Element rust no more!

[bbognerks]

So, I love e-brewing. But, from day one, I had problems with my RIPP element base forming rust in the HLT. Even just having water in it for the 6 hour brew day, it would form enough rust for it to run down the side of the keg to the bottom.

I tried POR15 and aluminum anodes with no success. The POR15 didn't protect the threads and the aluminum anode didn't seem to be active enough. I was just about to buy some magnesium fire starters, when a friend of mine found these.

Camco Magnesium RV Anode

I silver-soldered another half coupling into my keggle and tried it out. 18 hours water soak and not a single hint of rust. I'm sold. I just hope this helps others looking for a permanent rust prevention solution.

 

[drez77]

Intresting. I just covered the end with food grade silicone and have not had an issue.

 

[wyzazz]

Any issues with Magnesium in the boil? Just curious...

 

[bbognerks]

Intresting. I just covered the end with food grade silicone and have not had an issue.

I had thought of doing that, but I wanted a more permanent solution. I read others that used silicone say they have to redo it after a few batches. I didn't want to have to worry about that. The anode should last at least a couple years, if not forever. It's not like I'm leaving water in the kettle day in and day out.

I had not seen this solution before, so I thought I'd share with the community what took me several failed attempts to resolve.

 

[bbognerks]

Any issues with Magnesium in the boil? Just curious...

Not sure what you are asking here. Many beer styles have magnesium in the water profile. Also, your body needs some magnesium as well. I wouldn't think it would add too much magnesium to the water profile. It's a solid chunk, so it would only add what the water would deteriorate in the given time it's in contact with the materal.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'd be curious what a Ward Labs test looks like on water that was brought to boil and back in the kettle.

 

[bbognerks]

Well, I certainly can do that if you really want to know. What do I need to do? Would I need to send in 2 samples. One of my water and one after the boil so we could see what it adds?

 

[wyzazz]

Not sure what you are asking here. Many beer styles have magnesium in the water profile. Also, your body needs some magnesium as well. I wouldn't think it would add too much magnesium to the water profile. It's a solid chunk, so it would only add what the water would deteriorate in the given time it's in contact with the materal.

Maybe I should rephrase, any issues with that large of a chunk of magnesium in the boil? Not trying to discount your solution at all, it's certainly a unique idea, and for that I applaud you. Just wondering what affects (adverse or otherwise) this might have on the boil or water chemistry. I'm certain that it wouldn't pose a health risk, just curious if there might be too much magnesium in the water afterward.

Bobby has a good idea with the Wards Lab water report. Maybe boil a gallon or three of Distilled Water and send it in to see what pops up on the report.

 

[bbognerks]

Well I think I'll send off 2 samples to Ward in a couple days. Which test should I do? Complete household mineral or standard household mineral. There is a $10 difference just to test for iron and fluoride. I'd rather spend $35 than $55 on this.

 

[samc]

Couldn't you just put that on the bottom of the keggle? Instead of adding a new coupling/hole.

 

[bbognerks]

Couldn't you just put that on the bottom of the keggle? Instead of adding a new coupling/hole.

Do you mean just toss it in the kettle? If so, that might have worked, but adding a new coupling wasn't hard for me. I do the whole silver soldering thing. I wanted something permanent and guaranteed. I had already tried a few methods and was looking for something to work. Considering anodes REQUIRE metal to metal contact and must be submerged in liquid/water to work, I wanted to make sure it had good contact.

 

[BuzzedBomber]

Barrett, glad this is working for you -- I'm glad to have found these on Amazon. I've been reading up on Magnesium Poisoning, and think that things /should/ be okay using these.

Cheers!

 

[bbognerks]

Yeah I'm so glad you found them. If they could potentially cause any health problems, I would think they wouldn't be able to sell them. After all, they're designed to constantly be in contact with water we drink, cook, and bathe with every day. I'm not so worried about the health risks as I am about off flavors imparted during the boil.

 

[rosier9]

considering that there is one of these in pretty much every water heater out there, I wouldn't be too concerned. nice find with the shorty! I think I will give it a whirl too

 

[bbognerks]

Yeah I did some more reading just to check about magnesium ingestion. Daily recommended intake of magnesium is 400mg. You would have to be able to dissolve/deteriorate 28 grams or 1 whole ounce of magnesium in a batch of beer for it to just bring you to the daily recommended value of magnesium per pint. Even then, the yeast are going to take a chunk of it cause they really like it. Considering those rods probably weigh maybe 8-10 ounces, it'd have to take off 1/8 of the rod to get there. I'm pretty sure the rod would be pretty rounded on the end at that point. Mine still has a very noticeable flat/squared end. I'd say magnesium poisoning is very unlikely.

 

[wildwest450]

Darn, it would have been funny as hell to have the first electric brewing related death, NOT be from electrocution.

_

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Yeah I did some more reading just to check about magnesium ingestion. Daily recommended intake of magnesium is 400mg. You would have to be able to dissolve/deteriorate 28 grams or 1 whole ounce of magnesium in a batch of beer for it to just bring you to the daily recommended value of magnesium per pint.

Careful bbognerks. You just suggested a maximum daily intake of 1 pint of beer.
You could be banned from the forum for that kind of obscenity...

 

[onthekeg]

Careful bbognerks. You just suggested a maximum daily intake of 1 pint of beer.
You could be banned from the forum for that kind of obscenity...

I believe he mentioned one BATCH of beer, which is acceptable. Daily..:rockin:
On edit he did mention per pint. BLASPHEMY!

 

[bbognerks]

The water results are in. Man I'm glad I sent these off. These numbers don't match my consumer confidence reports that our city provides. The Kettle sample was a 1 hour boil of 12 gallons of water. Not a significant increase in Magnesium. I would say that these anode rods are completely safe.

From the tap
pH: 8.5
Total Dissolved Solids: 412
Electrical Conductivity: 0.69
Cations/Anions, me/L: 6.5/6.4
Sodium, Na: 87ppm
Potassium, K: 4ppm
Calcium, Ca: 30ppm
Magnesium, Mg: 13ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3: 129
Nitrate, NO3-N: 1.2(SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S: 23
Chloride, Cl: 96
Carbonate, CO3: 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 120
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 108

From the Kettle(1 hour boil-12 gallons)
pH: 9.6
Total Dissolved Solids: 460
Electrical Conductivity: 0.77
Cation/Anions, me/L: 7.6/7.6
Sodium, Na: 102ppm
Potassium, K: 5ppm
Calcium, Ca: 33ppm
Magnesium, Mg: 16ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3: 149
Nitrate, NO3-N: 1.4(SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S: 27
Chloride, Cl: 112
Carbonate, CO3: 30
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 95
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 129

 

[wyzazz]

Cool, thanks for posting the results!

 

[kshuler]

Great idea! I am converting to electric and if I ever get rusting, I will try the same. thanks.

Are Zinc anodes OK, too?

 

[milldoggy]

Thanks for posting your results. I alreay have my anodes, might test them out.

 

[wh4tig0t]

What size threads for those anodes?

 

[passedpawn]

The water results are in. Man I'm glad I sent these off. These numbers don't match my consumer confidence reports that our city provides. The Kettle sample was a 1 hour boil of 12 gallons of water. Not a significant increase in Magnesium. I would say that these anode rods are completely safe.

From the tap
pH: 8.5
Total Dissolved Solids: 412
Electrical Conductivity: 0.69
Cations/Anions, me/L: 6.5/6.4
Sodium, Na: 87ppm
Potassium, K: 4ppm
Calcium, Ca: 30ppm
Magnesium, Mg: 13ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3: 129
Nitrate, NO3-N: 1.2(SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S: 23
Chloride, Cl: 96
Carbonate, CO3: 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 120
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 108

From the Kettle(1 hour boil-12 gallons)
pH: 9.6
Total Dissolved Solids: 460
Electrical Conductivity: 0.77
Cation/Anions, me/L: 7.6/7.6
Sodium, Na: 102ppm
Potassium, K: 5ppm
Calcium, Ca: 33ppm
Magnesium, Mg: 16ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3: 149
Nitrate, NO3-N: 1.4(SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S: 27
Chloride, Cl: 112
Carbonate, CO3: 30
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 95
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 129

I do almost that exact set of tests on my saltwater reef tank. They are mostly titration/color change tests. I bet I could use those test kits to test my municipal water. Never cared about it before, but maybe I'll do it and compare to the local city measurements.

BTW, thanks for going all the way with your sacrificial anode test. Very, very interesting. For some reason I've never had any rust on my camco elements. But if I do, I'll know how to fix it!

 

[bbognerks]

What size threads for those anodes?

1/2" npt

 

[bbognerks]

Are Zinc anodes OK, too?

I don't think so. But others may want to chime in.

 

[jsguitar]

I've been asking a lot questions about rusting elements lately and I just tried a half of a magnesium firestarter just sitting in the pot and still got rust. I'm guessing it's not enough magnesium and it needs better contact so I'm ready to try this RV magnesium anode that the OP used, but I'd like to do it weldless. What's the best way to do it? A washer and O ring on the outside of the pot and locknut on the inside?

EDIT: Woops, that's an aluminum anode. Fixed it.

 

[samc]

I don't think it can work just sitting in the pot. It has to be physically bonded to the metal of the pot/element.

 

[jsguitar]

I don't think it can work just sitting in the pot. It has to be physically bonded to the metal of the pot/element.

Thanks samc. I thought that by having the firestarter sitting on the bottom of the pot that it'd be bonded, but perhaps it wasn't strong enough of a bond.

I went ahead and ordered the anodes and some fittings. I figure that they'll be bonded with the locknut to the kettle plus the anode is much larger. Does that sound like a sound plan?

 

[samc]

Yes it does. I was planning the same thing but I only have one small spot of rust that does not seem to be growing so I am not doing anything with mine. I also have the fire starter just in case I decide to go "man vs wild" at any moment.