Decoction for weizenbock? Or step-mash?

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

I'm about ready to brew a weizenbock inspired by Weihenstephaner Vitus. This will be my 3rd all-grain batch. I'm working off stovetop doing one gallon batches at the moment. I'm wondering if a decoction will be more trouble than it's worth for this. I handled a step mash on my lager pretty well, I just imagine trying to maintain the proper temperatures over two kettles on stovetop will be difficult. Maybe I could enlist a friend to help or just put a cover on the main mash with the heat off and hope for the best? Should I stick with a step mash or take the leap to decoction?

 

[pjj2ba]

At this point, I'd stick with the step mash, as you are comfortable with that. In the future when you have everything nailed down with your process, then try the decoction and see what you think.

 

[bajaedition]

the taste profile of the bock is what the decoction mash affects, a good part of the malt gets carmelized before conversion giving the taste a big bump. that and it's effect on body.
they started decoction mashes before they invented the thermometers, so take it from there. Yes it effects the taste and body of the beer, yes you can use a few other techniques to emulate the effects that are easier.

 

[bajaedition]

here is a good discussion on Decoction mashes from the editor of BYO

http://byo.com/bock/item/537-decoction-mashing-techniques

I think you will make a decision after that, I have tried it a few times and find it very time consuming.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

Just listening to a podcast on decoction with Jamil and John Palmer. They seem to think it's not as essential as it was in the past with less modified malts. I'm going to use the step mash schedule found in radical brewing (Randy Moshier). 111F to 122F to 152F to 170f mash out. I'll post the results when I brew. Thanks for confirming my theory.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

I could be slightly off on those numbers, I don't have the book in front of me at the moment.

 

[pjj2ba]

My typical step mash (heavy pils malt grain bills) is 122, 146, 160, 170F. I vary the times at times depending on the beer style.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

I'll have to double check but I think the 111F rest is specific to wheat based beers. If I remember correctly it's to promote the clove aroma.

 

[Beernik]

I'm all for decoction mashing. Besides the flavor and tradition of it, everyone needs to experience a PITA two hour decoction mash at least once in their lives.

But for a 1 gallon batch, I think I'd skip it. I'd worry about losing too much water due to the extra boiling. I'd step mash and use melanoidin malt until you are doing bigger volumes.

 

[pjj2ba]

I'll have to double check but I think the 111F rest is specific to wheat based beers. If I remember correctly it's to promote the clove aroma.

Correct. Technically it is called a ferulic acid rest - at least when done on wheat heavy beers. This is also the range of a beta-glucan rest, which is good for ingredients that are "gummy" (wheat, rye, unmalted grains) and helps to prevent a stuck sparge

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

Halfway thru the boil at the moment. I used pjj2ba's step mash schedule and I was mostly on point. OG to follow.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

Just finished up. Got a hydrometer reading of 1.100 @ 65F before adding 2 cups of water @ 65F. I'm not sure what that works out to exactly. I don't want to mess with it anymore than I had already. I'm sure I could figure it out if I was better at math.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

So 1 gallon minus 2 cups is 0.875 gallons. I added 2 cups of water to bring it up to 1 gallon even. If anyone can do the math on that if be grateful.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

Take your first gravity reading (only use the last two figures) and multiply it by your volume. Take that total and then divide it by your post top off volume. Example - 1.060 or 60 x 5 = 300. 300 / 6 = 50 or 1.050.

Found this elsewhere on the site. My weizenbock was 1.100 @ 0.875 gallons so,
100 x 0.875 = 87.5. 87.5 / 1 = 87.5 or 1.087-1.088

 

[RonPopeil]

i would vote decoction. i'm doing a weizenbock in the next coming weeks and the current plan is 125F for about 30 minutes and then up to 152 through decoction

 

[skunkfunk]

I did a weizenbock that was supposed to be like Vitus. BIAB, in a kettle, on heat to bring it up to temperature. Turned out kinda strange. Not sure what I'm getting at here, but hope it tastes better than my attempt. Can you post the recipe?

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

This is my recipe for a 1 gallon all grain weizenbock. I made the recipe with brewing software so the specialty malts might seem odd for the style.

2 lbs wheat malt
.5 lb pilsner malt
.75 Vienna malt
.25 crystal 90L
2.5 oz steel cut oats* (forgot to add)
1/8lb rice hulls

Total hops60 min boil)
.5 oz hallertau 4.5% aa pellets
-.25@ 45 mins
-.25@ 15 mins

4.25-4.5 grams of crushed coriander and citrus zest (tangelo and lime) May go heavier on zest, up to 10g. Add @ 5 mins (ended up just zesting 1 tangelo and 1 small lime. Weighing it seemed more trouble than it was worth)

 

[skunkfunk]

Will not the Crystal 90L make it quite a bit darker than vitus? I recall vitus being very pale for a weizenbock.

 

[Roobiedoobiedoo]

It is darker than Vitus but not as dark as Schneider Aventinus. It's currently bubbling away in the carboy. I was mostly after the aroma/flavour of the Vitus (clove & banana) and it's overall smoothness rather than trying to clone it exactly.