Decoction Mash = increased efficiency

[shivalotus]

Anyone else see an increase in efficiency with a decoction mash vs. a step infusion?

 

[BrewerinBR]

I certainly see an increase...

 

[Northcalais40]

I haven't. There are ways to maximize your efficiency, which are oft discussed in various threads you can search, but you should normalize your system and arrive at your consistent efficiency and do a decoction mash as a separate issue, because it is fun and probably makes for a different tasting beverage.

 

[badmajon]

I'd just buy the extra half pound of grain. Decoction = schlep.

 

[Mysticmead]

yep, I notice an increase. not to mention flavor that get developed during the decoction that you just can't duplicate any other way.

 

[CidahMastah]

Just curious about this - for those who do a decoction. What are your top 3-4 reasons for doing so? It seems like a lot of constant monitoring and work versus a regular brew day. I guess I am not sure what the benefit would be, at the cost of the time.

For me efficiency wouldn't be a good enough reason for all that extra work.

Thanks!

 

[Northcalais40]

Cidah:

1 I can raise the temp of a mash with out adding water. My last brew was 24# of grist in a ten gallon rubbermaid, so I had 1/2" of room before overflow.

2 It necessary for some recipes, flavorwise.

3 It's an immemorial custom of the trade.

If you've never tried it, do. It isn't that much extra work. I've used Braukaser.com's method for a Hochkurz mash, several times and liked it. The mash ended up taking 1:45. Slower than most, but you can't call it work.

 

[LizardBrew83]

I definately notice a small increase in efficiency, maybe 5%, but nothing crazy. I usally get 85% compared to 80%. I feel that it is important to do a decoction mash for most german or czech beers, because of the flavor created can't be duplicated any other way. I made an octoberfest as my first all-grain beer using a step infusion mash and the malt profile was boring compared to the malty, bready, and caramel sweet of a traditional german octoberfest. Now I use it for all my bocks, pilseners or any big malty lagers. For an ale, though, I think the yeast and other factors would interferere with the flavors made during a decoction so therefore it is somewhat pointless. Also, the smell of a decoction boiling is like nothing else... delicious and definately makes your brew day a little bit better.

 

[CidahMastah]

Lizardbrew/Northcalais:

Thanks for the replies - I was planning on looking into decoction for my first lagering pilsner or something along those lines, but wasn't sure if it would be worth it. The flavor improvement is "worth" trying in my opinion - at a minimum it peaked my interest, but wanted to be sure I was shooting for a noticable flavor upgrade, and not just efficiency.

 

[shivalotus]

I was brewing a dunkelweizen and wanted to make sure I was getting the malt flavors. I also mash in a 5 gallon igloo cooler so being able to add heat without adding water is a huge benefit.

 

[BrewerinBR]

I definately notice a small increase in efficiency, maybe 5%, but nothing crazy. I usally get 85% compared to 80%. I feel that it is important to do a decoction mash for most german or czech beers, because of the flavor created can't be duplicated any other way. I made an octoberfest as my first all-grain beer using a step infusion mash and the malt profile was boring compared to the malty, bready, and caramel sweet of a traditional german octoberfest. Now I use it for all my bocks, pilseners or any big malty lagers. For an ale, though, I think the yeast and other factors would interferere with the flavors made during a decoction so therefore it is somewhat pointless. Also, the smell of a decoction boiling is like nothing else... delicious and definately makes your brew day a little bit better.

You nailed it LizardBrew83.... the increase in efficiency is great but it is the flavor of the decoction that I was looking for. My first Dark lager was good with an infusion but lacked something and I just couldn't get it until I read Greg Noonans book Brewing New Lagers. Decoction for dark lagers is the real enhancer and not only flavor but in the body and mouth feel. If you use oatmeal to help with body and mouth feel and head retention, as I do, then in a dark lager its the way to go. The decoction will pull the most dextrins from grains so it can be said to be essential. Not so much for ales and the lighter the ale less it would matter. So in order of priority:
1. I just enjoy doing them ... it is fun and a traditional method of brewing.
2. Enhance the flavor of dark lagers
3. Enhance the character of the beer
4. Enhance the efficiency
I do not think it adds that much time or effort it does require a little more monitoring but since I have started this hobby it has become a passion and I love it as much as I love Trout Fishing, so for me that is why I brew at home: Make the best beer I possibly can.

 

[Malticulous]

It will free more starch from the grain and gelitinize it if the grain is not modified enough. With a good crush and today's well modified malt the increase is small.

 

[CidahMastah]

I am curious about the flavor change. I plan on trying it, but at this point, I wouldn't do it unless there was a significant benefit in end product's flavor (tradition and mild efficiency increase aren't incentive enough for me).

I am all for honoring tradition, but most of what I read spoke to the fact that this was done in the past due to poor quality malts with unmodified starches - which isn't the case with today's malts.

I have a direct fired mash tun - so heating my mash isn't an issue - so adding hot wort to do so isn't an advantage for me personally.

 

[MacGruber]

I did a decoction pils and it was incredible. It's still the best beer I've made to this day. The malt really came out and the 5 oz. of mixed noble hops really had a great balance.

 

[CidahMastah]

I did a decoction pils and it was incredible. It's still the best beer I've made to this day. The malt really came out and the 5 oz. of mixed noble hops really had a great balance.

Now that's the encouragement I am looking for - thanks for the input. Was it a recipe from the forum?

I am considering decocotion on pilsner urquell, or similar. I jsut came into a lagering refridge

 

[Airborneguy]

This is seriously encouraging me to do a decoction on my Vienna Lager, which might be my next brew. From what I've been reading, even a single decoction makes a huge difference in flavor.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

Some malters are now offering a selection of undermodified grains. These are what you want for multiple decoctions. I'm not sure about a single decoction. You might be able to use the same grains you have been using.

 

[Malticulous]

For most of my German lagers I do a double decoction now. Dough in in the mid 140's for a rest, pull all the thick (about half the mash) bring it to a boil slowly with no rests, then add it to the main mash for a rest in the high 150's. The next decoction I pull all the thin mash for the mash out. You can play with times and temps to get about any profile. I pull too much and watch the temp as I add it back. I'll add ice if I have too. I can do it in in less than two hours and it boils nearly all of the grain.

 

[Jaimez]

I went from 68-70% to 76-78% with decoction. You also get the flavor you just cant get any other way.
In my opinion some styles just aren't to style without a decoction. Just like an American Hefeweizen is NOT a hefeweizen. If a particular style requires a particular yeast same goes for the decoction in my opinion.

 

[Yooper]

This is seriously encouraging me to do a decoction on my Vienna Lager, which might be my next brew. From what I've been reading, even a single decoction makes a huge difference in flavor.

I'd encourage you to do that! I do a double decoction on Vienna lager (check out Bradsul's recipe- the simplest you can imagine!) and BoPils. If you talk to Denny Conn (who I respect greatly), he'll tell you you won't notice a difference in decocted grainbills vs. those that weren't. I say you certainly can notice a difference- a certain flavor that is present. It's sort of "deeper" if that makes sense.

 

[StMarcos]

I've never done a decoction. I certainly see mixed reviews from those who have done both with the same rests and recipe. Hope to give it a go some day.

 

[shivalotus]

I'd say you should do it at least once. The experience and the aromas are worth it.

 

[MacGruber]

Now that's the encouragement I am looking for - thanks for the input. Was it a recipe from the forum?

I am considering decocotion on pilsner urquell, or similar. I jsut came into a lagering refridge

It wasn't exactly a recipe from the forum. I actually mixed a recipe from homebrew favorites with some information about Sam Adam's Noble Pils that I found here on the forum. I was really into Noble Pils when it hit the market and I was upset when it was out of season. I tried to clone it, and I actually ended up liking my Noble Pils more.

 

[shivalotus]

As an update on this. I just tasted the product of this and I'm very pleased with the results. There's a complexity to the malt that I don't taste in most dunkelweizens. Obviously to know for sure I'd need to brew this again as an infusion but I'm not feeling that ambitious.