English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Erik the Anglophile]

Yes I am aware, but there are also regional differences. For example Theakston's bitter or the Timothy Taylor LL or Boltmaker are notably drier and more bitter than lets say Fuller LP or Adnams Southwold.
My plan is to reduce the gravity from 1.040 to 1.038 and raise FG to 1.008 from 1.007 for a slightly lower attenuation and hopefully an end product finishing at almost exactly 4% abv.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I agree with your comment on the diversity of bitter that is what makes it a great drink. Before the global takeover of UK breweries every major town and som small ones had their own brewery. This meant the local brew suited the tastes of that area together with the water and ingredients that were local.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Yeah we used to have a bunch of regional breweries here aswell back in the day.
Mariestads, Zeunerts, Carnegie, etc but they have all been bought up by Pripps and produced at their big factory-brewery now...

 

[Cheshire Cat]

My top 10 favourite UK bitters (includes Golden Ales which is bitter rebranded)

1. 5 Points Best
2. Summer Lightning
3. Timothy Taylor Landlord
4. Sussex Bitter
5. Jail Ale
6. Exmoor Gold
7. Tribute
8. Otter Ale
9. Sea Fury
10. Devon Dumpling

 

[Miraculix]

My top 10 favourite UK bitters (includes Golden Ales which is bitter rebranded)

1. 5 Points Best
2. Summer Lightning
3. Timothy Taylor Landlord
4. Sussex Bitter
5. Jail Ale
6. Exmoor Gold
7. Tribute
8. Otter Ale
9. Sea Fury
10. Devon Dumpling

I've brewed summer lightning by accident, turned out great, must be a nice beer!

 

[Miraculix]

My favourite bottled one was Breakspear bitter. But there were others that were good that I have troubles to remember. Proper job was also good, regional in Newbury. I didn't like tribute though.

It's always this bottle Vs cask thing I guess. Bottled London pride for example is a disaster, if you ask me. However from tap it tastes like heaven. If tribute behaves the same way it would be a great beer from cask.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Tribute from cask is a really good beer. Proper Job is really an English IPA ( but the Cornish where it’s brewed don’t claim to be English lol.)

 

[Colindo]

The only bottles I bought on my last holiday were bottle-conditioned beers and they were all phenomenal. I think it is the pasteurisation which messes up the flavour so much. Though Fuller's doesn't pasteurise, they only make their beers stronger than on cask, which makes them too sweet for me.

 

[user 246304]

I love English beers.... I always have and ordinary bitter or Dark Mild on tap. Two good places to start with ordinary bitters - Northern Brewer's "The Innkeeper" recipe or the "Boddington's Clone" in the Homebrewtalk database.

Good british malts, good yeast..... I have become partial to 1318 or 1469. Also like 1968.

My most recent version is roughly as follows:
90% Maris Otter
2.5% of each of the following -
Carapils
British Crystal 40
British Crystal 120
Wheat

3 additions of EKG - 1 ounce at 60, 45 and 0 (40IBU's).
(I am making about 6 gallons)

Shooting for gravity of around 1.038-1.042

Do not shoot for "burton water".
If you use B'run water - I am targeting water numbers that are basically around this:
Calcium: 75
Sulfate: 125-150
Chloride: 25-35
Bicarbonate:50
Others are all relatively low
Getting Mash pH of 5.2-5.3
I dilute my tap water quite a bit with Reverse Osmosis water (80% or so)

Control ferm temps...... mid-upper 60's beer temps.

Carbonate on the low side.

Sorry for the resurrection but I've actually never tapped the database and am unclear whether's it's in the recipe section, or another place. I searched for Northern's recipe in the "ales" section of the recipes, and came up empty.

A lot has transpired over the last several years, medical and associated challenges (mild heart attack, mini-strokes, Grave's disease, the usual) and the upshot is that I've forgotten so much of what I once knew. To be truthful, feels like almost everything. Going back to literal brew school and Northern_Brewer has always been a rock solid guide, to me, and I'd love to find this Innkeeper recipe. Can someone point it out? Many thanks.

 

[Brewskey]

Sorry for the resurrection but I've actually never tapped the database and am unclear whether's it's in the recipe section, or another place. I searched for Northern's recipe in the "ales" section of the recipes, and came up empty.

A lot has transpired over the last several years, medical and associated challenges (mild heart attack, mini-strokes, Grave's disease, the usual) and the upshot is that I've forgotten so much of what I once knew. To be truthful, feels like almost everything. Going back to literal brew school and Northern_Brewer has always been a rock solid guide, to me, and I'd love to find this Innkeeper recipe. Can someone point it out? Many thanks.

I believe "The Innkeeper" is a recipe kit at northernbrewer.com. Actually I just checked and they still sell that one. The Innkeeper
Recipe Database

 

[user 246304]

I believe "The Innkeeper" is a recipe kit at northernbrewer.com. Actually I just checked and they still sell that one. The Innkeeper
Recipe Database

Oh, lol, thanks. I'd thought it was a good, basic bitter recipe from member Northern_Brewer here. Cheers for letting me know, Brewskey.

 

[Colindo]

For the UK residents that are into proper Old Ales, tomorrow is the day when another sell of Prize Old Ale starts, formerly Gale's, now brewed by Dark Star Brewing (Asahi). It is the only Old Ale in the UK that is brewed using the solera system, thereby propagating all the Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus and other beasties from brew to brew.

Last year it sold out within 24h, but I managed to get six bottles and tasted the first one two weeks ago. Currently working on a video of the tasting which I will be happy to post here if there is any interest.

You can get the ale here, sale starts tomorrow: Dark Star Prize Old Ale 500ml Bottle
Article by Martyn Cornell about the history of the beer (incl. recipes): Bittersweet Complexity — The Re-Re-Rebirth of Gales Prize Old Ale — Good Beer Hunting

 

[Colindo]

My video is up and running:

 

[eshea3]

A while back I bought a large sack of turbinado sugar to make invert sugar. Due traveling and knee replacement surgery I've not brewed in quite a while and I'm contemplating making my mild in the next week or so. Began to make some invert today and when I add the sugar to the water it's already as dark as a number three or number four. So either I get different sugar and spend a couple hours making invert or just dump in a pound of this turbinado sugar. Any thoughts? I'm strongly leaning towards the latter.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I use turbinado. Yeah, it starts pretty dark. Even in a bitter it doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[ba-brewer]

Inverting the turbinado will give you glucose which helps the yeast grow and produce esters. If you just heat to 245F (with acid) for 20 or 30min you will not get much if any color change.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Inverting the turbinado will give you glucose which helps the yeast grow and produce esters. If you just heat to 245F (with acid) for 20 or 30min you will not get much if any color change.

Right, but doing so with turbinado starts at ~#3. If you're looking for #2 let alone #1, turbinado starts too dark.

It doesn't bother me at all. If the recipe calls for #1 or #2 I do exactly as you say, but accept that my beer might be a bit darker than intended.

 

[eshea3]

Inverting the turbinado will give you glucose which helps the yeast grow and produce esters. If you just heat to 245F (with acid) for 20 or 30min you will not get much if any color change.

Thanks good idea. I usually use a #3 in my mild anyway

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I've been researching the invert making aswell, and have discovered 2 things: the prolonged cooking resulting in partial caramellisation and maillard effects for darkening often present in homebrew lore has no basis in reality.
And invert was usually made by mixing fairly pale somewhat refined sugar with mollases to the different shades of finished invert syrup, at most they let it simmer for a few minutes after adding whatever acid they used.

I personally do not faff about with ac tually inverting the sugar anymore, and just use a mix of light muscovado and white cane sugar for #2 "emulation" and a little dark musco in that mix for #3.
I inverted that mix initially but have not noticed any real difference after switching to just dissolving sugar in some hot wort and adding to the kettel towards end of boil.

 

[Colindo]

he prolonged cooking resulting in partial caramellisation and maillard effects for darkening often present in homebrew lore has no basis in reality.

Source? My research so far has suggested that the combination of inversion and heating does indeed produce caramelisation. No maillard ist correct, since that needs proteins (amino acids). But caramelisation definitely takes place, since Fructose caramelises at 110°C and we create Fructose by the inversion.

If you look at the 1896 paper about invert sugar you'll find that they intensely filter the sugar before the process and during it. My understanding is that they are actually using white sugar for their process and it is only the boil time that creates the colour. Mixing with Molasses is done nowadays, by Ragus for example, but it does not need to mean it was always done like that.

If on the other hand you want a quick invert no 3 and have turbinado at hand, you do not need to bother with inverting first, since adding it at the last 10 min of the boil will cause inversion, since wort is a sour medium.

 

[eshea3]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I believe I'll start simple and just throw the sugar into the boil and adjust to more complex methods of warranted,.

Source? My research so far has suggested that the combination of inversion and heating does indeed produce caramelisation. No maillard ist correct, since that needs proteins (amino acids). But caramelisation definitely takes place, since Fructose caramelises at 110°C and we create Fructose by the inversion.

If you look at the 1896 paper about invert sugar you'll find that they intensely filter the sugar before the process and during it. My understanding is that they are actually using white sugar for their process and it is only the boil time that creates the colour. Mixing with Molasses is done nowadays, by Ragus for example, but it does not need to mean it was always done like that.

If on the other hand you want a quick invert no 3 and have turbinado at hand, you do not need to bother with inverting first, since adding it at the last 10 min of the boil will cause inversion, since wort is a sour medium.

 

[Fr_Marc]

This is a good starting point. If you are enjoying the rant, feel free to read the whole thread .
https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83681&p=866449&hilit=Emulation#p866417
PeeBee has done some excellent research over there.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Source? My research so far has suggested that the combination of inversion and heating does indeed produce caramelisation. No maillard ist correct, since that needs proteins (amino acids). But caramelisation definitely takes place, since Fructose caramelises at 110°C and we create Fructose by the inversion.

If you look at the 1896 paper about invert sugar you'll find that they intensely filter the sugar before the process and during it. My understanding is that they are actually using white sugar for their process and it is only the boil time that creates the colour. Mixing with Molasses is done nowadays, by Ragus for example, but it does not need to mean it was always done like that.

If on the other hand you want a quick invert no 3 and have turbinado at hand, you do not need to bother with inverting first, since adding it at the last 10 min of the boil will cause inversion, since wort is a sour medium.

It's mostly from posts by Ron himself on here and on other forums and posts on Barclay Perkin's suggesting most sugar manufacturers took steps to avoid caramellisation in their invert sugars. And that the ragus method or similair methods seem to have been common, ie starting with a pale yellowish base or #1 and back-adding molasses to get to the darker and more flavoured variants.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And I did a quick stop at the local Systembolaget when I did a shopping visit in town. Was pleasantly surprised by what I found...

 

[Colindo]

It's mostly from posts by Ron himself on here and on other forums and posts on Barclay Perkin's suggesting most sugar manufacturers took steps to avoid caramellisation in their invert sugars. And that the ragus method or similair methods seem to have been common, ie starting with a pale yellowish base or #1 and back-adding molasses to get to the darker and more flavoured variants.

If you have any direct links, that would be most appreciated. I have read a lot of Ron's blog, but definitely not much of all that's there.

And I did a quick stop at the local Systembolaget when I did a shopping visit in town. Was pleasantly surprised by what I found...

Looks great! I like how they get crystal malt flavours without actually using crystal malts. I managed to get a pretty similar profile using Wyeast 1335.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Enjoying a bottle of Samuel Smith India Ale, 5% ABV. implies this is the 1896 recipe done at the Tadcaster Brewery using Yorkshire Squares. I like it, pretty balanced, estery, and a good beer I could drink pints of.

 

[Shenanigans]

Enjoying a bottle of Samuel Smith India Ale, 5% ABV. implies this is the 1896 recipe done at the Tadcaster Brewery using Yorkshire Squares. I like it, pretty balanced, estery, and a good beer I could drink pints of.

Funny, I just ordered a pack of WY1469 West Yorkshire Ale to brew a Timothy Taylor Landlord-like beer.
I was wondering what else I could use it for and I'm not sure if it's true or not (just did a few quick searches) but Samuel Smith India Ale was one suggestion I found.

​

 

[Colindo]

WY1469 is quite versatile. I find it gets really aromatic at 22°C, so that is what I use for cloning Landlord, but at 20°C it works for most styles and at 16°C it stays nicely in the background and just enhances malt flavours.

 

[Shenanigans]

WY1469 is quite versatile. I find it gets really aromatic at 22°C, so that is what I use for cloning Landlord, but at 20°C it works for most styles and at 16°C it stays nicely in the background and just enhances malt flavours.

Thanks for the tips.
I was also thinking of trying it in an ESB with a similar grain bill to Fullers.
Approx 94% Fawcetts MO, 6% Medium Crystal (150 ECB) and a fist full of pale chocolate malt for some color.
Hop it up to about 40 IBU with some combination of EKG, Fuggles, Target, Challenger, Bramling Cross or Pilgrim

I usually brew 3 or 4 beers at a time but only have room in my Kegregator for 1 beer so I'll let it run at room temperature in the basement, which is a constant 19°C. So it will probably reach 21 or 22°C in the fermentor.

 

[Colindo]

Sounds like a great plan. If you have some Styrian Goldings, that works perfectly with Wyeast 1469, just like it's used in the Landlord. EKG gives aromas that are similar to those from the yeast, so it can be one-dimensional. But if you make a mixture you should be fine. Temps also sound fine for this yeast. For an ESB you can go with a lower pitching rate to really boost flavour.