Doughing In methods

[Hang Glider]

Okay, I did a moderate search, didn't find what I was looking for.

There are spoons and mash paddles and advice to watch out for 'dough balls' - but is there a reason NOT to electrify this process?

A fresh, clean paint mixer on an electric drill makes the job easier when dumping 10+ lbs of grain into my strike water - but does anyone know of a reason that this should be done more gentle, slower?

thanks for any and all comments!

 

[triethylborane]

Never had a dough ball in 6 years of AG brewing. I just dump the grain into the water-laden mash tun. If I got a dough ball Id just break it apart with my mash paddle, but for whatever reason, it hasn't happened.


If its not needed - you didnt specify whether dough balls were an issue for you - I wouldn't bother . . . thats a good enough reason for me.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I just under let. Works great. No need to spend much effort mixing because it hydrates so evenly.

 

[Hang Glider]

dough balls are not a problem at all for me - I'm just asking about the method - slow, steady stirring with a paddle vs. motorized stirring

 

[kh54s10]

There is the risk of hot side aeration. Many think it is a myth, others say they can detect off flavors from aerating the wort in the mash or boil. I don't know. I do know that doughballs have never been a big problem for me. I just dump all the grain into the strike water then break up any doughballs with my paddle or spoon against the side of the tun. I got an 18" stainless steel whisk last Christmas. It makes super easy work of breaking up any doughballs.

But I only do 5 gallon batches. It is not worth it to me to drag out a drill, mixer and then have to haul it back to the work bench.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

12 gallon batches, never had an issue. That said, a mash mixer (provided it was setup for the right speed, and right paddles - and not chomping hulls or making flour) would be a nice means to freeing up your hands while doughing in. I've mused on it but I have a lot of other things ahead of it.

ps: just did a quick google, here's one DIY from Morebeer.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

There is a lot of confidence here about never having dough balls- I believe that people don't find dry grain when emptying the MT, but I'm a nut for efficiency and good grain beds for HERMs so I use the paint stirrer to ensure uniform hydration. Lowes sells a big paddle mixer that fits in my cordless drill and mixes well at low speed. A few turns in a bucket before dumping into my MT. 30 seconds worth of work in a ferm bucket that I'm gonna have to clean anyway. Hot side oxidation is of little or no concern at this point with my method. Actual time stirring is less than 10 seconds and is very gentle. A little spiral paint mixer would be different but mine just lifts and spins the whole mass of grain. It's less of a pain than a spoon. I also use this paddle to help chill at the end of boil. HSA is a concern above 160 F, which an immersion chiller reached within seconds- stirring the wort really helps speed up the 140 down to 70 time.

 

[jalc6927]

Looks like it would work, I just pour in slowly while I stir a bit, and I use a bag inside my cooler

If I didn't use the bag I'd try it for sure.

 

[Nmnbrewer]

I've found that a large French whisk 20-24" works great. Way better than a paddle or spoon imo.

 

[jpakstis]

I've never had any dough balls and I use a wood paddle with holes in it (this one). I guess a drill with paint mixer could work, but what am I really saving? It takes about 30-45 seconds to dough in and there's something relaxing and traditional about it, like I'm following centuries (millenia?) of tradition. Plus I already have the paddle.

 

[mattdee1]

Mashing in is probably my least favorite part of the process, aside from maybe cleaning buckets.

I HATE breaking up dough balls, so I usually add the grain to the water in big scoops and stir it in as I go. If I can get a helper to pour the grain while I stir (or vice versa) that is the ideal setup for me.

 

[FVillatoro]

Mashing used to be a PITA with dough balls, and what solved that for me is a 24" stainless WHISK!

I dump the entire grain into the water trying to spread it around evenly, I then place the whisk in the middle and whirlpool vigorously until I create a vortex. You will see grain mixing in the middle and coming up from the corners back into the middle. After a minute it's a completely dough-ball free and I check my mash temperature and i'm dead on.

By far the easiest method and not one dough ball.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

It seems like most people add the grain to the water. Why? If you haven't tried underletting you really should. You can do it with gravity or a pump. You add the grain to the tun and then pump or drain the water into the MLT outlet so that it hydrates from the bottom up. I usually give it a light stir to make sure the grain bed is even but that is about it.

 

[day_trippr]

I agree, underletting the strike water seems to prevent dough balls and dry spots from even forming and makes dough-in an easy, one handed affair.
I don't understand why that is, but bottom line my mash paddle has been totally neglected this year...

Cheers!

 

[logdrum]

+1 on the underletting, I was skeptical at first, but amazingly, by the time the tun is full, the grain is fully hydrated. A quick stir to mitigate heat stratification & I'm good to go.

 

[FVillatoro]

Under letting y'all say? Do dough balls or dry spots form? I know it's a method of doing LODO brewing, but I haven't tried it myself. Interesting!

 

[Konadog]

...You add the grain to the tun and then pump or drain the water into the MLT outlet so that it hydrates from the bottom up. I usually give it a light stir to make sure the grain bed is even but that is about it.

Is it really that easy? That would totally save my back not lifting my 10 gallon cooler.

 

[jtratcliff]

I BIAB with *almost* full volume mashing... never a problem w/ dough balls... I think my typical mash thickness is around 2.5 qt/lb. Just a gentle stir w/ a long handled slotted spoon is all that is needed.

That said, the LODO folks are preaching underletting, bigly, for reducing effects of oxidation even at the mash stage. So if you subscribe to the idea that oxidation during the mash is bad, then any "violent" agitation would have negative effects.

I'm too RDWHAHB for that. So I dump in my grains and stir.

 

[illin8]

I just started underletting (I have a bottom drain keggle for MLT)... Very very pleased, a lot better I'M HOME plus you don't get as much grain dust in the air

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Is it really that easy? That would totally save my back not lifting my 10 gallon cooler.

Yes. I have 30+ gallon kettles and brew with at least 30# of grain per batch.

I BIAB with *almost* full volume mashing... never a problem w/ dough balls... I think my typical mash thickness is around 2.5 qt/lb. Just a gentle stir w/ a long handled slotted spoon is all that is needed.

That said, the LODO folks are preaching underletting, bigly, for reducing effects of oxidation even at the mash stage. So if you subscribe to the idea that oxidation during the mash is bad, then any "violent" agitation would have negative effects.

I'm too RDWHAHB for that. So I dump in my grains and stir.

I am definitely NOT a LODO brewer. I do spund the end of fermentation and get excessive during keg purge and such but I recirc my mash in a eHERMS setup and even SPLASH the sparge water onto my grain bed during my fly sparge.

I just started underletting (I have a bottom drain keggle for MLT)... Very very pleased, a lot better I'M HOME plus you don't get as much grain dust in the air

I dump my grain into the tun and then slam the lid on as fast as I can to contain the dust. It does a pretty good job!

I agree, underletting the strike water seems to prevent dough balls and dry spots from even forming and makes dough-in an easy, one handed affair.
I don't understand why that is, but bottom line my mash paddle has been totally neglected this year...

Cheers!

I'm with you. Don't understand why. I used to have tons of dough balls from dumping the grain onto the water but not any more. I haven't changed my mill settings at all either. I run a MM2-2.0 with a gap of .030 and do not condition my grain powered by a .75hp 1750rpm motor through a 10:1 gear drive. I get a great crush and lots of flour. Since I started underletting the clumps are gone. I love it.

+1 on the underletting, I was skeptical at first, but amazingly, by the time the tun is full, the grain is fully hydrated. A quick stir to mitigate heat stratification & I'm good to go.

I often add salts to my mash so the stir helps to disperse those as well for me. I don't work at it. Just makes me fell good.

Under letting y'all say? Do dough balls or dry spots form? I know it's a method of doing LODO brewing, but I haven't tried it myself. Interesting!

Nope. Like I mentioned earlier I'm not heavy into the LODO stuff. I do some of it, but then again I always have done it, so it's not like I'm blanketing the mash or preventing ALL splashing. My sparge water drips down aggressively into the MLT during the fly sparge.

I also don't worry about the length of my fly sparge. It usually takes me 30-40 minutes to complete depending on the batch size (10-18 gallons packaged batch size) and I get good mash and boil kettle efficiency. Some people get all weird about making sure things take the "right amount of time." If a commercial brewery sparged at 5-10 gallons per hour.... Anyway I digress.

 

[MaryB]

I do 11 gallon batches and start with ~ 21 pounds of grain in 2 buckets. First bucket gets dumped in and a quick stir. Second I take a little time and dump and stir for 5 minutes. I might get a dough ball now and then but rare! Last 2 batches no dough balls at all. But I also prefer a wetter mash... 7.5 gallons of water last batch to 20.25 pounds of grain for my house bitter. 1.5 quarts/pound give or take...

 

[Hang Glider]

Never even thought about underletting - I LIKE that, I'll be trying that next batch !!!

 

[seatazzz]

Never even thought about underletting - I LIKE that, I'll be trying that next batch !!!

I use a 16 gallon blue extract barrel for my mash tun with a bag, false bottom, and one of those windshield sun guards wrapped around it to help hold the heat. I've underlet the last two batches and couldn't be happier. No dough balls, no standing there with a heavy grain bucket propped up gradually adding the grain (I brew alone, with apologies to George Thorogood). Once the water is all in it's a snap to stir it up. I'm losing a bit more heat since I'm not preheating the tun but I will probably do that next batch; run the water in, then out with the pump, then add the grain and the water again.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I see lots of talk of underletting. It sounds ideal, but I have a couple thoughts I'd love to hear feedback on before I try it.

First, are most of you using this technique using false bottoms or manifolds? I mash in a rectangular cooler with a brew bag. Will underletting still work with that system?

Second, I usually preheat my mash tun, dump out the preheat water, add the mash water at a temp a few degrees above the desired strike temp. I do this because the first batch I brewed I tried adding the strike water at exactly the desired strike temp and, after dumping it into the MLT, it was a couple degrees low. Also, will the fact that the interior of the cooler MLT is wet prior to adding the grains mess things up?

 

[seatazzz]

I see lots of talk of underletting. It sounds ideal, but I have a couple thoughts I'd love to hear feedback on before I try it.

First, are most of you using this technique using false bottoms or manifolds? I mash in a rectangular cooler with a brew bag. Will underletting still work with that system?

Second, I usually preheat my mash tun, dump out the preheat water, add the mash water at a temp a few degrees above the desired strike temp. I do this because the first batch I brewed I tried adding the strike water at exactly the desired strike temp and, after dumping it into the MLT, it was a couple degrees low. Also, will the fact that the interior of the cooler MLT is wet prior to adding the grains mess things up?

I use both a bag and a false bottom, the bottom mainly to keep the bag off the bazooka in the bottom of the tun. But the method would work without them too.

I didn't pre-heat the tun for the last two batches and at end of mash my temp had gone down from 160 to 148. So next time I will preheat by adding the strike water, letting it sit for a few, then pump it back into the HLT and add the grain, then pump the water back in.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I use both a bag and a false bottom, the bottom mainly to keep the bag off the bazooka in the bottom of the tun. But the method would work without them too.

I didn't pre-heat the tun for the last two batches and at end of mash my temp had gone down from 160 to 148. So next time I will preheat by adding the strike water, letting it sit for a few, then pump it back into the HLT and add the grain, then pump the water back in.

Rather than pump the water back and forth, you can just preheat with hot tap water...at least that's what I've been doing. I run my cooler about 1/4 full of the hottest water from the tap and let it sit until I'm ready to mash. Just dump it out and go.

 

[seatazzz]

Rather than pump the water back and forth, you can just preheat with hot tap water...at least that's what I've been doing. I run my cooler about 1/4 full of the hottest water from the tap and let it sit until I'm ready to mash. Just dump it out and go.

Don't know why I didn't think of that. I fill my HLT with water directly from the hot water heater in the garage...will just run it into the tun from there and use it for cleaning later. Brilliant!