Do you consider electric/automated brewing equipment to be cheating?

[odie]

cheating?

Electric? no.

Automated? yes.

 

[lumpher]

I'm not sure why someone who has been using a 3-vessel system for years and has developed a process that works well and gives them results that they're happy with would want to switch, but I'm also not sure what that has to do with the original question.

Mostly time available and what we can invest in it. I still have my 3 piece system, but I use my AIO mostly because I can tell it what to do, keep it at a certain temp, and not have to watch it, turn the propane up or down, etc. A flip of a switch or open a valve and I can go back to other things that need doing. Right now I couldn't brew if I had to concentrate on it for 4-5 hours, but I will again at some point, so willing to have both.

 

[marc1]

Wooden vats!? Lucky you! Anything other than clay and reeds is cheating.
View attachment 842257

We were evicted from our hole in the ground; we had to go live in the lake.



Seriously though, not cheating.

There's plenty to tweak if you want to, plus the whole cold side process you can obsess about.

 

[day_trippr]

There's dumb stuff like using post-boil wheat flour that might be considered cheating - though I'd call it unethical - or maybe using artificial extracts in place of real fruit derived products. But equipment evolves and exploiting same can't be considered cheating, lest literally everything in use today be considered cheating vs the primitive gear and methodologies of days deservedly gone by...

Cheers!

 

[lumpher]

I remember back in the days when REAL men brewed beer and we had to start the mash

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I understand that when the first boxed cake mixes came out, they were widely rejected. The women thought that just adding water, stirring it up, putting it in a hot oven on a timer was “cheating”.
A lot of market research was done and the product was changed. Now, the good lady had to supply, crack, and stir in her own egg! She was now involved in the ingredients and mixing. It wouldn’t work without her input. Box cakes became a wildly popular success!

So, just add your egg, stir, and brew on!

 

[Control Freak]

Look to the left.
Answer, Nope

 

[sibelman]

Buying commercial beer is definitely cheating.

 

[Broken Crow]

I remember back in the days when REAL men brewed beer and we had to start the mashView attachment 842333

 

[JAReeves]

I think the internet is cheating...
We should require these discussions be carried out via US Mail.

Cheating.

Carrier Pigeon or nothing.

 

[ITV]

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I said 'yes', but it's not bad cheating. Lemme explain... It's not what you would call traditional, but it's not what our beer fathers did. I have a controller for my bbq, but I wouldn't say it's not 'real' bbq. Much like I wouldn't say automation for Beer isn't real, it's just getting some help. So it's not like cheating, cheating - more of an advantage.

 

[PCABrewing]

Cheating.

Carrier Pigeon or nothing.

But carrier pigeon is possibly faster than USPS and probably makes fewer delivery errors.

(I apologize if I offend any USPS team members on here but my route is a mess whenever the regular carrier is off.)

 

[day_trippr]

^don't even get me started on the USPS^

 

[passedpawn]

View attachment 842363

I read his books, and loved the stories about him. Great guy.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

We were evicted from our hole in the ground; we had to go live in the lake.

 

[ClaudiusB]

I love automation and have never brewed in over 20 years without it. For some of us, a temperature controller is it and for others sending a grain bill to the grain processing system is required to get the correct grain milled and delivered to the mashtun.
My first brewing computer exposure was in the early 90th, two pics.
I was ridiculed on Homebrewtalk for supporting automation, and shiny brewing equipment after I joined. The same people have migrated to the same shiny equipment from plastic buckets and I never told them they were wasting their kids' college
funds.

 

[HM-2]

AIO electric brewing systems are "cheating" in the same way that having a car that starts at the turn of a key or push of a button instead of needing to be manually cranked with a handle is "cheating".

Or cooking food in a sous vide instead of manually controlling the temperature of water in a pan for 12 hours is.

And that way is "not".

 

[whoaru99]

Only if you feel like you're cheating yourself out of some other experience.

 

[sibelman]

Only if you feel like you're cheating yourself out of some other experience.

This!

I get that some folks love automation, and/or want to brew like the big boys. I love some automation but don't want it to go too far. [insert skillful analogy to vibrators here]

I want to feel involved in the process, but also to automate tasks that feel burdensome. That's a movable boundary for sure.

As part of a fancy kitchen remodel, my cousin bought a built-in espresso-drink machine. Just push a button. Too easy? Cheating?

If a machine or process makes beer well and allows for improvement, go for it. If it locks you in and limits your options, maybe it's too automated.

 

[ClaudiusB]

This!

I get that some folks love automation, and/or want to brew like the big boys. I love some automation but don't want it to go too far. [insert skillful analogy to vibrators here]

I want to feel involved in the process, but also to automate tasks that feel burdensome. That's a movable boundary for sure.

As part of a fancy kitchen remodel, my cousin bought a built-in espresso-drink machine. Just push a button. Too easy? Cheating?

If a machine or process makes beer well and allows for improvement, go for it. If it locks you in and limits your options, maybe it's too automated.

"I want to feel involved in the process, but also to automate tasks that feel burdensome."
I do give the brewer a choice to be involved, but the automation is watching over the brewer in the background.
The system may not let the brewer proceed if switches are set wrong or sensors are malfunctioning.
The automatic water, hops, and grain deliveries are disabled. The brewer has to, based on the recipe, get the grains from the silos or storage containers, weigh the different grains, and put them into the mill. After milling the operator lets the system know to transport the milled grains to the mash tun, 35ft.
The same applies to the correct brewing water volume, hops, etc.
The pictures below are from the control room, the brewery has different displays.

 

[MicroMickey]

Are you growing your own grain? Do you harvest that grain and malt it? Do you crush that malt under a large mill stone? Do you collect pond water for your brewing? Do you fell trees for firewood instead of using electricity or propane? Perhaps we're all cheaters.

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

Are you growing your own grain? Do you harvest that grain and malt it? Do you crush that malt under a large mill stone? Do you collect pond water for your brewing? Do you fell trees for firewood instead of using electricity or propane? Perhaps we're all cheaters.

Don't forget forging your own kettle.

 

[JAReeves]

Don't knock blacksmithing in your back yard; it worked for Nero.

 

[sibelman]

the control room, the brewery

I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in. Though (as my posts above indicate) this is not really my kind of thing, I'm a bit curious. Care to post a link to more about the system you've highlighted?

 

[ClaudiusB]

I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in. Though (as my posts above indicate) this is not really my kind of thing, I'm a bit curious. Care to post a link to more about the system you've highlighted?

"I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in." This is for my home brewing system. I write my brewery applications for the hardware I use to meet my requirements. All the control hardware for the brewery I purchased from Automation Direct.
AutomationDierect
In 1990 I used a different brand of controllers which I quickly replaced after a short time with AD.

 

[lumpher]

Don't knock blacksmithing in your back yard; it worked for Nero.

He didn't do it professionally. He just fiddled around with it while his forge burned.

 

[FugacityBrews]

"I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in." This is for my home brewing system. I write my brewery applications for the hardware I use to meet my requirements. All the control hardware for the brewery I purchased from Automation Direct.
AutomationDierect
In 1990 I used a different brand of controllers which I quickly replaced after a short time with AD.

You’re running your three vessel system with a PLC? That’s kind of badass.

 

[sibelman]

Automation Direct.

A quick look suggests you can get a lot going on for not a giant amount of cash with their PLC stuff. Have you got electric valves too?

 

[ClaudiusB]

You’re running your three vessel system with a PLC? That’s kind of badass.

I use multiple PLCs to cut down on running too many very long cables. The controllers are connected through powerline ethernet modules for data sharing. The brewing and grain processing system can be controlled locally without going through the control room, worldwide access is also possible.
"You’re running your three vessel system" A few more. I have a separate Whirlpool tank and a second mash tun too.