English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[DBhomebrew]

I really am a big fan of Fawcett's Optic. One of my favorite HB bitters has been a batch of @Miraculix's Best with Optic.

 

[Colindo]

That's interesting, because T-F Spring Pale Malt is one of the malts that are easily available in Germany. Time for a test, I'd say. I used it once before and did not notice a difference, but that was at the very beginning of my homebrewing when all the other parameters were still in fluctuation.

The German shop says that T-F Spring Pale Malt is made up "mostly of Tipple and Propino and a substitute for Optic". When I switch the language to English, it says "Optic". Very confusing. Is there a statement from T-F about what the malt is made up of? Couldn't find it on their website...

Edit: Here they say "Spring varieties such as Golden Promise and Propino are also available."

 

[DBhomebrew]

To tell the truth, I don't know. In American advertising, it's all "Spring PA Malt (Optic)", but I wouldn't be surprised that it's possibly another spring barley. A few years ago Fawcett sold Optic as Optic. That's when I picked up a 5lb bag and made that one very delicious batch of Mx Best. Then they ended that label quickly after and made me sad. 55lbs (~2yrs) of Golden Promise later, this Spring PA (Optic (et al)) is available and I jumped on it. Honestly, I bet I wouldn't know the difference between Optic and the other similar spring barleys. I doubt Golden Promise is ever sold under the Spring PA label. GP has too much name recognition to go under a generic label, it's got its own.

I have an email in to Fawcett asking for lot specifications.

Edit: For what it's worth, Fawcett's product code is TF-OPPA. Read that as you will. I hesitantly read it as OPtic PA.

 

[Shenanigans]

This is a question I put in another thread instead of here by mistake.
I promptly deleted it but forgot to repost here.

I have some WY 1275 Thames Valley yeast that I got to brew an English IPA recipe that I saw on here.
It turned out nice but didn't blow me away.

I would like to use it again sometime this Autumn/Winter
Anyone have any decent recipies where they have used this yeast?

I might just do a standard ESB with 93-95% MO and 5 to 7% Medium crystal hopped to 35 to 40 IBUs

 

[tracer bullet]

I have some WY 1275 Thames Valley yeast that I got to brew an English IPA recipe that I saw on here.
It turned out nice but didn't blow me away.

What did it add to the beer, and what were you looking for instead? Just curious.

I have 1275 on the list for my next Brown Ale. There was a podcast (Experimental Brewing) with an interview with the head brewer at Cigar City. They were talking about the evolution of Maduro (great beer) and 1275 was brought up. Sounds like the brewery stopped using it in favor of 1968 because 1968 flocculated faster and they could turn the beers over more quickly. But they both were saying how wonderful 1275 was in a brown ale. So it's been on my list to try and maybe it's one to consider?

 

[Shenanigans]

What did it add to the beer, and what were you looking for instead? Just curious.

I have 1275 on the list for my next Brown Ale. There was a podcast (Experimental Brewing) with an interview with the head brewer at Cigar City. They were talking about the evolution of Maduro (great beer) and 1275 was brought up. Sounds like the brewery stopped using it in favor of 1968 because 1968 flocculated faster and they could turn the beers over more quickly. But they both were saying how wonderful 1275 was in a brown ale. So it's been on my list to try and maybe it's one to consider?

The brown ale idea sounds interesting as it's a style I haven't yet tried to brew myself.
I just found this on Brewer's Friend and with a few subs I would have everything needed (Caramunich III insteads of C-60 and biscuit/amber malt instead of victory)
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1178366/cigar-city-maduro-brown-lbs-clone-wars-
The IPA I brewed with 1275 was pretty nice but the English esters were not really present like what I got from WLP005.
They were there but very subdued.
It can be that I fermented too cold at around 18oC as WY say 17 to 22 oC is optimum and White labs say the equivalent WLP023 Burton Ale is 20 to 23oC.

The beer I brewed was the one in post #3 of the thread below. I have brewed it 5 to 10 times with different yeasts (WLP005, WLP002, WLP007, WLP023, WY1275).
I actually much prefer it from the bottle than the keg but it goes downhill after about a month, like a lot of hoppy beers in bottles. I might try bottling the next version again now that I have improved my bottling process to reduce oxidation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/anyone-brewed-an-ipa-with-ekg.140192/

 

[Miraculix]

The brown ale idea sounds interesting as it's a style I haven't yet tried to brew myself.
I just found this on Brewer's Friend and with a few subs I would have everything needed (Caramunich III insteads of C-60 and biscuit/amber malt instead of victory)
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1178366/cigar-city-maduro-brown-lbs-clone-wars-
The IPA I brewed with 1275 was pretty nice but the English esters were not really present like what I got from WLP005.
They were there but very subdued.
It can be that I fermented too cold at around 18oC as WY say 17 to 22 oC is optimum and White labs say the equivalent WLP023 Burton Ale is 20 to 23oC.

The beer I brewed was the one in post #3 of the thread below. I have brewed it 5 to 10 times with different yeasts (WLP005, WLP002, WLP007, WLP023, WY1275).
I actually much prefer it from the bottle than the keg but it goes downhill after about a month, like a lot of hoppy beers in bottles. I might try bottling the next version again now that I have improved my bottling process to reduce oxidation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/anyone-brewed-an-ipa-with-ekg.140192/

Bottle condition and minimise the headspace to 5mm. Results will last ages.

 

[Shenanigans]

Bottle condition and minimise the headspace to 5mm. Results will last ages.

Yes that is exactly what I meant with my "improvements" since I last bottled it
But if you share any bottles with someone make sure to let them know up front that the bottles are so full

 

[Northern_Brewer]

To tell the truth, I don't know. In American advertising, it's all "Spring PA Malt (Optic)", but I wouldn't be surprised that it's possibly another spring barley. A few years ago Fawcett sold Optic as Optic.

I'd be very surprised if it it was Optic unless it was very old stock. You have to remember that seeds have two target markets - the farmer/grower and the consumer/brewer etc who may want very different things - for instance Citra doesn't have great yields, so isn't a great favourite of farmers, but brewers love it. Conversely Tolhurst has twice the yield of most other hops, but it's not great for brewing with. The way that conflict is resolved with cereal varieties in the UK is that each year the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) publishes a list of recommended varieties of each of the major crops, following trials around the country looking at agronomic factors like yield, disease resistance but also (in the case of barley) the suitability for brewing/distilling - nitrogen content, germination rates and so on. The result is a list of a dozen or so varieties that give farmers some choice, but only of the best of the best. And the process is brutally Darwinian, individual varieties typically only last 5-8 years on the list - some time ago I posted a chart of how they come and go [Edit - #2,368 Also note how unimportant, bordering on irrelevant, Maris Otter is in the wider scheme of things]. Optic was really unusual in lasting as long as 20 years on the list, but it got dropped 6-7 years ago. Propino and Concerto are other stalwarts that were dropped recently - these days it's all about Planet, Laureate and Diablo, and it looks like Skyway could be The Next Big Thing.

Once a variety gets dropped from the list there's no real reason for farmers to grow it - by definition they have been dropped because newer varieties have better yields/agronomy whilst still being acceptable to the maltsters. So you won't be able to grow it unless there's something special enough about the flavour that someone like Robin Appel takes over the whole market for that variety as they did for Otter, or Simpsons for Golden Promise. But there's nothing particularly special about the flavour of spring barleys on the list. It's a bit different for some of the winter barleys on the list - Flagon is the one that usually gets talked about as halfway to Otter - but I've never brewed with it myself.

But I wouldn't worry about trying to get Optic versus Propino versus Planet - they near enough taste the same.

 

[Miraculix]

So... I wanted to brew a strong english ale. I threw together 3 kg imperial malt (self converting brown malt), 4,5kg Chevallier pale and thought.. that might be a bit pale for an old ale. So I added 60 g carafa spezial 2 and 120 g black wheat as I had it on hand. I added about 0,8 kg homemade invert no.2 to up attenuation and OG.

Fast forward 4 hours: 1,1 OG and I have something very very dark.... brownish dark.

Ok, I am now officially fermenting a victorian porter? Well.... if it is what it is.. then let's go for it.

Yeasts of choice: 1 Pack Nottingham, 1 Pack S04, 2g of T-58 and a cheaky dash of BR-8 brett.

Did I mention the hops? 50g of Chinook IN THE MASH, admiral and Fuggles as a 60 minute addition. Man, this wort surely is bitter. Should be between 70 and 80 IBUs. Quite a lot for me.. I usually stay lower.

I hope the mash hops plus the T 58 and maybe the BR 8 do funky stuff together. I am a bit excited about this one!

It is a bit wild but let's see how it goes! The Br-8 Brett does not ferment longer sugars, so it is safe to bottle once fermentation is done. I will leave it in the fermenter for about 2 weeks and then bottle it in 0,33 l bottles.

Tbh. I wanted to get rid of the malt so this experiment came in handy. I am not a big fan of the current chevallier anymore, unless it is used in a beer that is intended to be aged. Just like this one.

I still need to brew an imperial malt only beer within the 4% abv range. That should be aaaaall the flavour one needs!

 

[Pennine]

So... I wanted to brew a strong english ale. I threw together 3 kg imperial malt (self converting brown malt), 4,5kg Chevallier pale and thought.. that might be a bit pale for an old ale. So I added 60 g carafa spezial 2 and 120 g black wheat as I had it on hand. I added about 0,8 kg homemade invert no.2 to up attenuation and OG.

Fast forward 4 hours: 1,1 OG and I have something very very dark.... brownish dark.

Ok, I am now officially fermenting a victorian porter? Well.... if it is what it is.. then let's go for it.

Yeasts of choice: 1 Pack Nottingham, 1 Pack S04, 2g of T-58 and a cheaky dash of BR-8 brett.

Did I mention the hops? 50g of Chinook IN THE MASH, admiral and Fuggles as a 60 minute addition. Man, this wort surely is bitter. Should be between 70 and 80 IBUs. Quite a lot for me.. I usually stay lower.

I hope the mash hops plus the T 58 and maybe the BR 8 do funky stuff together. I am a bit excited about this one!

It is a bit wild but let's see how it goes! The Br-8 Brett does not ferment longer sugars, so it is safe to bottle once fermentation is done. I will leave it in the fermenter for about 2 weeks and then bottle it in 0,33 l bottles.

Tbh. I wanted to get rid of the malt so this experiment came in handy. I am not a big fan of the current chevallier anymore, unless it is used in a beer that is intended to be aged. Just like this one.

I still need to brew an imperial malt only beer within the 4% abv range. That should be aaaaall the flavour one needs!

What don't you like about Chevalier anymore? I have half a sack to use up and I am also not a big fan of it.

 

[Miraculix]

What don't you like about Chevalier anymore? I have half a sack to use up and I am also not a big fan of it.

I think it differs from harvest to harvest. The first time I tried it, it was really nice, like a mix of 90% base and 10% of the finest crystal malt you can find. The Chevallier I got now is pretty harsh and needs a lot of time to pull itself together. After 3-6 months it is usually really good, but before that, it is not nice. Better throw it in a high OG beer and age the F out of it.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I think it differs from harvest to harvest. The first time I tried it, it was really nice, like a mix of 90% base and 10% of the finest crystal malt you can find. The Chevallier I got now is pretty harsh and needs a lot of time to pull itself together. After 3-6 months it is usually really good, but before that, it is not nice. Better throw it in a high OG beer and age the F out of it.

Wich years harvest you got?

 

[Miraculix]

Wich years harvest you got?

I can only guess. I bought it at the beginning of this year so it's probably either last year or the year before.

 

[Pennine]

I think it differs from harvest to harvest. The first time I tried it, it was really nice, like a mix of 90% base and 10% of the finest crystal malt you can find. The Chevallier I got now is pretty harsh and needs a lot of time to pull itself together. After 3-6 months it is usually really good, but before that, it is not nice. Better throw it in a high OG beer and age the F out of it.

Harsh sums up how I feel about it as well, maybe even spicy and grainy. I might keep a couple kilos and post the bag as a giveaway just so it gets used up. It will take me a long time to get through it.

 

[Miraculix]

Harsh sums up how I feel about it as well, maybe even spicy and grainy. I might keep a couple kilos and post the bag as a giveaway just so it gets used up. It will take me a long time to get through it.

Brew something strong with it and age it well. The harshness goes completely away with time. It just might take half a year or longer. A strong ale smash with some noble hop would be a very good idea.

 

[Miraculix]

So... I wanted to brew a strong english ale. I threw together 3 kg imperial malt (self converting brown malt), 4,5kg Chevallier pale and thought.. that might be a bit pale for an old ale. So I added 60 g carafa spezial 2 and 120 g black wheat as I had it on hand. I added about 0,8 kg homemade invert no.2 to up attenuation and OG.

Fast forward 4 hours: 1,1 OG and I have something very very dark.... brownish dark.

Ok, I am now officially fermenting a victorian porter? Well.... if it is what it is.. then let's go for it.

Yeasts of choice: 1 Pack Nottingham, 1 Pack S04, 2g of T-58 and a cheaky dash of BR-8 brett.

Did I mention the hops? 50g of Chinook IN THE MASH, admiral and Fuggles as a 60 minute addition. Man, this wort surely is bitter. Should be between 70 and 80 IBUs. Quite a lot for me.. I usually stay lower.

I hope the mash hops plus the T 58 and maybe the BR 8 do funky stuff together. I am a bit excited about this one!

It is a bit wild but let's see how it goes! The Br-8 Brett does not ferment longer sugars, so it is safe to bottle once fermentation is done. I will leave it in the fermenter for about 2 weeks and then bottle it in 0,33 l bottles.

Tbh. I wanted to get rid of the malt so this experiment came in handy. I am not a big fan of the current chevallier anymore, unless it is used in a beer that is intended to be aged. Just like this one.

I still need to brew an imperial malt only beer within the 4% abv range. That should be aaaaall the flavour one needs!

Fermentation is going all nuts! The upper part of the air lock is almost constantly levitating, that much co2 is being released.

Smells pretty good so far, lots of fruit and a HUGE kräusen plus loads of blow off.

I will directly throw a bitter on the yeast cake of this mixed beauty once it's bottled.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'd be very surprised if it it was Optic unless it was very old stock. You have to remember that seeds have two target markets - the farmer/grower and the consumer/brewer etc who may want very different things - for instance Citra doesn't have great yields, so isn't a great favourite of farmers, but brewers love it. Conversely Tolhurst has twice the yield of most other hops, but it's not great for brewing with. The way that conflict is resolved with cereal varieties in the UK is that each year the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) publishes a list of recommended varieties of each of the major crops, following trials around the country looking at agronomic factors like yield, disease resistance but also (in the case of barley) the suitability for brewing/distilling - nitrogen content, germination rates and so on. The result is a list of a dozen or so varieties that give farmers some choice, but only of the best of the best. And the process is brutally Darwinian, individual varieties typically only last 5-8 years on the list - some time ago I posted a chart of how they come and go [Edit - #2,368 Also note how unimportant, bordering on irrelevant, Maris Otter is in the wider scheme of things]. Optic was really unusual in lasting as long as 20 years on the list, but it got dropped 6-7 years ago. Propino and Concerto are other stalwarts that were dropped recently - these days it's all about Planet, Laureate and Diablo, and it looks like Skyway could be The Next Big Thing.

Once a variety gets dropped from the list there's no real reason for farmers to grow it - by definition they have been dropped because newer varieties have better yields/agronomy whilst still being acceptable to the maltsters. So you won't be able to grow it unless there's something special enough about the flavour that someone like Robin Appel takes over the whole market for that variety as they did for Otter, or Simpsons for Golden Promise. But there's nothing particularly special about the flavour of spring barleys on the list. It's a bit different for some of the winter barleys on the list - Flagon is the one that usually gets talked about as halfway to Otter - but I've never brewed with it myself.

But I wouldn't worry about trying to get Optic versus Propino versus Planet - they near enough taste the same.

Got definitive word back from Thomas Fawcett. My particular sack of Spring Pale Malt is Laureate.

 

[Colindo]

Very interesting!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Their reasoning is exactly what @Northern_Brewer explains.

"You’re right, it’s not Optic anymore. As a barley variety it was superceded by other spring malting barleys that yielded much better so farmers stopped growing it. We changed from “Optic” to “Spring” Pale Ale malt as no single variety has ever managed to become established for more than 1 or 2 harvests. Since September 2022 we’ve been malting a good variety called Laureate, which is what the malt you have is." -TF

 

[Miraculix]

It is kitchen sink time. I have to get rid of malt some hops and I have a fermenter full of beer and yeast. I will combine these two circumstances and create... more beer!

Time for a... wheat porter?! I don't know what to call it.... Main portion is wheat malt, next portion is dark wheat malt, a little bit of leftover pale malt, a little bit of leftover chit malt, a glas of homemade invert No. 2, maybe even 2 glasses, maybe some roasted barley or carafa 2 or black wheat, whatever I got flying around to turn this one dark. Or leave it brown? About 40 to 50 IBUs (will be a bigger beer) plus some mash hops? I have some Mittelfrüh flying around, should be great for this purpose.

All of this on top of a yeast cake of S04, Nottingham, T58 and a dash of BR8 Brett. I have no idea what to expect.. but why not?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

An English Dunkelweissbrownporterale?

 

[DuncB]

It is kitchen sink time.

Time for a... wheat porter?! I don't know what to call it....

I'd call it Dark Whorter

 

[Miraculix]

HORRIBLE efficiency. The wheat was only partially crushed, SO many whole kernels. The good thing is, I am going to turn the leftover of the mash into lionsmane and chestnut mushrooms.

I got below 60% efficiency with a three hour mash.

I am going to buy myself a mill. That's enough.

Otherwise, everything went smooth. I dumped the wort onto the yeastcake of a 10% Victorian porter-ish type of beer which was in there for 2 weeks. Now I know why they say that you shouldn't reuse the yeast of a big beer. Man it took LONG to really get going. Little activity only after 15 minutes but for a 1.065 og beer, I expected hard action within one or two hours with this massive yeast cake.

One day later I added some sugar, just to see what happens, maybe it was already done, but after that the whole thing started to get going.

The yeast mix of s04, notty, t58 and a hint of br8 seems to have worked pretty well in the previous brew btw. Looking forward for drinking it in a year .

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

A recent pint of my "Pennine mild".
Despite the fact it could have attenuate 1 point or 2 more it is a really nice ale, the Fermoale ay3 is a nice yeast, but the citrus from it is a bit dominating.
Gonna do some trials with a MJ m42, m15 and Fermoale mix to subdue the the citrus a bit and get some stonefruit in there for a more Yorkshire-y flavour.

The Old ale that the brett is working on has developed a nice funky pellicle and there are not many bubbles in it anymore, will wait a month then draw a small sample for the refractometer, if it's reasonably low I'll repeat a month after and bottle if unchanged.
The Imperial stout likely needs a few more months though.

 

[DBhomebrew]

The Old ale that the brett is working on has developed a nice funky pellicle and there are not many bubbles in it anymore, will wait a month then draw a small sample for the refractometer, if it's reasonably low I'll repeat a month after and bottle if unchanged.

I was going to ask about this. Mine's still rather active.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I was going to ask about this. Mine's still rather active.

How long has it been in secondary?

 

[DBhomebrew]

How long has it been in secondary?

Right about as long as yours. Mine was a commercial co-pitched blend, right around Christmas/New Year's. Kept at @ a steady 70F all winter/spring.

Took a sample a few weeks ago. ~1090->1017. Tastes great! Still bubbling away.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Mine has been in the cellar but it's fairly stable temp in that little room I keep it in, I'd guesstimate it's been at about 16c during winter and 18-19 now in the summer.

 

[Miraculix]

HORRIBLE efficiency. The wheat was only partially crushed, SO many whole kernels. The good thing is, I am going to turn the leftover of the mash into lionsmane and chestnut mushrooms.

I got below 60% efficiency with a three hour mash.

I am going to buy myself a mill. That's enough.

Otherwise, everything went smooth. I dumped the wort onto the yeastcake of a 10% Victorian porter-ish type of beer which was in there for 2 weeks. Now I know why they say that you shouldn't reuse the yeast of a big beer. Man it took LONG to really get going. Little activity only after 15 minutes but for a 1.065 og beer, I expected hard action within one or two hours with this massive yeast cake.

One day later I added some sugar, just to see what happens, maybe it was already done, but after that the whole thing started to get going.

The yeast mix of s04, notty, t58 and a hint of br8 seems to have worked pretty well in the previous brew btw. Looking forward for drinking it in a year .

Now the yeast is really ripping it!

Full action, half the flat smells like fruity goodness. The airlock is constantly pushed up by bubbles. It's levitating.