DMS Threat

[ferrarimobile]

Hey all, I recently brewed an all-grain Munich Helles using 95% Pilsner malt, 5% Munich and a little Melanoiden malt, mashed 60 minutes, sparge for 35 minutes, 83.5 brewhouse efficiency. While listening to the Jamil show, I misinterpreted what he said regarding boil time. I always boil 90 minutes. But this time I boiled 60 minutes, as he stated he now used a counter-flow chiller and went to 60 minute boils. I took one gallon out and boiled it for closer to 75 minutes, after 45 minutes, it reduced 1/2 gallon I went back into the main boil kettle with it. It started out as 8 gallons but reduced to about 6.5 gallons due to evaporation. I had a small issue with my plate chiller and the wort sat for 10 minutes before I could crash cool - 5 minutes to get to 68 through the plate chiller. So in all, the wort took 15 minutes to cool. I am a total nut when it comes to process and cleanliness. Everything else went perfectly. Pitched at 55 about an hour & 1/2 later a full 400 billion cells.

What is the likelihood of me having a problem with DMS? I don't want to wait 3 months to ferment and lager the beer and find out is tastes bad. This is a competition brew. I'm freaking out.

 

[maida7]

RDWHAHB Really there is nothing you can do about it now.

 

[dzlater]

The only problem was it took 15 minutes to chill down to 68?
I wish I had that problem.
Or am I missing something?

 

[ferrarimobile]

On the one hand, I appreciate taking the time to respond, but that really doesn't answer the question of the likelihood of DMS given the factors I described. I'm clearly aware that there is nothing I can do about it now.

On the other hand, I am torn between sentiments, every piece of literature talks about the general factors contributing to DMS production long boil time quick cooling etc., but 15 minutes from boil to 68 sounds fast to me, too. Zainasheff recommends "crash cooling" the wort if using a 60 minute boil. Would 10 minutes sitting at near boiling contribute to DMS is the real question.

 

[maida7]

On the one hand, I appreciate taking the time to respond, but that really doesn't answer the question of the likelihood of DMS given the factors I described. I'm clearly aware that there is nothing I can do about it now.

On the other hand, I am torn between sentiments, every piece of literature talks about the general factors contributing to DMS production long boil time quick cooling etc., but 15 minutes from boil to 68 sounds fast to me, too. Zainasheff recommends "crash cooling" the wort if using a 60 minute boil. Would 10 minutes sitting at near boiling contribute to DMS is the real question.

There are several factors. Too many to accurately predict the final outcome. The best you can do at this point is to wait for the beer to be finished and see how it tastes. The taste of the finished beer will answer your question. Anything you get on this thread is just a guess. So once again, RDWHAHB

 

[smiths9312]

I don't think I'd worry about it. I don't chill most of my brews and I've yet to detect the dreaded DMS. Then again, I boil pilsner for 90 minutes.

If you are worried, take a sample, give a taste and swish it around your mouth. No vegetable? You are good to go, unless it gets contaminated somewhere down the line.

 

[RobBug]

To achieve failure in any en-devour, one must meet many "fail switches" to achieve failure.

In other words, if it took you 15 minutes to cool the wort and everything else went peaches and creme, I would not worry about it at all. Seriously.

Edit: and here is a great article on DMS etc:

DMS wiki

I am positive you have seen it already but I do want to point out one paragraph -

Quote: The DMS produced during the hot wort stand will stay in solution even if the hot wort tank is vented. For every extra hour of hot wort stand, a DMS increase of approximately 30% will result. The level of DMS in the wort determines the level of DMS in finished beer. In order to predict the level of DMS in finished beer Table V shows the relationship between SMM in malt and DMS in beer.

So you could ratio your time to get an idea of the percentage increase to determine if you may have more DMS. But meh, I am just fueling your obsession to determine if your beer may go south sorry heh.

When you do keg it / bottle it, I would love to hear about the results. Suscribed.

 

[maida7]

When you do keg it / bottle it, I would love to hear about the results. Suscribed.

Ditto! Please post your results.

 

[ferrarimobile]

I will post in a couple of months when the Helles is tapped. It's bubbling away in the garage at a steady 50 degrees now, 6 days later.

When I look at my process in the past, how many learning experiences I have had, I obviously can see that I'm probably worrying over nothing. I've done WAY worse and still won awards with my brews. I'm a little paranoid and obsessive about process, so since this is the one and only thing I have done wrong during this brew, its the one thing I'm focusing on. I mean, I'm the guy who pitches the exact recommended yeast cells per batch based on Plato, adjusts RO deionized water to the desired profile, researches his brews for hours putting together a recipe, and scours the internet for the exact ingredients and does not compromise or substitute. Do all that and then have DMS? Argh!

It all comes down to the Brewing Network http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Munich-Helles-The-Jamil-Show-09-25-06 on brewing Helles where he says that now that he has this nifty new counter-flow chiller, he only boils for 60 minutes. Even though the bone head constantly writes about 90 minute boils to reduce DMS. So he thinks its better to have the whole wort chill a little more slowly then cool only what passes through the chiller (all be in it 5 MINUTES!!!) . Actually sounds preposterous now that I think of it. But other than that, I find Jamil to be really helpful, informative, and his recipes are top notch.

 

[midfielder5]

Others have said that he wants to sell the Cfc product. I have no opinion one way or the other; i could just be repeating Internet rumours.

 

[dzlater]

JZ does contradict himself at times.
He would probably tell you to just dump it out because it's not perfect
and then tell a story of how he had a beer that was undrinkable but forgot
about the keg , found it 5 years later and it was amazingly delicious.

 

[ejearn]

Hey all, I recently brewed an all-grain Munich Helles using 95% Pilsner malt, 5% Munich and a little Melanoiden malt, mashed 60 minutes, sparge for 35 minutes, 83.5 brewhouse efficiency. While listening to the Jamil show, I misinterpreted what he said regarding boil time. I always boil 90 minutes. But this time I boiled 60 minutes, as he stated he now used a counter-flow chiller and went to 60 minute boils. I took one gallon out and boiled it for closer to 75 minutes, after 45 minutes, it reduced 1/2 gallon I went back into the main boil kettle with it. It started out as 8 gallons but reduced to about 6.5 gallons due to evaporation. I had a small issue with my plate chiller and the wort sat for 10 minutes before I could crash cool - 5 minutes to get to 68 through the plate chiller. So in all, the wort took 15 minutes to cool. I am a total nut when it comes to process and cleanliness. Everything else went perfectly. Pitched at 55 about an hour & 1/2 later a full 400 billion cells.

What is the likelihood of me having a problem with DMS? I don't want to wait 3 months to ferment and lager the beer and find out is tastes bad. This is a competition brew. I'm freaking out.

Wow, I never would have viewed what you are describing as a problem! RDWHAHB!

 

[chefmike]

I went through a whole sack of pilsner boiling 60 minutes. no issues, though I was not doing such a clean beer. I would have tasted corn in my pale ale.

YMMV, but I would say relax. It is great that it is a competition beer, as the judge will be looking for that DMS. This is a great feedback from some "reasonably" impartial folks.

I would email jz as well and see if he was referencing brewing with pilsner or if he had just shared a few to many and was selling the chiller!