English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Erik the Anglophile]

Please can you post the recipe.

By popular demand, here goes.
20L batch(about 21.5 in the kettle) 85% efficiency

Chevalier malt 2560g 78%
Flaked maize 230g 7%
Invert 2 490g 15%

Mash 60c/about 15 minutes
69c/90 minutes
Drain and recirculate first runnings once, sparge/mashout

Boil 90 min
EKG 60 min 50g
EKG 30 min 40g
Styrian Bobek 20g dry hop as fermentation slows down and I close the fermenter

OG 1.045
IBU BS calculated to 60, with about 10% less isomerisation with Chevalier I should be at about 55
FG dunno, expecting somewhere around 1.008-1.011
ABV some where around just under 5-5%

Water adjusted to Na 50mg/L So4 320 Cl 150 Ca 205

 

[Miraculix]

By popular demand, here goes.
20L batch(about 21.5 in the kettle) 85% efficiency

Chevalier malt 2560g 78%
Flaked maize 230g 7%
Invert 2 490g 15%

Mash 60c/about 15 minutes
69c/90 minutes
Drain and recirculate first runnings once, sparge/mashout

Boil 90 min
EKG 60 min 50g
EKG 30 min 40g
Styrian Bobek 20g dry hop as fermentation slows down and I close the fermenter

OG 1.045
IBU BS calculated to 60, with about 10% less isomerisation with Chevalier I should be at about 55
FG dunno, expecting somewhere around 1.008-1.011
ABV some where around just under 5-5%

Water adjusted to Na 50mg/L So4 320 Cl 150 Ca 205

Sounds good to me! But depending on the vintage, the chevallier can be very harsh when drunk fresh. I've had both, one vintage that was heavenly from the start and then another vintage then was like a completely different grain. Needed aging but then it was nice. So be prepared to maybe keep the mild for longer and not to drink it "mild". With that much ibus it might be beneficial anyway. Too high for my liking. I've brewed a mild like this before and it was nice after six months.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I think this is the '22 vintage.
Have brewed a 1885 Kirkstall L with it before.
No prolonged aging, think it sat in the keg for 4-5 weeks before I started it and didn't notice any harsh grainy flavours.
Most AK recipes I've seen from that period using Chev as the primary malt have had IBU's in the just under to just over 1:1 ratio.
I felt when drinking that historical mild that it probably can handle quite a bit more IBU than a regular modern barley malt can.
Will let is sit a few more weeks than usual though.

 

[kmarkstevens]

If anyone has a amazon link to a specific hand pump, I would greatly appreciate it. I tried to do a cowboy set up with an RV pump, which had a really wierd reverse thread that I could never get to connect. A well carbonated keg would dispense a few pints from the pressure in the keg but that was about it.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Look for Pint365 and Mason's. I think they have done some models in collaboration also. Angram is a more premium maker, but all those seem to be well regarded producers of beer engines.

Just beware that you might have to order from England if you can't find any on amazon, I know themaltmiller.co.uk have some as I had an Idea to set up a beer engine awhile ago but had to abandon the idea due to time, money and space constraints.

@McMullan has a fair shair of knowledge about this stuff...

 

[eshea3]

If anyone has a amazon link to a specific hand pump, I would greatly appreciate it. I tried to do a cowboy set up with an RV pump, which had a really wierd reverse thread that I could never get to connect. A well carbonated keg would dispense a few pints from the pressure in the keg but that was about it.

I've got a Angrams for sale. Through the counter models not clamp on. Be willing to give you a good price if interested.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

@Miraculix
You have used Simpson's Imperial Malt quite a bit, yes?
I noticed one of my online shops stock it, and was pondering the idea of buying a 2kg bag to try it out. How and in what types of beers have you brewed with it?

Will probably at first do a basic 1.040 Yorkshire-ish type bitter with it, omit the crystal and replace it with 20% Imperial, and some invert ofc.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I reckon when looking at late 1800's/early 1900's recipes, when amber malt is called for, it was likely something fairly close to Imperial malt.
At least from what I can gather googling around a bit.

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix
You have used Simpson's Imperial Malt quite a bit, yes?
I noticed one of my online shops stock it, and was pondering the idea of buying a 2kg bag to try it out. How and in what types of beers have you brewed with it?

Will probably at first do a basic 1.040 Yorkshire-ish type bitter with it, omit the crystal and replace it with 20% Imperial, and some invert ofc.

Ahhh it is a lovely malt! Probably the most underrated malt out there. It makes a really good addition to anything which should be malty. I used it in porters and stouts and it really shines there. I can also see it at about 30-50% in a brown ale or in an old ale. Basically anything where you want some good maltyness.

Never used it in a bitter though, but 20% of the grist would be my starting point as well. Just base malt plus the 20% would be good I guess. You could also bring in invert sugar but I would certainly skip any crystal, at least for the first tryout.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Gonna order some then, have to restock my sugar chest aswell with some quality light and dark muscovado. The idea with the bitter is to use it in a neutral grain bill to really see what it brings to the table.
If I like it I might use it in that 1900 Whitbread single stout as the 20% amber it has in the recipe.

 

[Miraculix]

Gonna order some then, have to restock my sugar chest aswell with some quality light and dark muscovado. The idea with the bitter is to use it in a neutral grain bill to really see what it brings to the table.
If I like it I might use it in that 1900 Whitbread single stout as the 20% amber it has in the recipe.

Use at least double the amount then, compared to the amber. You can also use it 100% on its own, it's diastatic. I brewed 50% stouts with it and it was marvellous. Don't be afraid to use it in high quantity in dark beers. An imperial only smash is also on my list.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

It seems when looking at recipes that amber malt kinda dissapeared during ww1, but I feel fairly certain I've read that the re-introduced kind is much roastier than the original kind, and that it used to be diastatic.

 

[schmurf]

Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

It seems when looking at recipes that amber malt kinda dissapeared during ww1, but I feel fairly certain I've read that the re-introduced kind is much roastier than the original kind, and that it used to be diastatic.

Why not just try it and see if you like it as a substitute for amber malt? I don't think there's any need to over think it, it's just personal preferences.

I used 40% in a dark mild with good outcome.

 

[Peebee]

Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

It seems when looking at recipes that amber malt kinda dissapeared during ww1, but I feel fairly certain I've read that the re-introduced kind is much roastier than the original kind, and that it used to be diastatic.

Cheeky so-and-so! Now why would you think @patto1ro would answer a question like that? It's well outside his "normal" area of study and he doesn't normally post on such matters. But who knows, he might well of visited the maltings in his travels and has an opinion?

Simpsons have a very modern maltings, and they appear to use them in quite imaginative ways. Their "amber malt" is not diastatic (61EBC give or take 7-8) and has a most distinctive flavour; it is used in Fullers 1845, and I can't make a "clone" of that beer without it (and I have tried, 1845 is perhaps my favourite commercial tipple). Imperial malt, which is diastatic even though it's roasted to 45EBC, has much the same flavours (but at a lower level). I'm looking forward to trying their aromatic malt, and "Cornish Gold" which despite being used as a base malt is roasted to 25EBC.

But I won't use their malts in any attempted historical recreation! They use too much "modern" jiggery-pokery.

The pre-drum-roaster amber malts were, in my view, the lighter coloured of the so-called "brown" malts. Neither bore any resemblance to malts of the same name today. Unless you believe some of the "magical lost knowledge" ideas some spout .

Enjoy Simpsons malts for what they are: Fine modern-day examples of the maltsters craft. Not copies of a former-days hard graft.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Yeah I know, that's why I when I brew beers inspired by historical practises/school of thought, I opt for the period around 1900 +/- 10 years.

This is as I understand it the furthest back you can likeky go and for example having brown malt not being all too different from what we have today(the drum roaster had been widely adopted by that time, and I've seen accounts from then of people complaining brown malt and porters/stouts having lost the flavour they used to have).

My remaining issue seems to be amber malt, from what I can see it was a drum roasted malt by then, but it seems to have still been somewhat diastatic and therefore likely less roasted than the re-introduced kind of today.
Now I am just completely free-thinking here, but maybe Simpson's with their Imperial malt have made an attempt to sort of recreate old-school amber malt?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

Pretty sure he's said as much in Let's Brew comments.

ETA: Not an amber sub, but for high-dried. And always "evidently" or "I've been told...."

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Maybe doing something like mixing Imperial with 20% modern amber and slightly increasing the amount of "amber approximation" would work...

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'll scour through my Ronnie P books tonight.
I am fairly certain I've read some description in one of them leading me to believe it might be a decent approximation of old-school drum roasted amber malt.

 

[HM-2]

I would have a look at the Warminster range if you want some closer approximations of historic malts.

 

[user 246304]

Cheeky so-and-so! Now why would you think @patto1ro would answer a question like that? It's well outside his "normal" area of study and he doesn't normally post on such matters. But who knows, he might well of visited the maltings in his travels and has an opinion?

Simpsons have a very modern maltings, and they appear to use them in quite imaginative ways. Their "amber malt" is not diastatic (61EBC give or take 7-8) and has a most distinctive flavour; it is used in Fullers 1845, and I can't make a "clone" of that beer without it (and I have tried, 1845 is perhaps my favourite commercial tipple). Imperial malt, which is diastatic even though it's roasted to 45EBC, has much the same flavours (but at a lower level). I'm looking forward to trying their aromatic malt, and "Cornish Gold" which despite being used as a base malt is roasted to 25EBC.

But I won't use their malts in any attempted historical recreation! They use too much "modern" jiggery-pokery.

The pre-drum-roaster amber malts were, in my view, the lighter coloured of the so-called "brown" malts. Neither bore any resemblance to malts of the same name today. Unless you believe some of the "magical lost knowledge" ideas some spout .

Enjoy Simpsons malts for what they are: Fine modern-day examples of the maltsters craft. Not copies of a former-days hard graft.

This is an awesome exchange. Musing on a historical mild, and what we have available locally is Fawcett's brown and amber. This is great to know.

And is it Tribute, where I saw they use Cornish Gold?

 

[user 246304]

I would have a look at the Warminster range if you want some closer approximations of historic malts.

Wasn't aware Warminster had these malts - I just tapped the last of my Warminster MO, and have a bag of Fawcett MO, but have always loved the Warminster (some recent turbidity issues are on me, not the malt, goes without saying).

 

[DuncB]

And is it Tribute, where I saw they use Cornish Gold?

Yes watch the malt miller you tube videos on brewing tribute for all the info.

 

[Peebee]

... And is it Tribute, where I saw they use Cornish Gold?

Once "exclusively". It's been a torturous wait for it to make an appearance on the Homebrew market. Showing the pictures and product details for months ... along with the words "out of stock"!

But it is available now: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/simpsons-cornish-gold/?v=79cba1185463

 

[Shenanigans]

Once "exclusively". It's been a torturous wait for it to make an appearance on the Homebrew market. Showing the pictures and product details for months ... along with the words "out of stock"!

But it is available now: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/simpsons-cornish-gold/?v=79cba1185463

Expensive for a base malt, worth it to buy a whole 25Kg sack

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

If you think about it as something like Chevalier, to be used occasionally in more special brews it's justifiable...

 

[HM-2]

Wasn't aware Warminster had these malts - I just tapped the last of my Warminster MO, and have a bag of Fawcett MO, but have always loved the Warminster (some recent turbidity issues are on me, not the malt, goes without saying).

Maltings Gold is fantastic. I've never done a 100% brew with it (though I absolutely will) but at 30% of the grist it was like turbocharged Munich with that nutty British twang. Awesome stuff.

 

[Peebee]

... My remaining issue seems to be amber malt, from what I can see it was a drum roasted malt by then, but it seems to have still been somewhat diastatic and therefore likely less roasted than the re-introduced kind of today.
Now I am just completely free-thinking here, but maybe Simpson's with their Imperial malt have made an attempt to sort of recreate old-school amber malt?

You've seen some of my attempts to "emulate" the extinct forms of brown and amber malts. I started writing up on this forum, but I've been distracted away from that. I created a rather "abstract" illustration of how "malt" evolved into different "hues":

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/english-ales-whats-your-favorite-recipe.472464/post-10345391

Then turned my attention to how "uniform" the process would be. From the pin sharp accuracy of modern kilns (microprocessor controlled, etc.) to the limited control of direct heat from burning available fuels and manual turning of grains to keep the heat "uniform". And also trying to picture how other factors such as the initial moisture content played its part.

I drew curves to imagine how the heat applied to the grain. From classic skinny-bell-shaped distribution curves to represent "modern" control of parameters, to stretched out "positive-skew" distribution curves to represent the less controlled historical open fire methods.

Superimposing these curves on "Histogram" graphs (bar charts, but where the width of bars is also meaningful) I could attempt to create "emulations" of historical malts from modern malt.

The (could be) complicated and seemingly random combinations were too much for many folk. But they had more credibility in my mind than the whimsical guesses seen elsewhere. And were much quicker and far less effort than attempting to make the stuff for real.

 

[Shenanigans]

If you think about it as something like Chevalier, to be used occasionally in more special brews it's justifiable...

I guess so, it's a hobby anyway not business

 

[Shenanigans]

I have a malt question.
Anyone familar with mild ale malt?
A nearby home brew shop is selling off it's Fawcetts mild ale with a 40% discount.
Unfortunately only up to 5kg bags so still only the same price as I would pay per kilo for a 25kg sack of somethign else but might be worth a look.

A quick Google and I only found the below.
It's the same colour as some continental Pale Ale malts.

 

[Colindo]

For some maltsters, Mild Ale malt is a different name for Vienna malt. For others, it is a special malt with higher protein content that creates more intense aromas when kilned a bit darker.

For Thomas Fawcett you can check this link. Then you'll see that it has similar specs to their Vienna malt, just paler. This ends up as being the same colour as continental Vienna malt, while their Vienna malt is what is called Munich I on the continent.

It might still taste more British (nuttier, more intense) than continental Vienna, however.