Do you find beer brewing too complex?

[kh54s10]

As far as "no discernable difference", I beg to differ. I am making commercial quality beer that I would hold up proudly against anything you can buy. I'm not trying for "this is good for something made in your garage".
Prost!

Your experience may be different than many. I have brewed extract on the stove. Partial mash on the stove. 3 vessel propane all grain, BIAB. I have had equal results with all of them as far as being able to brew a great beer. My 3 vessel all grain did have the most consistency though. I now have an electric recirculating BIAB system (Unibrau) I haven't finished any yet so I don't know how it is going to compare.

 

[LittleRiver]

...I look at all this brewing discussion here and it looks like you need to be a scientist to do it with plenty of space and $$...

As you can see from the discussion so far, the enjoyment of brewing is not found in only one way.

Some people love geeking out with the hardware, and build brewing rigs that are festooned with electronics, pumps, etc. I get that, it's fun to design and build things. Other folks (sometimes it's the same folks) go deep into the into the chemistry of brewing. There's nothing wrong with any of that -- if they're having fun they're doing it right. But is all of that necessary for brewing excellent beer? No, it's not.

I take joy in removing complexity from my brewing, and intentionally look for ways to simplify my rig and my process. I design & build things for a living, so I don't need to scratch that itch with my brewing.

...I made some easy peezy ginger beer... What else can be brewed VERY easy?

Most any style of beer you want can be brewed very easily on a simple BIAB rig.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Your experience may be different than many. I have brewed extract on the stove. Partial mash on the stove. 3 vessel propane all grain, BIAB. I have had equal results with all of them as far as being able to brew a great beer. My 3 vessel all grain did have the most consistency though. I now have an electric recirculating BIAB system (Unibrau) I haven't finished any yet so I don't know how it is going to compare.

I have made some very enjoyable homebrews from extract-and-grains. I liked them, my friends liked them, and I have not ruled out doing that method again in the future for one-offs. THat said, I would not consider any extract beer I ever made (or have ever had from other brewers) to be commercial quality. By commercial quality, I mean from big breweries, because the vast majority of new nanobreweries popping up in neighborhoods all over the country are turning out mediocre product (yes, you can dry hop the crap out of my morning piss and call it an NEIPA and most people would still buy it).
But that aside, going to all-grain, using fresh, high-quality ingredients, I noticed a dramatic qualitative improvement over extract-and-grains.
I further noticed (a less dramatic, but still noticeable) improvement when I started paying attention to water chemistry and pH.
I noticed further improvement when I started reducing oxidative damage to my beer.

But all that came at the cost of a dramatic increase in complexity and time required to produce.

That said, someone who is not attuned to flavor nuances or who is just looking for something they can drink in quantities with their friends and catch a buzz and proudly say "yup, I made that", may not appreciate or even care about the improvements or may feel that a small improvement isn't worth the large additional investment of effort (we all have to decide where we stop on the scale of diminishing returns).

For me it is. YMMV.

***BUT...making decent to even pretty good beer doesn't have to be all that complicated. It's only as complex as you make it.

 

[Zambezi Special]

As easy as your ginger beet? Cider from packs of juice (someone else mentioned it as well), bread yeast and sugar. I've had some very nice ones and some terrible ones (read the label, and don't use the ones with sodium benzoate added )

Beer, I brew BIAB. First batch with existing pots and pans, mashing by putting the whole pot in a coolbox, cooling the stuff down by using that same coolbox but now with the garden hose in it for cooling (and ice blocks)
I do use an old fridge as fermenting chamber, but that is because our temperatures fluctuate enormously and I don't have aircon. And I had an old fridge and regulator lying around (inkbird)
I do have power cuts though, so I will keep most manual and I just hope that the fermentation fridge stays more or less cool during those cuts.

By the way, to my big surprise some of my ciders came out very nice even though the day temperature went over 43 oC (indoors and outdoors)

Not so much on topic, but I have the idea that climate played quite an important role way back when....
There got to be a reason for most of the Northern European countries brewing beer, and the Southern countries making wine..., (besides grapes not doing very well in the Northern countries)

 

[kh54s10]

I have made some very enjoyable homebrews from extract-and-grains. I liked them, my friends liked them, and I have not ruled out doing that method again in the future for one-offs. THat said, I would not consider any extract beer I ever made (or have ever had from other brewers) to be commercial quality. By commercial quality, I mean from big breweries, because the vast majority of new nanobreweries popping up in neighborhoods all over the country are turning out mediocre product (yes, you can dry hop the crap out of my morning piss and call it an NEIPA and most people would still buy it).

For me it is. YMMV.

***BUT...making decent to even pretty good beer doesn't have to be all that complicated. It's only as complex as you make it.

Again that is your experience. One of my extract and specialty grain brews that I did in 2011 I would still rank in my top 10 maybe even as high as #5. I would say it was better than ANY commercial beer I have ever tasted. (I don't buy the 22 oz bottles of commercial bottle that cost $20 though.) I also rank most of my brews better than most of the $10 - $15 six pack commercial beers without all the pH, LODO stuff. I don't even purge anything with co2

I admit that I don't have much of a discerning palate, I would guess that most homebrewers also don't.

So for me it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money to make my already better than commercial beers better. I do what I can without going to great expense or hassle.

Everyone has their own needs. Mine are not as great as yours.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Again that is your experience. One of my extract and specialty grain brews that I did in 2011 I would still rank in my top 10 maybe even as high as #5. I would say it was better than ANY commercial beer I have ever tasted. (I don't buy the 22 oz bottles of commercial bottle that cost $20 though.) I also rank most of my brews better than most of the $10 - $15 six pack commercial beers without all the pH, LODO stuff. I don't even purge anything with co2

I admit that I don't have much of a discerning palate, I would guess that most homebrewers also don't.

So for me it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money to make my already better than commercial beers better. I do what I can without going to great expense or hassle.

Everyone has their own needs. Mine are not as great as yours.

And the most important thing is that you are happy with the beer you are producing and see no need (or maybe even see it as not possible) to improve it.
And that's a great place to be.

 

[kh54s10]

And the most important thing is that you are happy with the beer you are producing and see no need (or maybe even see it as not possible) to improve it.
And that's a great place to be.

Thanks, As far as improvement I am sure my beers can be improved. But I am taking small steps. I don't have the funds to rework my entire system for what to me would be a small improvement (probably - as I have never tasted a LODO beer.)

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Thanks, As far as improvement I am sure my beers can be improved. But I am taking small steps. I don't have the funds to rework my entire system for what to me would be a small improvement (probably - as I have never tasted a LODO beer.)

I'm in a similar boat - I do infusion step mashes but I am dying for a HERMS setup. I just haven't been able to justify the expense. We all work with what we have, and each brewer has to decide where he stops on the scale of diminishing returns.

 

[Zambezi Special]

I couldn't resist:
Simple simple set up for apple cider:

 

[Saunassa]

Korean makgeolli is easy, just have to buy a bag of nuruk which is available online or in Korean markets.
Soak and steam sushi/glutinous rice, let cool, pack into a jar, mix some nuruk and bread yeast in plus some water and let it rock. The rice and nuruk are the key.

 

[Saunassa]

I made pale ale and cream ale in extract and partial mash kits to begin with. Fermenter with airlock, my wife's 'repurposed' stock pot,a thermometer and hydrometer and an autosiphon. After that whatever recipe kit I wanted.
I have just bought other things to make it easier like a bottling bucket and wand. Since I like to geek out on things and wanted to brew things differently I bought other equipment that is not really needed to brew good beer.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

OP, to each their own brother. Hobbies(and life in general) are about doing what makes you happy so brew the way you want. I've been brewing about 2 years and have progressed pretty quickly with the technical stuff. For me that's enjoyable, learning as much as possible in hopes it'll improve my beer. I really want to make really good beer because I got into this because I was so into the craft beer scene, and if my beer isn't an adequate substitute for that I probably won't keep doing it long term. And I think my beer has gotten quite good as I've dialed in my process.

My FIL on the other hand has been brewing for 7-8 years or so, and still does extract. He's commented many times that he just doesn't want to do all-grain like I do because he just doesn't think it's worth it and thinks his beer is good. His beer being good is debatable haha(my wife really dislikes it) but that is due to some flaws in his process, but most importantly he likes it and is happy. Good beer can definitely be produced without sweating every detail.

 

[wepeeler]

OP, to each their own brother. Hobbies(and life in general) are about doing what makes you happy so brew the way you want. I've been brewing about 2 years and have progressed pretty quickly with the technical stuff. For me that's enjoyable, learning as much as possible in hopes it'll improve my beer. I really want to make really good beer because I got into this because I was so into the craft beer scene, and if my beer isn't an adequate substitute for that I probably won't keep doing it long term. And I think my beer has gotten quite good as I've dialed in my process.

My FIL on the other hand has been brewing for 7-8 years or so, and still does extract. He's commented many times that he just doesn't want to do all-grain like I do because he just doesn't think it's worth it and thinks his beer is good. His beer being good is debatable haha(my wife really dislikes it) but that is due to some flaws in his process, but most importantly he likes it and is happy. Good beer can definitely be produced without sweating every detail.

Maybe your FIL needs to dry hop during fermentation for better beer! I'm kidding, of course

OP, as others have said, do you man. Every brewer gets comfortable doing what works for them, and just like anything else, you'll get better with practice and continue to do what works for you. That's the beauty of brewing. It's literally just cooking. We all can make chicken parm, but I'm sure we all make it a little differently.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Maybe your FIL needs to dry hop during fermentation for better beer! I'm kidding, of course

Haha that's funny man. He should definitely try that and also remove the chlorine from his brewing water

 

[WhiteRhyno]

For me, its the complexity that I love!

I love tinkering around down in the basement/brewery, even when I am not brewing. The whole science of it is never ending. I doubt I will ever learn everything there is to know about this fine craft.

Today for example, I just made myself a mini hop-cannon. Pretty stoked with the outcome, from bits and pieces I had lying around. These are the sorts of things I love doing, fine tuning everything until you can produce the perfect beer.

Each to their own

 

[balrog]

Repeatability sometimes requires a little complexity for stability and/or ease of executability. YMMV.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm the kind of guy who will take a hobby to the extremes. I started with a Northern Brewer extract kit, a basic kettle, bottle conditioning.

Today I have a RIMS system to control the mash, a conical fermenter, electric brewing, a steam catcher so I can brew inside my garage in the winter, a glycol system to chill the fermenter--and a great keezer with beer always on tap.

But you know what? Along the way I did Brew-In-A-Bag, and I produced some pretty good beer doing that. It's a very simple all-grain method, and pretty easy and relatively quick.

I miss that. A brew day used to be 3.5 hours max from starting setup to done with cleanup. Today, with the more "advanced" system, a 5-hour brew day is lucky.

I might even have enjoyed brewing more back in those days.

 

[Sebastian Weetabix]

Beer is like SEX. The first time will be quite fun, but the more you learn, the BETTER it gets!

And if you do it wrong, you STILL get screwed!

 

[Jokester]

I find it complex to start with a grain, so much so, I have never done it. I am starting with a beer and making a Brut out of it.
So far I am yet to find anything go bad, but the last 4 batches of one bottle, I have not even washed the bottles. I also cover it with a shopping bag and leave it in the corner on the kitchen counter with an airlock, and wait till the airlock goes flat. Usually it goes in PET bottles then and gets frozen, however I also have put some of those that don't taste better when freeze concentrated into camlock bottles and a few grains of sugar and let it carbonate a week, then fridge.
Nothing has so far gone bad. There is a thick layer of yeast on the bottom, and I leave maybe 1/4" of the old beer and add 120oz of warm beer and amg. It literally takes off like a rocket at that point with carbonation escaping first just as fermentation takes hold and it flies through the 1.00 in 4 weeks.
I actually am not even sure I need to star sani the PET, cos they immediately get frozen. The camlock bottles I star sani of course cos they're outside for a week+ with more sugar. The camlock bottles have a yeast cake on the bottom as well after that week. I'm confused more than worried, in the bottle yeast multiplied so much to leave a 1/8th" cake in a week ? It is lightly carbonated at that point, should I put in more sugar and/or leave it longer ?

Cool.
Srinath.