English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Colindo]

I suppose it means I gave up somewhat, and cheated, but since we're in the English Ale recipe thread I thought I'd mention it.

The strongest orange aroma that I have so far experienced was from harvested S-04. Once it is used to being a liquid yeast, it becomes a fruity ester bomb. Very different from its dry form.
Fuller's (either from their bottles or Imperial Pub) is not as orangey to me. Rather a mix of some orange and some pale honey aroma.

I must have a source for it, although the "supposedly" hints that I was underwhelmed by its reliability.

Thanks for the honesty. It is such a difficulty to dig through all these supposed strains and having people invent stuff or misinterpreting statements makes things even worse. I know the story of Boddington's yeast that you quoted earlier and it is a prime example how people took the fact that it might have come from a Boddington bottle far too literally. Thankfully we have the written proof from 1941 in Ron's blog entry.

 

[Brewskey]

I was just looking at Ron's Bishop's Finger recipe that came out today. What yeast would you choose for this one? I haven't had the opportunity to try anything from Shep's, so I know nothing about their yeast character. From their website: "Mouth-filling fruit, prunes, plums and dried apricot spiked with palate-prickling pepper, cinnamon and a soft bitter blood-orange finish."

 

[Miraculix]

The strongest orange aroma that I have so far experienced was from harvested S-04. Once it is used to being a liquid yeast, it becomes a fruity ester bomb. Very different from its dry form.
Fuller's (either from their bottles or Imperial Pub) is not as orangey to me. Rather a mix of some orange and some pale honey aroma.

Thanks for the honesty. It is such a difficulty to dig through all these supposed strains and having people invent stuff or misinterpreting statements makes things even worse. I know the story of Boddington's yeast that you quoted earlier and it is a prime example how people took the fact that it might have come from a Boddington bottle far too literally. Thankfully we have the written proof from 1941 in Ron's blog entry.

That reminds me of one thing I wanted to try since ages, brewing a beer with a stepped up dry yeast starter beer. Starting a yeast starter with a common dry yeast, s04 sounds perfect for this. Only using so much of dry yeast that at least two steps are necessary to get enough cell count. That way the majority of the cells are actually not directly from dried form but from generations further down the line, never being under the drying stress themselves.

If this proves to be effective in increasing desirable yeast characteristics like yeast expression or flocculation, there will be many yeasts I'd have to revisit.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was just looking at Ron's Bishop's Finger recipe that came out today. What yeast would you choose for this one?

https://baileysbeerblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/shepherd-neame-india-pale-ale-limited.htmlI can tell you for a fact that Sheps ditched their yeast and replaced it with Whitbread yeast, the yeast came from across the road from the Fremlins Brewery. Before this happened I'd been the Brewery Chemist at Sheps and had actually isolated the two strains that made up Sheps yeast. We banked it so that in an emergency it could be regenerated. Shortly after that and not long before I left, Sheps bought in a ex Whitbread Director and one of his first suggestions was that the yeast be ditched and replaced with Whitbread yeast. Despite lots of warnings how this could have a drastic impact on the beers Sheps went ahead. It did impact hugely on the beer and many Sheps drinkers noticed!

I've also seen it suggested that the St Austell yeast came from Sheps, as part of the close relationship between the two "peninsular" family brewers - Jonathan Neame was on the board of Snozzell for many years so it's plausible.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I really wish we could get a dry version of 1469, I love that yeast so much but am trying to move to dry when possible for simplicity sake.

It's not 1469, but if you don't mind buying 500g from Ireland then AEB's dry Yorkshire yeast, allegedly from Tetley, might be an option? AFAICT it's exclusive to Geterbrewed at the moment, and not available in retail packs, but these things are not set in stone....

https://www.geterbrewed.com/aeb-geb-yorkshire-regional-ale-yeast-500g/

 

[Brewskey]

I can tell you for a fact that Sheps ditched their yeast and replaced it with Whitbread yeast, the yeast came from across the road from the Fremlins Brewery. Before this happened I'd been the Brewery Chemist at Sheps and had actually isolated the two strains that made up Sheps yeast. We banked it so that in an emergency it could be regenerated. Shortly after that and not long before I left, Sheps bought in a ex Whitbread Director and one of his first suggestions was that the yeast be ditched and replaced with Whitbread yeast. Despite lots of warnings how this could have a drastic impact on the beers Sheps went ahead. It did impact hugely on the beer and many Sheps drinkers noticed!

I've also seen it suggested that the St Austell yeast came from Sheps, as part of the close relationship between the two "peninsular" family brewers - Jonathan Neame was on the board of Snozzell for many years so it's plausible.

Thanks for that link, you are a wealth of brewing information. I guess if they're using Whitbread yeast(s) that makes it a much simpler decision. Are Shep beers not good? I've seen several reviews similar to what was said in the link you sent.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

It's been a while since I had Bishops Finger. But I like their Christmas ale and Double Stout. Maybe they went back to the original yeast in later years because they are definitely fruity.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Just started brewing my Mild. Yeast looks healthy at least.
Next will be a sort of Riggwelter inspired strong/modern old ale.

 

[Miraculix]

I've bottled a strong ale last weekend and brewed a bitter at the same time. The yeast is Nottingham/s04 one pack each. The strong ale came out as expected and the bitter went on the yeast cake from the strong ale. Yesterday I dry hopped the bitter with Goldings and tomorrow or Saturday the beer will go into the bottle.

The strong ale features DRC, used it for the first time. The bitter has 10% Simpsons medium crystal and about 20% Grafschafter Heller Sirup which is the German equivalent to Lyle's golden syrup. I did a step mash for the bitter hoch kurz style and got way to good efficiency. I was shooting for about 4.1 %abv but what I will end up with will probably be 5%+.

Next time I know better, still getting used to the good crush of my new Corona mill.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I tried to like DRC but the burnt sugar and sharp raisin flavour was just too much.
I much prefer the "normal" dark crystal from Simpson.
Got a bitter 1.038 bitter planned that will get 5% dark crystal and a EKG/Bramling X mix in late boil and dryhop additions.

 

[Miraculix]

I tried to like DRC but the burnt sugar and sharp raisin flavour was just too much.
I much prefer the "normal" dark crystal from Simpson.
Got a bitter 1.038 bitter planned that will get 5% dark crystal and a EKG/Bramling X mix in late boil and dryhop additions.

I can understand that. I tried the malt and the malt tasted strong and a bit acrid or bitter. I thought that this might fit well in a strong ale which is intended to be aged for at least half a year anyway, so I used it at about 5% of the grist. In a bitter, the bitter flavour part might be a problem. Not enough time for it to age out properly. But this assessment is only based on chewing on the malt itself, I have no idea how it behaves in the beer.

 

[Colindo]

I can tell you for a fact that Sheps ditched their yeast and replaced it with Whitbread yeast, the yeast came from across the road from the Fremlins Brewery.

Finally a source that I have read before. Such a pity that they replaced a good twin strain with a boring Whitbread.
What do you think of the rumour that WY1026 is one of the two original Shep yeasts?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks for that link, you are a wealth of brewing information. I guess if they're using Whitbread yeast(s) that makes it a much simpler decision.

Although if you're wanting the 1971 version you'd want the 2-strain yeast, Whitbread closed the Fremlin (ex-Rigden) brewery in Faversham in 1990 and I'd guess the switch to Whitbread happened around that time. The Brewlab Kent yeast doesn't feel that Whitbready but is only a single strain so who knows. (I've just noticed, TMM have a sneaky little link to the full Brewlab tech spec lurking in the bottom left of their Brewlab pages).

Are Shep beers not good? I've seen several reviews similar to what was said in the link you sent.

Their reputation is for being a bit dull, it doesn't help they've been widely sold in supermarkets in clear bottles so were presumably using tetrahop and all sorts, although they have now switched to brown glass. British breweries tend to be judged on their cask offering and Sheps seem to be in that group of trad brown beers which go dull really quickly in the absence of throughput - like within an hour or two. The Burton beers like Bass and Pedigree are the same so I don't know whether it's something to do with high mineral content. They can sparkle if they're really, really fresh though.

What do you think of the rumour that WY1026 is one of the two original Shep yeasts?

I have no useful opinion on it - presumably it comes from Kristen England linking it to Oranjeboom which is a bit WTF but Sheps did brew Orangjeboom under licence for a while. I think that would have been after the Whitbread switch though.

 

[user 246304]

I've bottled a strong ale last weekend and brewed a bitter at the same time. The yeast is Nottingham/s04 one pack each. The strong ale came out as expected and the bitter went on the yeast cake from the strong ale. Yesterday I dry hopped the bitter with Goldings and tomorrow or Saturday the beer will go into the bottle.

The strong ale features DRC, used it for the first time. The bitter has 10% Simpsons medium crystal and about 20% Grafaschafter Heller Sirup which is the German equivalent to Lyle's golden syrup. I did a step mash for the bitter hoch kurz style and good way to good efficiency. I was shooting for about 4.1 %abv but what I will end up with will probably be 5%+.

Next time I know better, still getting used to the good crush of my new Corona mill.

Excellent. I've got some DRC arriving today - plan to use it in my RIS. What's your impression, from your strong ale?

Edit: missed your notes, sorry. Will be interesting to see after aging.

 

[Colindo]

The Burton beers like Bass and Pedigree are the same so I don't know whether it's something to do with high mineral content.

I had Pedigree twice and found it incredibly bland compared to the descriptions of e.g. Martyn Cornell. Maybe that explains it.

I have no useful opinion on it - presumably it comes from Kristen England linking it to Oranjeboom which is a bit WTF but Sheps did brew Orangjeboom under licence for a while. I think that would have been after the Whitbread switch though.

Thanks, interesting to know.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Mild is pitched and tucked away, overshot OG a little bit, have to keep in mind to adjust efficiency for those very low gravity brews...

 

[balrog]

Got a bitter 1.038 bitter planned

have to keep in mind to adjust efficiency for those very low gravity brews...

[Edit: <for clarification>: 1.040-1.050 is where I am 99% of the time]

 

[Brewskey]

Mild is pitched and tucked away, overshot OG a little bit, have to keep in mind to adjust efficiency for those very low gravity brews...

Open ferment? I like it. What yeast are you using?

 

[Shenanigans]

I bottled an India Brown Ale clone a few days ago fermented with WLP005.
I just want to share my experience with that yeast.
With the first generation I did an English IPA and got about 75% attenuation but this time the beer went from 1.071 OG to 1.006.
That's 91% apparent attenuation, there was 2.8% dark brown sugar in there but that shouldn't have that much of an effect.
Don't think it's a measurement error because the other three beers I brewed turned out normal.
Also it tastes fine so I don't expect that it's infected.

I actually experenced this before the last time I used WLP005 about 5 years ago.
After a few generations getting attenuation in the 90's.
Last time I harvested it by top cropping from the fermenter.
This time around I just made an oversized started and used what was leftover to make a new starter the next brew day.
It looks like that caused the yeast to mutate even quicker.

Anyone else experience that with this yeast?
I was going to use the next gereration for a brown porter but I think I'll use something else now.

I guess each yeast is different in this regard but with London Ale 3 I'm on about the 5th or 6th generation and I'm still getting consistent attenuation.

 

[Brewskey]

I bottled an India Brown Ale clone a few days ago fermented with WLP005.
I just want to share my experience with that yeast.
With the first generation I did an English IPA and got about 75% attenuation but this time the beer went from 1.071 OG to 1.006.
That's 91% apparent attenuation, there was 2.8% dark brown sugar in there but that shouldn't have that much of an effect.
Don't think it's a measurement error because the other three beers I brewed turned out normal.
Also it tastes fine so I don't expect that it's infected.

I actually experenced this before the last time I used WLP005 about 5 years ago.
After a few generations getting attenuation in the 90's.
Last time I harvested it by top cropping from the fermenter.
This time around I just made an oversized started and used what was leftover to make a new starter the next brew day.
It looks like that caused the yeast to mutate even quicker.

Anyone else experience that with this yeast?
I was going to use the next gereration for a brown porter but I think I'll use something else now.

I guess each yeast is different in this regard but with London Ale 3 I'm on about the 5th or 6th generation and I'm still getting consistent attenuation.

I'm not familiar with that strain, but it would be nice to have an English yeast that attenuates that much. Does it produce some nice esters or is it fairly clean?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Open ferment? I like it. What yeast are you using?

My "house strain".
A blend of 3 cultured dry yeasts. MJ m42, Fermoale AY3 and Brewly English Ale, the last 2 are domestically produced so that's nice.

 

[DuncB]

Not sure if this will count as an English ale.
100% Brett fermenting IPA, ale malt, wheat malt, gladiator and sour grapes.
Lot of C hops.
Not really sure how it will turn out, but it's going great at 36 hours.
Being careful to keep it away from the rest of the brewery.
I suppose an American IPA but thought it might be of interest.

Further question any thoughts on inverting Lactose and using that in a brew? Think I'll just have to invert some and see what it tastes like. If it's awful I'll save it for the bees.

 

[Miraculix]

Inverting lactose? What?

 

[DuncB]

Inverting lactose? What?

Well it's a sugar and glucose and galactose are fermentable.

 

[Brewskey]

Further question any thoughts on inverting Lactose and using that in a brew? Think I'll just have to invert some and see what it tastes like. If it's awful I'll save it for the be

I'm no expert, but I've never heard of that being done and I'm not sure that it wold work using traditional methods for inverting sucrose.

 

[huckdavidson]

Not sure if this will count as an English ale.
100% Brett fermenting IPA, ale malt, wheat malt, gladiator and sour grapes.
Lot of C hops.
Not really sure how it will turn out, but it's going great at 36 hours.
Being careful to keep it away from the rest of the brewery.
I suppose an American IPA but thought it might be of interest.

Further question any thoughts on inverting Lactose and using that in a brew? Think I'll just have to invert some and see what it tastes like. If it's awful I'll save it for the bees.View attachment 835240

Which Brett strain are you using?

We've discussed the lactose thing here but would be interesting to hear from someone who has used it for beer as opposed to distllling.

 

[eshea3]

Mild is pitched and tucked away, overshot OG a little bit, have to keep in mind to adjust efficiency for those very low gravity brews...

Got my mild to brew today. Due to travel and knee replacement been almost 3 months since my last brew.

 

[InspectorJon]

For those that do not follow the Random Picture thread I thought you might enjoy this.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Reminded me I need to get me some proper dimple mugs...

 

[user 246304]

Reminded me I need to get me some proper dimple mugs...

Pint a' mild, please!