effect, but because of all the other big grains in the recipe, it probably won't matter a lot. I would expect either would produce an excellent beer.

And the answer regarding the chocolate malt is similar to the above. The recipe doesn't specify if you're to use a dark, medium or light chocolate. I prefer my porters to be dark so I chose to use a dark chocolate such as Baird's. Since the recipe doesn't specify between dark or light chocolate a person might try it with Crisp. One might also split the difference with some Briess and it would probably work just fine but again, you would be introducing an American malt into a British recipe.

Hope this is of some help. Cheers!

 

[balrog]

Thanks. That helps very much.

 

[lowtones84]

I would agree with Puddlethumper. I would also say that if you have access to the British malts, use them. I've been using all Crisp malting co. stuff in my recent recipes and they are decidedly English.

I had a friend of a friend over around a month ago who just moved over a few years ago and had him try my ordinary bitter. He said that it was spot on to what he grew up (yes, grew up ) drinking in England with his dad. The only criticism he had was that the carbonation was slightly too high as compared to a cask conditioned ale, which is understandable.

 

[Puddlethumper]

The only criticism he had was that the carbonation was slightly too high as compared to a cask conditioned ale, which is understandable.

It seems we have a universal problem with over-carbonating and over-chilling our beers in the view of most Brits.

 

[lowtones84]

It seems we have a universal problem with over-carbonating and over-chilling our beers in the view of most Brits.

Haha yup! Some of my American friends said that it was under-carbed :cross: This English guy said drinking a cask conditioned, hand pulled bitter was "like driking milk" texture wise. Whoa.

 

[dyqik]

Haha yup! Some of my American friends said that it was under-carbed :cross: This English guy said drinking a cask conditioned, hand pulled bitter was "like driking milk" texture wise. Whoa.

Yep, that's about right, according to this English guy - I wouldn't say it's exactly like drinking milk, but that does give an indication of the direction of the difference. The mouth feel is just different with carbonation - even bottling to low carb levels isn't quite the same. Cask conditioning is very easy to do with a polypin/cubitainer, provided you have a fridge/cellar that you can keep about 55-60F. Try it side by side with a gallon cubitainer and 4 gal in a keg or bottled. Also, make sure you use 20oz glasses - you need a full pint...

I don't think the handpulling makes much difference though. Gravity served has the same thing going on.

 

[JKaranka]

It's meant to be still somewhat carbonated, though. A bit like 'still cider' is often a bit more carbonated than absolutely flat. Often the head comes from the use of the sprinkler, but you should still have bubbles coming up the pint. It just shouldn't be like a fizzy drink!

 

[dyqik]

It's meant to be still somewhat carbonated, though. A bit like 'still cider' is often a bit more carbonated than absolutely flat. Often the head comes from the use of the sprinkler, but you should still have bubbles coming up the pint. It just shouldn't be like a fizzy drink!

Oh yes.

You get a reasonable idea if you drink the hydrometer sample from a completed fermentation that you're doing at around 62-64f. Obviously it's very green still, but the carbonation isn't far off what you'd get from a cask and pour through a beer engine. It's not like degassed wine.

Sparklers are an abomination though. They only exist to make English beer look like it does in an American film and so you can cheat the drinker out of about 5% of a pint. </Southern Englander>

More seriously, they aren't traditional on English ales, and they do make the beer and hops taste flatter.

 

[Puddlethumper]

It's meant to be still somewhat carbonated, though. A bit like 'still cider' is often a bit more carbonated than absolutely flat. Often the head comes from the use of the sprinkler, but you should still have bubbles coming up the pint. It just shouldn't be like a fizzy drink!

Well said. I recently enjoyed a couple of pints of an excellent house porter served at a nice pub in Medford, OR. It was served at about 45-50F by my guess, had a nice light ring of foam around the edge of the glass but little in the middle. It was creamy, smooth and utterly enjoyable. I could have easily spent the rest of the evening in that pub but would have needed someone with a wheelbarrow to get me home. Decided against that option.

 

[Hanglow]

I find sparklers to be fine with stouts and porters etc, but for bitters, golden ales, IPAs then I prefer without. Ideally through an Aitken Fount too rather than a handpull You can still get a good head if the beer is in proper condition without a sparkler, depending on how you pour it


If a cask has a lot of condition, as some should, then all you'll get with a sparkler is a glass of foam

 

[Puddlethumper]

So let me ask a stupid question here ... when you mention a "sparkler" what are you referring to? This is the first I've run across the term except for kid's fireworks.

 

[lowtones84]

Yep, that's about right, according to this English guy - I wouldn't say it's exactly like drinking milk, but that does give an indication of the direction of the difference. The mouth feel is just different with carbonation - even bottling to low carb levels isn't quite the same. Cask conditioning is very easy to do with a polypin/cubitainer, provided you have a fridge/cellar that you can keep about 55-60F. Try it side by side with a gallon cubitainer and 4 gal in a keg or bottled. Also, make sure you use 20oz glasses - you need a full pint...

I don't think the handpulling makes much difference though. Gravity served has the same thing going on.

I've been wanting to try the cubitainer option for a little bit since I don't have a whole lot of money for beer equipment. Have you used them? If so, do you like it? Do you prime with sugar in the cubitainer or do you transfer when fermentation is just about over or something like that?

 

[Hanglow]

It attaches onto the end of the neck of a beer engine and is essentially like a shower head, so when you pull beer through it, it forces some CO2 out of solution and you get a creamy head. There's a bit of a North/South divide in England over its use

 

[ayrlander]

I've been wanting to try the cubitainer option for a little bit since I don't have a whole lot of money for beer equipment. Have you used them? If so, do you like it? Do you prime with sugar in the cubitainer or do you transfer when fermentation is just about over or something like that?

I've been wanting to try cask ales, too, but haven't been able to find suitable containers online for sale in the US. Anyone have any pointers and how to cask?

 

[coyote68]

I've been wanting to try cask ales, too, but haven't been able to find suitable containers online for sale in the US. Anyone have any pointers and how to cask?

here's an engine build that i used it works great.. also a search in the DIY section has lots of info.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/beer-engine-caskegerator-360684/

 

[Puddlethumper]

It attaches onto the end of the neck of a beer engine and is essentially like a shower head, so when you pull beer through it, it forces some CO2 out of solution and you get a creamy head. There's a bit of a North/South divide in England over its use

Thanks!

 

[sanguine]

For those who lack the space and/or budget for a full engine setup - as I do - there's a pretty nice "miniature beer engine" build floating around that uses a snapware for a base/vessel and a small hand pump, plus some fittings, to dispense the beer. It's certainly not much compared to a real pub-worthy one, but I built mine for less than $50 in materials in like an hour, and it doesn't take up much counter space in my dinky studio apartment. I can either pour bottled beer into the snapware and serve it from there, or attach a longer piece of tubing and use a growler or mini keg as a makeshift "cask."

 

[Qhrumphf]

I don't use an engine at all, currently at least. Planning on putting an engine into the fold in the future.

I do strict gravity using these: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23286. Fill em up after fermentation ends (primed individually to 1.4 volumes or so with corn sugar) with a tiny bit of headspace , attach spigot and then condense it down to purge out the oxygen from headpsace, keep around 70 for 5 days, purge only if you have to, chill overnight to cellar tempand then feed by gravity, and allow to settle in place 24 hours before tapping. Then consume in maybe 48 hours.

 

[CadiBrewer]

Can you guys describe for me the dominant taste in a Fuller's London Porter? I'm terrible at describing tastes in beer. I recently made a clone from the BYO recipe and I tasted it side by side with the real thing, but it didn't have that "twang" that the real thing has. Is that fruit esters from the yeast? Is that bitterness from the hops? Is that roast from the malts? Mine is a good beer, but very one-dimensional next to the real thing.

I figure that with a better description of that dominant taste, I'll be able to see where I differ and be able to get closer to a great beer.

To my terrible taste buds, it is kind of like plums and alcohol together but that's the best description I can come up with.