Electric brewery plans - need help

[Tiber_Brew]

Your setup is exactly what I have been planning to build for myself. I hope this hasnt been asked already, but what changes would I have to make to your final drawings and parts list to use my 5500W ULD elements in both HLT and BK?

Is there any particular reason you want to use 5500W elements instead of 4500W? If you used my setup, but with 5500W elements, you'd be running awfully close to the 50 amp capacity of the GFCI. I would probably suggest using a higher capacity GFCI if you went that route. You might want to look into sources for a higher capacity GFCI breaker, and about how much it will cost you over the 50A GFCI breaker.

TB

 

[sTiNkFiZzle]

Is there any particular reason you want to use 5500W elements instead of 4500W? If you used my setup, but with 5500W elements, you'd be running awfully close to the 50 amp capacity of the GFCI. I would probably suggest using a higher capacity GFCI if you went that route. You might want to look into sources for a higher capacity GFCI breaker, and about how much it will cost you over the 50A GFCI breaker.

TB

I got 2 brand new Camco 5500w elements off ebay for $10 for both. I could always buy 2 4500's I guess. The 50a GFCI breaker that I already purchased and installed in my house breaker box was kinda spendy so I guess buying the 4500s is the best route.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I got 2 brand new Camco 5500w elements off ebay for $10 for both. I could always buy 2 4500's I guess. The 50a GFCI breaker that I already purchased and installed in my house breaker box was kinda spendy so I guess buying the 4500s is the best route.

You could get away with using your 5500W elements if you didn't use them both at the same time. If you did that, I would install a selector switch for the PIDs to prevent you from using both simultaneously.

Otherwise, I'd recommend using 4500W elements your 50A GFCI.

 

[P-J]

You could get away with using your 5500W elements if you didn't use them both at the same time. If you did that, I would install a selector switch for the PIDs to prevent you from using both simultaneously.

Otherwise, I'd recommend using 4500W elements your 50A GFCI.

He's really close @ 46A for the 2 - 5500W elements. One 5500W element and a 4500W element would draw 42A. No problem there..

Just saying..

Oh... Oh... The selector switch is a great solution as well. Just saying...

P-J

 

[Tiber_Brew]

OK, correct me if I'm wrong, P-J, but assuming 220V and 5500W: P=IV, so 5500=I(220), I=25. With two elements, that'd be 50A, no?

By the way, how are things? Haven't talked to you in a while...

 

[P-J]

OK, correct me if I'm wrong, P-J, but assuming 220V and 5500W: P=IV, so 5500=I(220), I=25. With two elements, that'd be 50A, no?

By the way, how are things? Haven't talked to you in a while...

Not really: The 5500W element is rated for that wattage at 240V & will draw 22.9A. The same element powered with 220V will draw less power as the resistance of the element does not change. The resistance is the one constant in the whole thing. With that said: driving the same element at a lower voltage uses less amps to drive it.


Yea, It's been quite a while since we talked. I'm getting really old but still hanging in there. I really hope you are doing well my friend.

P-J
Paul

 

[mattd2]

...The same element powered with 220V ...

I thought that US mains was regulated to 240V +/- 5% (so ~230 - 250V), Which would give 22 - 24A (all values rounded). Since you would be expecting some transmission losses I would not imagine you would be at the 24A mark unless you were brewing in a power station

 

[Tiber_Brew]

The 5500W element is rated for that wattage at 240V & will draw 22.9A.

I see. Didn't know they were rated with 240V specifically.

Yea, It's been quite a while since we talked. I'm getting really old but still hanging in there. I really hope you are doing well my friend.

P-J
Paul

I'm doing fine, thanks. Thanks again for helping out.

 

[BrewHaas]

I'm running 2 5500W elements with a 50A GFCI with no problems. My max usage for max volume is getting 19 gallons up to mash temp in 20 minutes. After that I'm coasting and it doesn't take as long to get to boil. I love this system.

 

[sTiNkFiZzle]

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[PacificNWBrewer]

Hello, love this forum! Great ideas and great people.

I have a question... In this link (http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/Baltobrewer's-Electric-Stand) the guy uses a CFC as both a HERMS and a chiller. I wondered why more people don't do this? I mean, a CFC is just a heat exchanger right... Instead of just cooling my wort when I'm done, I want to keep it hot or hotter while I'm brewing . Is it sanitation reasons? What do you guys think?

Also I know SS is better than copper but its a PiTA to bend to your will unless you buy it pre-made ($$$$) or have tools to make it so. Just wondering benefits to either.

I'm planning to build my ebrewery soon and have begun buying parts here and there as I go along.

Thanks again!
D

 

[NewBrewB]

the guy uses a CFC as both a HERMS and a chiller. I wondered why more people don't do this? I mean, a CFC is just a heat exchanger right... Instead of just cooling my wort when I'm done, I want to keep it hot or hotter while I'm brewing . Is it sanitation reasons? What do you guys think?

Also I know SS is better than copper but its a PiTA to bend to your will unless you buy it pre-made ($$$$) or have tools to make it so. Just wondering benefits to either.

I was asking this question a couple months ago. Now i am in the process of selling my immersion chillers. I had one as a prechiller in icewater and the other in the beer. Once i finished building my e-brewery, i tested out the herms. Basically, at some point during the boil, i hook up the hoses and sanitize a pump and the herms by pumping boiling wort through it and back into the boil keggle. After the boil, i fill my hlt with about 10gal of cold tap water and start the pump. As the pump runs, the 64 degree hlt and the bk start to even out. When it starts to feel like the temp is taking longer to adjust, i start draining a bucket of hot water out of the hlt and replacing it with a bucket of cold. After doing this about 3-4 times, the boil keggle is down to about 120 degrees. I fill up the hlt with cold water and then empty my icemaker into the bucket and dump it in the hlt. I then take the herms output coil hose into the carboy and slow the flow to a trickle. Beer comes out at about 80 degrees. By the time i fill two carboys and get them set up with a blanket and blowoff tubes, i am ready to pitch.

Making a herms from ss coil was the hardest part of the brewery. If you want a more informative rant, just pm me and i'll share whatever advice I can.

 

[dogwater]

Just read this thread P1, P20 onwards. Great build! Can you step me through your post-brew CIP process.?

Thanks!

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Just read this thread P1, P20 onwards. Great build!

Thanks!

Can you step me through your post-brew CIP process.?

Thanks!

Sure! I top off the HLT with more water after the sparge, and heat to about 170 during the boil. Once the boil is done I'll rinse the kettle and scrub any heavy debris out of it via the bottom dump valve. Then I take that hot water from the HLT and add PBW, then pump that mixture through all the valves, both pumps, the kettle, and the chiller. Empty, rinse with cold water, then pump cold water through the same route that I pumped the hot PBW water.

Lately I've been doing the CIP just prior to brew day, or the morning of. That way I know there isn't anything crawling, growing, or rotting in any of the equipment before I start to brew.

 

[dogwater]

...Then I take that hot water from the HLT and add PBW, then pump that mixture through all the valves, both pumps, the kettle, and the chiller. Empty, rinse with cold water, then pump cold water through the same route that I pumped the hot PBW water.

Sounds easy enough, anything that's difficult to clean or something you'd add to make it easier? Brewing is cleaning I always say, so anything that can make cleaning easier, makes brewing easier.

...Lately I've been doing the CIP just prior to brew day, or the morning of. That way I know there isn't anything crawling, growing, or rotting in any of the equipment before I start to brew.

Good idea. In the breweries and bev plants I have worked in, they CIP at the end of the day and leave the lines full of sanitizer till the next AM.

You've given me some great ideas for my build, I'm still collecting parts and I'll be sure to start a build thread when its time. Thanks TB.

 

[PacificNWBrewer]

So I decided to not buy/use an immersion chiller and instead is my HERMS to both heat and cool. During mashing the HERMS holds the temp I want. When mashing is finished, I run sparge water through it into the MLT to help clear out all the good liquid. After its transferred to the BK and I've started boiling, I run hot PBW throught the HERMS do about 10-15 minutes then rinse completely with fresh hot water. I save the PBW water for later. Ill even run sanitizer through it for a bit just to be sure its sterile. At the end of boil, i dump 3 bags of ice into my HLT with a small amount of water and recirculate the boiling wort though the coil to cool it. When the ice melts, wort is about 100-120 and I dumb the HLT water into my MT (use to help clean that later) and dump 3 more bags of ice over the coils. This gets me down to 70 and it only takes 5-7 minutes from flameout to fermenter. Works amazingly fast!!! At 70, I start adding o2 and it goes into the fermenter. Done and done.

That k you for the advice! It works very well!

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Sounds easy enough, anything that's difficult to clean or something you'd add to make it easier? Brewing is cleaning I always say, so anything that can make cleaning easier, makes brewing easier.

The most difficult to clean by far is the kettle. I just use hot water and a 3M pad to get the majority of the gunk off, then the subsequent PBW soak tends to take care of the rest. What's left behind after that is negligible.

Good idea. In the breweries and bev plants I have worked in, they CIP at the end of the day and leave the lines full of sanitizer till the next AM.

You could do that. You'll still need to do a thorough rinse the next morning, though (assuming you're using a cleanser, not a sanitizer).

You've given me some great ideas for my build, I'm still collecting parts and I'll be sure to start a build thread when its time. Thanks TB.

Sounds good! Glad to help.

TB

 

[GuernzWeed]

This build is fantastic and has giving me inspiration to start my own. Thank you Tiber, P-J, Kal, and everyone else who has shared their knowledge in this thread. I will be stealing all your great ideas for my own build. .

 

[freeokw]

Wow! Just discovered this thread. What a fantastic tutorial you've created. I'm now seriously considering the switch from manual propane to electric hermes.
Thanks for making this a viable option...rather than just a pipe dream.
Best regards,
Keith

 

[LBussy]

I just found/realized a new reason want electric: I tried to brew over the weekend (my returning batch of beer) and discovered (or re-remembered) that a propane tank simply will not heat up 6 gallons of wort to a boil in a snowstorm.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Glad this thread has helped you guys!

I'm sure you'll love brewing electric!

 

[homebrewdude76]

Do you find the 4500w elements sufficient for boiling? Or do you find yourself waiting?
Did you wish you went bigger on the element or doubled them up?

I have read through this, but to clarify the primary purpose of the 240v contractors are to void running 240v through the hand switch.

If I were to have 3 elements, but only able to run/control 2 at a time.
I would need 2 PID's, 2 SSR's but then 3 Contractors with a means to switch/lock-out only 2 elements.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Do you find the 4500w elements sufficient for boiling? Or do you find yourself waiting?
Did you wish you went bigger on the element or doubled them up?

I think the 4500W element is adequate for the HLT and is more than adequate for the BK. I'm considering getting a 5500W element to replace the 4500W in the HLT, and moving the existing one to the BK since the element in the BK will need replacement soon. But, the two 4500W elements have been just fine for almost 3 years of operation.

I have read through this, but to clarify the primary purpose of the 240v contractors are to void running 240v through the hand switch.

Exactly right. They are there to avoid sinking that kind of current to a switch that is toggled by the operator. Another measure of safety.

If I were to have 3 elements, but only able to run/control 2 at a time.
I would need 2 PID's, 2 SSR's but then 3 Contractors with a means to switch/lock-out only 2 elements.

If you're only going to be energizing two elements at a time, you'd still only need two contactors. You could utilize a selector switch for the 120V relay circuit for the contactor, which I would recommend.

Hope this helps.
TB

 

[kingbrew]

Quick question, what was the part number for the contactors?
Was it CN-PBC402-120V ?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Quick question, what was the part number for the contactors?
Was it CN-PBC402-120V ?

Yes.

Also, welcome to the forum!

 

[kingbrew]

Thanks!

It was this thread that brought me to homebrewtalk. I am making the jump from 5 gallon stove top to 10 gallon all grain and after reading this thread decided to go with your electric setup over propane. Just ordering all the parts now. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. Thanks for sharing your awesome setup!

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Thanks!

It was this thread that brought me to homebrewtalk. I am making the jump from 5 gallon stove top to 10 gallon all grain and after reading this thread decided to go with your electric setup over propane. Just ordering all the parts now. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. Thanks for sharing your awesome setup!

That's great! I'm glad my build helped. Hope your build goes well!

 

[kingbrew]

do you think you needed the 10" deep enclosure or could you have gotten away with 6 or 8 inches deep?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

do you think you needed the 10" deep enclosure or could you have gotten away with 6 or 8 inches deep?

You might be able to get away with 8", but unless you use all DIN components, I wouldn't go much less than that. Just a recommendation. It makes it easier to arrange and wire the components, and helps with thermal management. (My control panel is purely natural convection.)

 

[g-love]

Tiber, i'm still only half way through this thread, but it's awesome and it's answering so many of my own questions. Thanks for putting it together, and thanks to all the other people who are contributing as well.

edit - I answered my own question. Lol... This is a lot to wrap my head around at times...